Jump to content

Ebonite Feed


smodak

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 32
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • hari317

    3

  • Dillo

    2

  • Blade Runner

    2

  • MHfernandes

    2

Current MB feeds are made of plastic, what exact plastic? I do not know.

 

IMO they are not inferior, they seem to do their job well with the modern nibs with which they are fitted.

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe there are various factors in play;

 

Firstly, it's desirable to have the correct era feeder that matches the pen, nib, cap, barrel, piston filling system/threads...etc. Often people send their pens in for some repair that has nothing to do with the nib or feeder, but the feeders are replaced as part of the routine work performed on the pen. So the customer ends up, say with a 70's pen, that might have a new cap but the feeder was replaced, leaving them with a mixed era pen. To purists, this is an issue that has nothing to do with the pen's performance, but more to do with the correctness of the pen's components.

 

Another aspect is there is often the preception that change comes due to economical reasons. The ebonite feeders were more expensive to make and required more craft, while the new plastic ones are cast. To take another example, car door handles used to be real metal that's often chrome plated and had real mechanical connection to the locking mechanism, now however, they're a piece of plastic that's painted and often electronically connected to the locks via cable wires and solenoids, or more recently electrical wires. It's undoubtly cheaper, hence it's viewed as a change made due to an accountant's agenda vs, an engineer's objective, this is just a general view, irrespective of the reality.

 

For what it's worth, that's my take on it.

 

 

cheers

 

Wael

“Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much as above.

 

Ebonite feeds were hand cut and finished while plastic feeds are molded and in the past the human element added to the personality of the pen. My guess is that the modern ebonite feeds though are cut and finished by a laser, not a file or saw in the hands of a craftsman.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I read that making Ebonite involves an expensive manfacturering process that involves corrosive chemicals. I believe that may have caused Montblanc to switch to using Plastic feeds. When you are looking to reduce the overhead cost in manufacturering a product the 'old school' process are normally the first to be replaced with a modern and more efficient methods. I am disappointed at MB that even after having resorted to using plastic feeds they do not pass the savings to their customers. However once their products were considered "Luxury items" there is no desire to reduce the prices on their line of fountain pens.

Edited by Mikale

Best Regards,

Mikale

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I own MB146's with both types of feeds. I cannot tell a practical difference.

same for me on my 146s and my 149s

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello out there.

 

a note from the small scale pen maker and pen restorer.

 

1. No, ebonite feeds are NOT superior to Plastic feeds. (sometimes)

take a Schmidt Feed - the big one - take a Pelikan Feed - they are just fantastic among many others.

Montblanc 149 and 146 Feeds are outstanding.

 

BUT there are so many ugly and badly working plastic feeds around.

 

2. There IS one major advantage over plastic - you cannot tune a plastic feed.

An ebonite feed, I can sand and mill, I can bend, I can increase or decrease inkflow.

 

3. NO, inkfeeds from ebonite cannot be done by Laser - its a time consuming work on the CNC lathe and mill, using metal tools.

I have assisted to the make of a new feed,in fact to two already - and it simply takes a lot of machine time -

and the abrasive ebonite eats the tools. So you have to change tools very often.

 

4. NO corrosive chemicals involved. The switch to plastic has surely had economical reasons.

A modern ebonite feed might easyly cost 10 Euro in production. thats quite a lot to save by using a plastic feed.

 

Best regards

Tom

Tom Westerich

 

See whats newly listed on PENBOARD.DE

 

email: twesterich@penboard.de

Abruzzo/Italy and Hamburg/Germany

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello out there.

 

a note from the small scale pen maker and pen restorer.

 

1. No, ebonite feeds are NOT superior to Plastic feeds. (sometimes)

take a Schmidt Feed - the big one - take a Pelikan Feed - they are just fantastic among many others.

Montblanc 149 and 146 Feeds are outstanding.

 

BUT there are so many ugly and badly working plastic feeds around.

 

2. There IS one major advantage over plastic - you cannot tune a plastic feed.

An ebonite feed, I can sand and mill, I can bend, I can increase or decrease inkflow.

 

3. NO, inkfeeds from ebonite cannot be done by Laser - its a time consuming work on the CNC lathe and mill, using metal tools.

I have assisted to the make of a new feed,in fact to two already - and it simply takes a lot of machine time -

and the abrasive ebonite eats the tools. So you have to change tools very often.

 

4. NO corrosive chemicals involved. The switch to plastic has surely had economical reasons.

A modern ebonite feed might easyly cost 10 Euro in production. thats quite a lot to save by using a plastic feed.

 

Best regards

Tom

 

Isn't ebonite just a hard rubber? How does it wear down metal tooling so fast?

fpn_1451747045__img_1999-2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The usual myth is: Ebonite is better, because it has a different structure, it is more "spongy" than plastic and thus absorbes and delivers the ink much better. This improves not only ink flow, but also prevents that the nib is drying out and so - with an ebonite feed - you can start to write at once.

 

Well, my problem is: I'm neither a chemist nor a physicist, so I don't have any clue if this is true or just an urban legend. But when I compare my pens with plastic feeds and ebonite feeds I can't tell a difference - they both can dry out, they both are capable of delivering perfect ink flow, they both look similar. I prefer ebonite feeds, because on some plastic feeds you can see the point where the injection has broken off and that looks ugly. It's boils down to cosmetics for me...

Greetings,

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I think most of my feeds from the semi-flex, maxi-semi-flex era (German) pre'66**,and the few full flexible nibs were on ebonite feeds, that was better for nibs that needed more ink.

 

There seems...and I'm sort of 'new' at looking at older nibs....30's and before, but the collector slits are much less in the era of super flex times. In fact I'd wondered how come such feeds looked totally flat.

(Not it was not stupidity of old time Engineers; a nice ivory slap sick worked wonders.)

 

Is plastic feeds a reason why we have so few pens now made with semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nibs now?

The more flexible vintage nibs demand too much ink, for fast delivery?

The less flexible modern ones need less ink at any one time???

 

I am not sure if Aurora still uses ebonite. I understand it is still possible to get a semi-flex nib from them.

 

 

I am pre '50's ignorant; with MB.

 

MB had the '50's-65 and the '66-75 nibs the first were according to Max's chart more flexi, the second batch were also described as some what flexible.

 

There appears if I remember my reading a feed change after '75 (the last of the semi-flex) and after 90-91 by MB.

I have the luck to have a nice semi-flex '55 MB 234 1/2 Deluxe.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that there are several factors at play. First of all, ebonite is favored because it is easily wettable with water and other water based solutions (think ink). Water won't bead up on a rough ebonite surface. Plastic feeds, from what I have heard, need to be treated with an etchant or something to achieve the same feature. Also, there is the idea of more workmanship. It's harder to machine ebonite, because of the fillers that are used. The tools need to be kept sharp, and each piece of feed needs to be individually cut. I'm pretty sure that there is no such thing as injection molding for ebonite, but it sure exists for a plastic feed. Lastly, because these ebonite feeds are made on an individual basis, that too increases its desireability. Would you rather have a pen such as a Montblanc made from machine created parts, hand assembled, or would you rather have an urushi Nakaya, with its urushi painted on by hand? All those factors I think contribute to the desirability of an ebonite feed in a pen, but then again, most of my highend pens, all $100+ in price, have plastic feeds. The one pen I do have with an ebonite feed is my ebonite Ranga pen, that cost me less than $20. :roflmho:

The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.

Blaise Pascal

fpn_1336709688__pen_01.jpg

Tell me about any of your new pens and help with fountain pen quality control research!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really can't tell the difference in performance using either type of feed. However, I did notice that that my ebonite feeds tend to err...for want of a better term, 'pick up' the colour of the ink used particularly inks with sheen. I won't say that it's staining but close. The ebonite feed on a Signum now has an obvious reddish shine when viewed at certain angles under bright light after being inked with one of the Sailor LE inks...can't remember which though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've found no difference in performance of feeds between ebonite and plastic types.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps some people rave about ebonite because it is less common, older technology, and they feel the need to feel superior about something simply because it's older.

Edited by Blade Runner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps some people rave about ebonite because it is less common, older technology, and they feel the need to feel superior about something simply because it's older.

Isn't that the whole lot of us here? Fountain pens are older :roflmho: :roflmho:

The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.

Blaise Pascal

fpn_1336709688__pen_01.jpg

Tell me about any of your new pens and help with fountain pen quality control research!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a real difference between ebonite and regular plastic. They behave differently in the presence of a liquid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting

 

The smooth surface of regular plastic repels water and is given a rough finish to allow the ink to flow properly. This means that if you manually adjust a plastic feed by cutting the channel with a knife or similar, there is a chance the surface will repel ink and the feed will no longer work.

 

As ebonite wets regardless of finish, you can fiddle with the feed all you like. This is why the noodlers flex line of pens uses an ebonite feed; the pens can require some major tuning in terms of ink flow so cutting into the feed is a common adjustment.

 

If such a feed was made of plastic it would be far less reliable. Of course, this is only an advantage of ebonite if the feed fails to work properly in the first place. Otherwise there would be no need for adjustment.

Edited by 691175002
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Hello out there.

 

a note from the small scale pen maker and pen restorer.

 

1. No, ebonite feeds are NOT superior to Plastic feeds. (sometimes)

take a Schmidt Feed - the big one - take a Pelikan Feed - they are just fantastic among many others.

Montblanc 149 and 146 Feeds are outstanding.

 

BUT there are so many ugly and badly working plastic feeds around.

 

2. There IS one major advantage over plastic - you cannot tune a plastic feed.

An ebonite feed, I can sand and mill, I can bend, I can increase or decrease inkflow.

 

3. NO, inkfeeds from ebonite cannot be done by Laser - its a time consuming work on the CNC lathe and mill, using metal tools.

I have assisted to the make of a new feed,in fact to two already - and it simply takes a lot of machine time -

and the abrasive ebonite eats the tools. So you have to change tools very often.

 

4. NO corrosive chemicals involved. The switch to plastic has surely had economical reasons.

A modern ebonite feed might easyly cost 10 Euro in production. thats quite a lot to save by using a plastic feed.

 

Best regards

Tom

 

Isn't ebonite just a hard rubber? How does it wear down metal tooling so fast?

 

 

I think it is ebony wood (hard dark brown wood) I'm not sure if the material really is rubber.

 

Regards.

Edited by MHfernandes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is ebony wood (hard dark brown wood) I'm not sure if the material really is rubber.

 

Regards.

 

:W2FPN:

 

You can take our word that the feeder material is Hard Rubber, NOT wood.

 

Hari

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello out there.

 

a note from the small scale pen maker and pen restorer.

 

1. No, ebonite feeds are NOT superior to Plastic feeds. (sometimes)

take a Schmidt Feed - the big one - take a Pelikan Feed - they are just fantastic among many others.

Montblanc 149 and 146 Feeds are outstanding.

 

BUT there are so many ugly and badly working plastic feeds around.

 

2. There IS one major advantage over plastic - you cannot tune a plastic feed.

An ebonite feed, I can sand and mill, I can bend, I can increase or decrease inkflow.

 

3. NO, inkfeeds from ebonite cannot be done by Laser - its a time consuming work on the CNC lathe and mill, using metal tools.

I have assisted to the make of a new feed,in fact to two already - and it simply takes a lot of machine time -

and the abrasive ebonite eats the tools. So you have to change tools very often.

 

4. NO corrosive chemicals involved. The switch to plastic has surely had economical reasons.

A modern ebonite feed might easyly cost 10 Euro in production. thats quite a lot to save by using a plastic feed.

 

Best regards

Tom

 

Isn't ebonite just a hard rubber? How does it wear down metal tooling so fast?

 

 

I think it is ebony wood (hard dark brown wood) I'm not sure if the material really is rubber.

 

Regards.

 

Ebonite is a man-made alternative to ebony.

The pen I write with, is the pen I use to sign my name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...