Y O L Grand Viceroy Victorians 1999 Vs 2010

[hari317]

I had purchased a new 2010 Grand Victorian last year. Last week, I bought a second hand Grand Victorian from a seller in England. I found some interesting subtle differences in the pattern and workmanship and I attempt to document these by means of this review.

 

The older one dates from 1999, denoted by the Z date code.

 

I found that the repoussage on the older one is much more pronounced and yields a fuller visual effect. The chasing on the older one is not severe as on the newer one.

 

The newer one on the left, older on the right:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7822.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7824.jpg

 

The clip engraving is better defined on the new one:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7825.jpg

 

Body details, new to the left:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7826.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7827.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7828.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7829.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7830.jpg

 

Hallmarks on the 2010 pen:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7831.jpg

 

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7832.jpg

 

Hallmarks on the 1999 pen, they are stamped hallmarks, not laser engraved:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7833.jpg

 

A closeup of the peculiar additional mark on the cap, I think it says "STH" with "J & H" underneath. Any idea what this is?

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7834.jpg

 

The last symbol is the Millennium mark:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7835.jpg

 

A closeup of the Millennium mark(to celebrate the year 2000, used in years 1999 and 2000):

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn307/hari-b/YOLGrandVictorianComparison/IMG_7836.jpg

 

 

The nib and feed remain the same, no other differences. The writing is typical YoL, I have nothing to add in this department from my previous YoL reviews.

 

I hope you will find this comparison useful.

 

Cheers!

Hari

 

References:

 

Date Codes

Commemorative and other Marks

[jar]

Neat. Since each pen is the individual work of one craftsman I've found that details like chasing and repoussage do vary from pen to pen. I bet that the folk working at YoL could take one look at a pen and tell you which craftsman worked on it.

[PAKMAN]

Very interesting! I wonder if they are using the same tooling to make the patterns or how often they have to replace the tooling?

[hari317]

Neat. Since each pen is the individual work of one craftsman I've found that details like chasing and repoussage do vary from pen to pen. I bet that the folk working at YoL could take one look at a pen and tell you which craftsman worked on it.

 

Thanks!, Jar, Is it possible the mystery mark is actually the personal mark of the craftsman who worked on it?

 

Very interesting! I wonder if they are using the same tooling to make the patterns or how often they have to replace the tooling?

 

Thanks! Perry, I believe the chasing is done by hand as this video seems to suggest:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/B2GYLgb4gEE

Edited September 17, 2012 by hari317

[Russ]

Thanks, Hari. Indeed, each is unique inasmuch as they are handmade. That said, I really prefer the older, deeper work.

[Ghost Plane]

+1 for the older having that indefinable something.

[hari317]

On a side note, has anyone come across a Grand Viceroy that is earlier than 1999?

[Ghost Plane]

On a side note, has anyone come across a Grand Viceroy that is earlier than 1999?

The letter code on mine appears to be an "h". That's 2007 if I have my date marks right.

[jar]

Neat. Since each pen is the individual work of one craftsman I've found that details like chasing and repoussage do vary from pen to pen. I bet that the folk working at YoL could take one look at a pen and tell you which craftsman worked on it.

 

Thanks!, Jar, Is it possible the mystery mark is actually the personal mark of the craftsman who worked on it?

 

Very interesting! I wonder if they are using the same tooling to make the patterns or how often they have to replace the tooling?

 

Thanks! Perry, I believe the chasing is done by hand as this video seems to suggest:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/B2GYLgb4gEE

 

No, it is a jewelery company in GB IIRC and sold pens and pencils under their name that were made by YoL, much like Symthson. The J&H is their hallmark.

 

I think at times they did the engraving on both pens and pencils for YoL.

Edited September 17, 2012 by jar

[Windycityhorse]

1347912432[/url]' post='2463615']

On a side note, has anyone come across a Grand Viceroy that is earlier than 1999?

 

I cannot be sure, Hari, but there appears to be a 1992 on US EBay right now (261098810210). I'm by no means an expert, but going off of some of your prior research in Yard o Led. The older ones are so appealing, I'm seriously thinking of bidding on this one myself.

[shrujaya]

Hi Hari...great looking pens...too many symbols on the body maan...look like secret codes...MI5 might help...ha ha ha...was this the YOL you were talking about a couple of days back? A ha...

 

Jai

[hari317]

 

No, it is a jewelery company in GB IIRC and sold pens and pencils under their name that were made by YoL, much like Symthson. The J&H is their hallmark.

 

I think at times they did the engraving on both pens and pencils for YoL.

Thank you. Can you share more about this company? In the meanwhile, before i saw your reply, I sent off an enquiry email to the Birmingham assay office witgh the pictures, I will share the reply here if any.

 

YOL seems to have outsourced some aspects of their pen making from time to time.

 

 

I cannot be sure, Hari, but there appears to be a 1992 on US EBay right now (261098810210). I'm by no means an expert, but going off of some of your prior research in Yard o Led. The older ones are so appealing, I'm seriously thinking of bidding on this one myself.

 

Hi, that is a nice pen, but pls be aware that the pen in the listing is the Standard Viceroy, not Grand. It also has the import mark (delta) which indicates the pen was made outside of Britain.

 

Hi Hari...great looking pens...too many symbols on the body maan...look like secret codes...MI5 might help...ha ha ha...was this the YOL you were talking about a couple of days back? A ha...

 

Hi Jai, yes this was the pen I was talking about.

 

Best

Hari

[Windycityhorse]

Hi, that is a nice pen, but pls be aware that the pen in the listing is the Standard Viceroy, not Grand. It also has the import mark (delta) which indicates the pen was made outside of Britain.

 

Thanks, Hari. I'm still learning. Does the fact these pens are sometimes made outside of Britain make them less desirable? I love silver pens, especially older ones. And as you say, the detailing on these older ones are more defined.

[hari317]

Does the fact these pens are sometimes made outside of Britain make them less desirable? I love silver pens, especially older ones. And as you say, the detailing on these older ones are more defined.

 

Not at all, in my view. In fact, I have found better and more detailed (in my view) Guilloche work on the import marked examples that are in my possession.

 

I just added the import bit as a piece of seldom talked about information in the face of the marketing copy of YOL. Also the Standard size is much thinner than the grand version.

 

Best

Hari

[rokurinpapa]

Thanks for very interesting comparison. Especially the Millennium mark interests me very much.

 

rokurinpapa

[jar]

No, it is a jewelery company in GB IIRC and sold pens and pencils under their name that were made by YoL, much like Symthson. The J&H is their hallmark.

 

I think at times they did the engraving on both pens and pencils for YoL.

Thank you. Can you share more about this company? In the meanwhile, before i saw your reply, I sent off an enquiry email to the Birmingham assay office witgh the pictures, I will share the reply here if any.

 

YOL seems to have outsourced some aspects of their pen making from time to time.

 

 

 

Not much. I first came across the hallmark on some pencils and IIRC there was a question about whether J&H made the pencil bodies for YoL or YoL made the pencils that were then sold and stamped by J&H.

[Montblanc owner and lover]

by the way the 2 are nices

[hari317]

 

No, it is a jewelery company in GB IIRC and sold pens and pencils under their name that were made by YoL, much like Symthson. The J&H is their hallmark.

 

I think at times they did the engraving on both pens and pencils for YoL.

Thank you. Can you share more about this company? In the meanwhile, before i saw your reply, I sent off an enquiry email to the Birmingham assay office witgh the pictures, I will share the reply here if any.

 

The Birmingham Assay office have said the following about the J&H mark in response to my query:

 

Hi Hari,

 

 

 

Thank you for your email enquiry.

 

 

 

The initials J&H are not part of the hallmark, these initials must have been added at a later date and by whom we would not know?? we would not have put that on as this part of the mark is what is known as a ‘minor mark’ used on removable parts, the complete hallmark is on with the Yard O Led initials , you can see that the hallmark that we have applied was using laser technology, the initials that were added were struck so that mark ‘J&H’ is in no way part of the hallmark.

 

 

 

I would think it is some ones initials that has struck it at a later date after the hallmarking had been completed and the pen sold, for some reason?? Sorry but I have no idea as to what or who the initials belong to.

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

xxx

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sir,

 

I have attached three pictures of a Yard O Led fountain pen made in 1999. The cap of this pen contains a third peculiar hallmark(J&H) in addition to the 925 marks, I hope to gain some information about the same.

 

Thanks!

 

Regards,

Hari

India.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2012 by hari317

[Sherwood Forester]

Thanks Hari for your review/comparison and those lovely photos. I found all of it very interesting and informative, The J&H mark was a surprise, I bet.

 

I enjoyed the other contributions, too, particularly from JAR (Hello to you again!) who as usual has a store of pen knowledge.

 

As a lover of Y-O-L instruments I hope I can one day acquire an older version to supplement my own recent (this year) Viceroy Grand Victorian. Such a gorgeous and classy item, it is arguably the favourite of all my pens, perhaps only rivalled by (surprisingly for a silver pen afficionado) a newly bought model (Scribblings) featuring Irish Bog Oak, truly unique.

 

Keep the good stuff coming Hari, JAR and the rest.

 

The Forester

[efchem]

On a side note, has anyone come across a Grand Viceroy that is earlier than 1999?

 

I know this is an older thread, but I just recently acquired a Grand Viceroy Barley finish and when looking to figure out the date it was produced, came across this thread. Mine has a date code of 1997 (X).

 

Erick