Fountain Pen Inks: To Shake or Not, and What's With That Smell?

[biffybeans]

Click Here to Read the Full Blog Post with Photos

 

I am by no means an ink specialist, nor do I play one on television. I'm just a girl that likes to use a fountain pen, play with inks, and share my findings.

 

It all started with this.

 

It's a Lamy Safari showing a major amount of nib-creep and crystallization with Diamine's Pumpkin ink. This is an extreme example most likely caused by my priming the converter a little too far, and then letting the pen sit. If I wipe the nib, I can get most of it off, but a line down the top of the nib does re-appear when I write. A future review will be written about this ink, which I happen to absolutely love.

 

As I sit here at my computer, there are several bottles of ink on my desk waiting to be reviewed and I happen to take notice of sediment developing at the top of one of my 30ml plastic bottles of Diamine. This shot shows the sediment in the bottom of one of the bottles. I believe it's the Pumpkin.

 

Then I start to wonder, because I've never really noticed sediment in any of my inks before and I wonder if it might have something to do with the plastic bottles as all three of my plastic bottle Diamine inks (Maroon, Poppy Red, and Pumpkin) have sediment in them.

 

So I grab my glass bottle of Diamine Imperial Purple and low and behold, more sediment. Lots & lots actually, and it happens to look very reddish in color.

 

I spend a lot of time over on The Fountain Pen Network and I've always read that you aren't supposed to shake yer ink. That sediment is bad, and that it could do horrible nasty things to your pens. That ink is supposed to be made up of particles in suspension...

 

Maybe this is why some people say that their inks don't look the same as other people's. If I didn't shake this ink, I would think that it would be leaning more towards blue than red.

 

Image above is after I shook the heck out of the bottle. Sediment gone!

 

Curious if this sediment issue was evident in inks other than Diamine, I decide to conduct an experiment that consists of me turning over several different brands of ink and seeing if there is any sediment in bottom of the bottle.

 

I checked about 6 bottles of Herbin ink and I found very little to any sediment in any of the bottles. I noticed a little bit in the Eclat de Saphir and Bleu Pervenche.

 

Checked two bottles of Sailor ink - no sediment at all.

 

Checked three bottles of Noodlers. Sediment in all three. Red-Black was the worst, Squeteague the least. BP Black had some.

 

All of my Diamine has sediment - Purple & Pumpkin being the worst and Maroon the least.

 

Curious & Curiouser.

 

The lack of sediment in the Sailor inks got me thinking. Those are some of the smoothest flowing inks I own, but open the bottle and take a whiff and the chemical smell will almost knock you over. Perhaps there is an additive to better keep the ink particulates in suspension.

 

Herbin inks either have just a plain "ink" smell, or they have a nice sweetness about them.

 

The Diamine inks all smell like seawater with a very slight mustiness. Not unpleasant at all.

 

The Noodler's Red-Black & Bulletproof Black only had an inky smell, where when I smelled the Squeteague, I got knocked over with a super strong ammonia smell that stayed in my nose for about an hour. (Reminder - don't smell that ink again or put it in the giveaway box.)

 

So what does this all conclude? I have no idea. These are all highly respected ink companies, and I just can't imagine that they wouldn't thoroughly test their products before putting them to market. Fountain pen inks are water based and unlike India Inks and Calligraphy inks, do not contain shellac that can bind to the inside of a fountain pen and destroy the feed. In theory, FP inks should all be able to be flushed from a pen using plain water. Though I am well aware of certain inks by certain manufactures that have a higher probability of staining than others - but IMHO, staining is different than clogging.

 

I appologize in advance if this post is leaving you with more questions than answers. It just all got me thinking...

 

I keep getting e-mails from people if they can use one kind of ink or another in their fountain pen and I don't really know how to answer them. I would think that if it said fountain pen ink on the label, that it should be safe - BUT - it's ultimately your decision on what inks to put in your pens. Do your research, ask questions, and ultimately remember, YMMV. (Your mileage may vary. )

[Treecat]

I've wondered if you have to shake or swirl saturated inks like Noodlers and Private Reserve to get the colors that they advertise, where less saturated inks like Waterman and Mont Blanc don't need to be shaken (or stirred, with or without a lemon peel...) So, you have an interesting question -- are these particulates necessary for the color, or are they a potential problem that should be left at the bottom of the glass? (just to note.. my only inks are Waterman, Mont Blanc and PR, mostly because they're easily available at a pen store in my area)

[Thornton]

This is really an interesting topic, Stephanie. I feel like each ink brand has their own smell. I really don't care for the smell of Private Reserve. I've never noticed a really unpleasant odor with Diamine. Noodler's takes the cake for strong smelling inks. The UK series (El' Lawrence and Empire Red) in my experience have a strong chemical odor. It doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't want my nose near the bottle for too long. I know some people have stopped using certain inks because of smells. I think if there was a way to control the smells, companies would. I don't know. I look forward to seeing what others have to say.

[mge01park]

Is there an actual Diamine sold in Pumpkin, I had never seen that available for sale as a color.

[biffybeans]

Why yes there is.... and aside from the nib creep issues, it's wonderful...

 

 

Is there an actual Diamine sold in Pumpkin, I had never seen that available for sale as a color.

Edited May 2, 2009 by biffybeans

[Ghost Plane]

I'm sticking with Herbin for any pen that costs between a car payment and a mortgage payment. I'll leave clogged feeds to the semi-disposable crowd.

[mge01park]

Thanks, going to buy some.

 

 

Why yes there is.... and aside from the nib creep issues, it's wonderful...

 

 

Is there an actual Diamine sold in Pumpkin, I had never seen that available for sale as a color.

[Eternally Noodling]

Different inks smell differently because they ARE different. There are different dye families which have different properties including smell. Some companies opt to only make a single dye family and no others because ink is an accessory to their product - not the product itself. Other companies make ink, not pens...so the ink IS their product and thus it is not "just an afterthought accessory in some nice packaging that must be subservient to the pen". That is why the selection is greater with the ink companies - they offer far greater choice to the user of ink because they have a wider selection that includes not just one single dye family...but MANY. Every vintage ink except carmines has eventually exhibited sediments (carmines like Shah's Rose you can hold up to a light bulb and you'll see what I mean - even 1890s carmines can still be found today without sediments!). Some inks respond to shaking with increased shading - others respond to it by re-establishing their structure in the water lattice, and still others do nothing. Shaking Shah's Rose or Nikita will never change it - but shaking "The Color of the King" after being in a hot room for 4 years or so will make it a darker color (heat can cause some inks to form what appear to be sediments by distilling...evaporating/condensing them in the bottle over and over again - this is most pronounced in certain vintage 1940s-50s inks that can not be reconstituted made by a company that once upon a time was based in New York...they can be seen at many pen shows as "half and half" - half clear and half dark).

 

If you buy a pen to use as a pen (what a concept!), then you should feel free to use any ink that pleases you. The pen is a writing tool, and the fountain pen is the most versatile of all writing tools with the greatest possibilities of different colors, utilities, and shading...when the user feels free enough to utilize the designs greatest capabilities.

 

If you buy a pen as a museum piece - it should be locked up and if ever filled...filled only with water. You should also remove any rubber sac from such a museum piece pen - or the gases the sac releases will discolor your museum piece.

 

I don't own any museum piece pens and won't own a pen if I believe it is too weak and fragile to ever USE as a pen!

 

Just my $0.02

[Ginnievere]

I've also got Poppy Red (which I adore), and it always has a slight bit of sediment at the bottom whenever I go to fill a pen.

[eilu]

I always give all my inks a shake, because some settling will occur over time (I've had a rotring rapidograph ink separate to its compoents- that was very, very old ink!)

[PJohnP]

Biff :

 

 

A lot of interesting questions, perhaps not as interesting answers...

 

That shot of the crystallised Diamine Pumpkin ink on the nib is a good indicator that :

• the seated pen cap isn't sealing thus letting excessive air at the nib;
• the ink has been "reduced" by evaporation;
• the pen was left unused for a heckuva long time; and/or,
• there's something wrong with the ink.

Or maybe all of the above.

 

The whole issue of sediment in ink is a tricky one.

 

Speaking in the abstract here, given that there are folks who can take exception to specific examples, if a hypothetical ink's producing sediments sitting around for a relatively short time, the ink's either breaking down chemically to produce the sediments or it was a fully saturated solution of whatever the precipitate is (see also postscript on "saturated"). Neither alternative is a good one, as the ink's not going to age very well, and one is likely to see problems on nibs. Now, if the hypothetical ink's intended to be a suspension of very fine particles (e.g., India ink), then this isn't such an amazing issue, but if the hypothetical ink's intended for fountain pen use, it might well pose problems both chemically and from particulate deposits in the pen system (i.e., storage, feed, nib).

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Put bluntly, there will be some inks that are not chemically compatible with some pens. I could add to that, Put even more bluntly, some inks will crud up some pens.

 

That said, if the case is that the hypothetical ink is indeed a fully saturated solution, then slightly diluting the ink with distilled, or at least, filtered water renders the problem less of an issue. If the hypothetical ink is breaking down chemically, that's a much more significant issue. The causes of chemical breakdown could be heat, light, contamination with other chemicals from a pen being filled/dipped, addition of surfactants by the user (e.g., dish soap), or dilution with contaminated water. For the most part, chemical breakdown of ink components is likely a non-reversible reaction; irreversible for the ink user to easily try to address, at least.

 

The trick of diluting the ink is that, pretty obviously for the knowledgeable ink users here at FPN, dilution will change the degree of feathering, breakthrough, nib creep, etc., as well as possibly altering the shading and colour. That's why I used the words "slightly diluting" above.

 

Now, if there's a mort o' sediment forming in an ink, that's a distinct problem. I had this happen with ****** a bit back, forming a distinct layer of sediment/crud in the bottoms of the ink bottle, and I decided to just dump the bottle. I couldn't tell if I was getting sedimentation from chemical issues, moldy junk and sediment, or a breakdown of some other kind, and, frankly, for the cost of a bottle of ink, I wasn't inclined to centrifuge the materials and run some esoteric analysis on it. Out it went.

 

Others will point out that ink should be stored carefully. My inks are in a desk drawer within a climate controlled building, so they don't get overheated, frozen, zapped with high UV (I live at 2,200m/7,200 ft altitude), are kept tightly capped/closed, and I surely don't mix the inks in the bottles. Given that I'm "detail oriented" and know chemistry from my professional life all too well, my pens get very well flushed and cleaned pretty regularly. So, I'd have to believe that the ink broke down for some other reason, even if I can't conclusively prove that reason. Again, out it went.

 

Personally, if an ink is forming a quite distinct sediment layer on the bottom, not just a loose dusting but a discernibly thick layer, and the ink has been appropriately stored, I'd be concerned about using that ink in one of my better pens.

 

YMMV, and automobile manufacturer sales incentives will likely be very thin on the ground in the next few months...

 

 

John P.

 

 

P.S. For those people who have more geekish tendencies, let's define a term or two... The term "saturated" in chemistry and chemical engineering is usually in the context of a material dissolved in a solvent liquid, not the more common FPN usage for colour saturation. A solution is considered "saturated" when no more material can be dissolved whatsoever in the solvent at the specific temperature and pressure condition existing. If the temperature is dropped, the dissolved material will often precipitate out from the solvent, but can sometimes become what is called a "super-saturated solution" where even small changes in conditions or external effects such as shock or other small particles dropped into the super-saturated solution can result in rapid precipitation.

Edited May 2, 2009 by PJohnP

[all my hues]

I always shake my inks before using them. I've found a HUGE difference -- esp with Noodler's -- between shaking it (the real color, as advertised, comes out) and not shaking it (usually a lighter, sometimes quite different color!).

[biffybeans]

For the record, from this moment forward, I am becoming an ink shaker.

[Inka]

Some people say to never shake bottled inks, that when opened immediately afterward the bubbles begin to pop hastening evaporation and thus thickens the ink faster.

I personally shake all my inks as well, crack the cap a touch to let the bubbles settle and pop.

Like others have said, my Noodler's inks seem to behave and look much better when shaken first and my Polar Brown especially has a white sediment that settles to the bottom and needs shaking.

With Noodler's, I normally shake vigorously with the bottle inverted, to catch the sediment off the bottom, without loosening the cap afterward, then waiting many minutes for bubbles to settle before a fill .

After seeing so many of my inks look dull without shaking first, some even flow differently [for better or worse] so I always shake mine now prior to a fill.

 

I like your examples of how so many different inks look and behave shaken and unshaken.

This seems like a good idea for a sub-forum topic, so people could go straight there to veiw or add comparisons just like this.

Great topic and information.

Thanks!

[penswrite]

well, for my $.01

plus, your $.02

we could have a

whopping amount of success. I scent my / smell the scents/of, and notice my favorite inks.

 

success...

 

ahhh? the whiffof ink.

 

thanks foryour thoughts, in your thoughtful post,

__________________

 

(ps. this is neither a monitary inducemnent, nor an offer of gambling. (Ha!)) Ink isn't for money or fame or anything other than fun--and profit.

[penswrite]

plus my $0.01* see pm and post

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

__________________________

Different inks smell differently because they ARE different. There are different dye families which have different properties including smell. Some companies opt to only make a single dye family and no others because ink is an accessory to their product - not the product itself. Other companies make ink, not pens...so the ink IS their product and thus it is not "just an afterthought accessory in some nice packaging that must be subservient to the pen". That is why the selection is greater with the ink companies - they offer far greater choice to the user of ink because they have a wider selection that includes not just one single dye family...but MANY. Every vintage ink except carmines has eventually exhibited sediments (carmines like Shah's Rose you can hold up to a light bulb and you'll see what I mean - even 1890s carmines can still be found today without sediments!). Some inks respond to shaking with increased shading - others respond to it by re-establishing their structure in the water lattice, and still others do nothing. Shaking Shah's Rose or Nikita will never change it - but shaking "The Color of the King" after being in a hot room for 4 years or so will make it a darker color (heat can cause some inks to form what appear to be sediments by distilling...evaporating/condensing them in the bottle over and over again - this is most pronounced in certain vintage 1940s-50s inks that can not be reconstituted made by a company that once upon a time was based in New York...they can be seen at many pen shows as "half and half" - half clear and half dark).

 

If you buy a pen to use as a pen (what a concept!), then you should feel free to use any ink that pleases you. The pen is a writing tool, and the fountain pen is the most versatile of all writing tools with the greatest possibilities of different colors, utilities, and shading...when the user feels free enough to utilize the designs greatest capabilities.

 

If you buy a pen as a museum piece - it should be locked up and if ever filled...filled only with water. You should also remove any rubber sac from such a museum piece pen - or the gases the sac releases will discolor your museum piece.

 

I don't own any museum piece pens and won't own a pen if I believe it is too weak and fragile to ever USE as a pen!

 

Just my $0.02

 

 

 

[Inka]

Different inks smell differently because they ARE different... Some companies opt to only make a single dye family and no others because ink is an accessory to their product - not the product itself. Other companies make ink, not pens...so the ink IS their product and thus it is not "just an afterthought accessory in some nice packaging that must be subservient to the pen"... Every vintage ink except carmines has eventually exhibited sediments (carmines like Shah's Rose you can hold up to a light bulb and you'll see what I mean - even 1890s carmines can still be found today without sediments!)... Shaking Shah's Rose or Nikita will never change it... If you buy a pen to use as a pen (what a concept!), then you should feel free to use any ink that pleases you... when the user feels free enough to utilize the designs greatest capabilities... I don't own any museum piece pens and won't own a pen if I believe it is too weak and fragile to ever USE as a pen!

 

Just my $0.02

Well said and very informative, not just what I've quoted but all of it!

 

I haven't yet bothered to stick my nose up to my inks, don't buy perfumed inks either, so unless they smell like skunk when opened or they're very old and I'm looking for mold I don't much care how they smell, just as long as they perform. If not for Noodler's inks in my fountain pens I most certainly wouldn't use a fountain pen for all my writing, using the Eternal ["bulletproof"'] inks in my daily carry pen at all times.

 

I had noticed that my only carmines, Nikita [don't own Shahs' Rose] and PR Tanzanite always look the same shaken or not. I often hold them up to bright light, unshaken and inverted, and they never have anything at the bottom of the bottles [didn't know why, until now]. I no longer shake my Nikita, now that you mention it, since I've found I don't need to. I don't shake the PR Tanz either mostly because I no longer use it.

 

Feeling free, as you say, to use any ink I like, I prefer to use Noodler's inks over any others. I personally like the plain white boxes with [to me anyway] the wonderful "pen & ink" type of fine artwork; they're actually my favorite boxes and I keep every one I get. The Noodler's bottles are the best too, IMO, the labeling having fantastic artwork printed with [from what I recall] the companies' own inks.

 

I don't own any museum pieces either, although I do own some antiques that probably belong in a museum [not pens] but not one that I don't use on occasion. I buy a pen because I plan on using it and if it doesn't feel right to me or work with my favorite ink then it's not for me and sits stored and mostly unused. I admit to trying many ink brands, yet I also admit that 98%+ of the inks I have now are all made by Noodler's, mostly in the 4.5oz eye-dropper bottles which I personally prefer [i love the rubber seals/gaskets in the e-d bottles and the glass eye-droppers get used frequently too].

 

Despite my living in a very humid and often extremely hot semi-tropical climate, I also prefer the Noodler's Polar inks to any others I have. If the paper I use doesn't like Noodler's Polar inks then I use different paper. If my fountain pen doesn't flow the way I like with Noodler's inks then I adjust the pen nib to do so. I have a leather briefcase where I store my inks now, in case of a hurricane evacuation or traveling it's ready to go in an instant. When I open it all I see are pen tools, a few cheap fountain pens [filled with Noolder's inks] and the white Noodler's boxes. Some Noodler's boxes have bottles that have never been opened, such as certain favorites like Polar Blue/Black/Brown held in reserve along with 2 bottles [one unopened] of Blue Ghost and a pen I use for nothing else but Blue Ghost. The others are Nikita, Borealis and a bottle of Heart Of Darkness, all in the 4.5oz e-d bottles with the free Preppy e-d conversion pens inside.

 

The cartridge inks I have are all kept in a drawer now and so far have only gotten used for testing and for ink reviews, then I don't usually buy more. The only other two bottled inks I have sit unused now, one being PR Tanzanite that I'd bought before I'd discovered Noodler's inks and the other a bottle of Levenger Cobalt Blue that sits on its' ink stand on my roll-top desk for display mostly and it's still 3/4 full. Now when I consider a new ink purchase, I often look at other brands and color swatches, love looking at the written reviews, but when it comes time to buy I've been buying nothing but Noodler's inks. I won't buy or use any fountain pen that won't at some point have some Noodler's ink inside. For daily carry I use Noodler's and only Noodler's, that's my preference.

 

That's my $.02 cents, for what it's worth.

[npcole]

Here's my £0.01

 

I used to keep all my inks on the fireplace in my office, but I realised it was hit by a lot of sunlight in the afternoon and that some of the inks were thickening. A hint was the condensation on the lid when I went to fill my pens. I've since moved them all to a cool desk drawer, and they seem to be lasting much better.

 

I don't think I would want to use any ink where there was Stuff In the Bottle that needed shaking - even getting relatively "well behaved" inks flushed out of a fountain pen takes more work than I really enjoy.

 

Cautionary tale: I discovered a pen that I had flushed and put away about a year ago recently that had been used with a very saturated ink. After months of just sitting in a drawer, the red dye from the ink that had not been fully flushed had leached out from the feed and formed a horrible, sticky mess all of the nib. It took two days of flushing and soaking to clean up the mess - all for a pen I thought I had properly cleaned and put away.

 

The Diamine and Waterman inks that I use as standard never seem to need shaking, and I can't see any sediments in any of the more modern, saturated inks that I have either. But if any of the bottles ever did show any signs of that, I think I would throw them away, or use them only with dip pens.

 

Anything else seems to me to be asking for trouble and pain.

 

Best wishes,

 

N

[FrankB]

Biffy, for what it is worth I shake inks, too. I usually look for sediment before shaking. I like to use J. Herbin ink in my piston fill and vintage pens. Yet, I have found that my beloved Vert Olive does need to be shaken on occasion as it deposits sediment. For me, it is just life with FP's.

[lmederos]

Well, I used to be one of those who would never shake the bottles.

 

Then I found that Diamine Sepia was actually a very different color than what I was getting --- until I shook the bottle.

 

Now I usually:

 

1. don't let my ink bottles sit around unused for a long time

2. try to remember to check the contents before I shake them

3. shake them vigorously

4. let the bottle settle for a minute or 2 before I open it to fill the pen, thus have had no trouble with bubbles bursting

 

 

Additionally, I use antibacterial/antifungal additive on my inks. I have had no problems with the ink flow (the SterilInk additive does not affect the flow). It can be purchaed from http://www.tryphon.it/catalogo.htm for an insignificant amount.