Help Me Choose/create My Ink For Drawing

November 10, 2011

I need to find or create through mixing, the perfect blue ink for sketching. Here is what I am looking for:

1. Indigo. Meaning a blue on the edge of violet and dark.

2. Water resistant. Used for pen and wash technique where I use a wet brush to spread the color so I can't have it too waterproof.

3. Halfway fade and UV resistant so my little transparent cube sketches can last 1000 years.

4. Saturated so there is enough color to spread and a dark line will remain afterwards.

5. Not too dry and preferably wet.

I currently make an Indigo mix from Waterman Florida blue mixed with Havana Brown. However, as good as it is for writing, it is too weak for sketching in my opinion. Basically, if the right color isn't available, I could use two inks, one a primary or violet blue and one a reddish brown that would, when combined, give the right color and qualitites.

November 11, 2011

I was really close to saying "Noodler's Kung te Cheng" from Goulet pens, but it's 100% waterproof, might be handy for mixing though. Perhaps Noodler's Van Gogh Starry Night blue from Fountainpennetwork, dunno if it's available right now.

Here's Signum's review and a water soak. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/193625-van-gogh-starry-night-blue-from-noodlers-ink/

Edited November 11, 2011 by Yoda4561

November 12, 2011

Hi,

I rather doubt that typical FP ink can meet your all your criteria, especially partial water resistance. That appears to require only some of the ink bond with the paper, leaving the rest to come adrift when brushed with water.

While it seems some Noodler's bulletproof inks can be applied in excess so that a bit of the ink is not bonded to the cellulose, that would only be a minor amount.

Other dye-based inks that are partly water resistant may just be smudgy.

Hmm :hmm1:

Of the inks I have used, the closest seemed the wancher 'imari'.

Colour is close, (they also have a Violet, Green & Brown)
Dry time is dreadful - perhaps allowing some reworking with a wet brush after drawing with pen?
Leaves a residue when wet - splatter and soak:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/INK%20Review%20-%20Wancher%20imari/6e877618.jpg

Archival & UV resistant properties are open to speculation.

My Review: http://www.fountainp...-wancher-imari/

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

So after a brief ponder: acrylic ink

Our Member fiberdrunk has experience with those inks, and generously posted this Topic:

http://www.fountainp..._1#entry1575031

One thing about the acrylic inks is their very rapid dry times. So that might be extended by adding [propylene] gylcol, aka non-toxic automotive anti-freeze. That may also increase their flow rate.

Will it bung-up your pen? Perhaps, so try the rotring art pens and/or the Ackerman pump pens.

http://www.rotring.c...iben/artpen.php

http://www.ackermanpens.com/en/

Choice of paper will be critical. I would not be surprised if you need to manually treat the paper to get the suitable amount and type of sizing / surface treatment. Indeed, paper may not be the best media: draughting frosted Mylar® (cleansed and treated with a surfactant such as Kodak Photo-Flow) perhaps?

Bye,

S1

EDIT - to add:

To extend the dry time, and reduce the amount of ink bonding with the drawing surface, perhaps pre-wetting the surface with a mister / sponge may keep the ink from penetrating too deep into the paper - making it available for subsequent brush work.

- - - - - -

Edited November 12, 2011 by Sandy1

November 12, 2011

I need to find or create through mixing, the perfect blue ink for sketching. Here is what I am looking for:

1. Indigo. Meaning a blue on the edge of violet and dark.

2. Water resistant. Used for pen and wash technique where I use a wet brush to spread the color so I can't have it too waterproof.

3. Halfway fade and UV resistant so my little transparent cube sketches can last 1000 years.

4. Saturated so there is enough color to spread and a dark line will remain afterwards.

5. Not too dry and preferably wet.

I currently make an Indigo mix from Waterman Florida blue mixed with Havana Brown. However, as good as it is for writing, it is too weak for sketching in my opinion. Basically, if the right color isn't available, I could use two inks, one a primary or violet blue and one a reddish brown that would, when combined, give the right color and qualitites.

Good luck with that 1,000 years part. I love the waterproof but not TOO waterproof part as well. A high bar indeed.

That said, I'd try samples of these three:

-- Noodler's Bad Belted Kingfisher

-- Noodler's Air Corp Blue Black

-- Noodler's Bad Blue Heron

In my experience, if you get to "bulletproof" ink marks quickly (and on cooperative paper), you can wash them. I've not tried any blues but that strategy works for some others. The blues may share that characteristic.

I don't use any blue inks for sketching, but I have found other PR inks are great for lush deep saturated color-to-spread washes, so I'll bet their Ebony or Midnight would be nice. But they probably don't have a very good lightfastness record, re: your 1,000 year requirement. Plus they are nowhere close to waterproof. Verrrrry washy!

November 12, 2011

Thanks for the replies.

Yoda, Starry Night I have tried. It is closest to what I want in that it leaves a nice dark, almost black line, but the color that spreads is a beautiful blue--but not exactly the color I want. It also has the right amount of water resistance. Question is: Will it hold up to sunlight?

BTW, the 1000 year requirement was a bit of joke.

November 12, 2011

I need to find or create through mixing, the perfect blue ink for sketching. Here is what I am looking for:

1. Indigo. Meaning a blue on the edge of violet and dark.

2. Water resistant. Used for pen and wash technique where I use a wet brush to spread the color so I can't have it too waterproof.

3. Halfway fade and UV resistant so my little transparent cube sketches can last 1000 years.

4. Saturated so there is enough color to spread and a dark line will remain afterwards.

5. Not too dry and preferably wet.

I would explore acrylic inks because so far as I know, those are the only kind of inks that will fit all of your criteria. I use Magic Color (made in England) and vintage Rotring ArtistColor.

I did a light-fastness scan here of these and other inks. You'll be able to see the acrylics resisted fading even better than most of the Noodler's bulletproof inks. They had no fading, in fact! These inks are pigmented, fast-drying and don't smudge when other colors are added. You can build up layers. They are mixable so you can create custom colors, and are acid-free. They are highly waterproof. Only use the translucent ("standard") versions of these inks in a fountain pen, and not the opaque ones.

I would only use acrylic inks in fountain pens that can be completely taken apart for cleaning, such as the Rotring ArtPen and the Pilot Parallel Pen. Never leave the ink to dry up in the pen for long periods of time. Flush regularly, like any fountain pen ink. I have also used the pen in Platinum Preppy just fine, though because the ink stains the barrel, it is now a "designated pen." I would get "designated ink converters" for the Rotring Artpen as some of the colors will stain the converter (or recycle rinsed ink cartridges for that purpose). The Parallel Pen can be used like an eyedropper pen, or you can dump the contents of their highly fugitive ink cartridges and fill with the ink of your choice.

Here is a color scan of the Magic Color inks that are available. The "standard range" are the ones you can use safely in the Rotring ArtPen. There are only 2 places in the U.S. that carry this ink: Paper & Ink Arts and Dick Blick. ArtiFolk in the U.K. seems to sell it cheapest per ounce, even with shipping to the U.S., and they sell it in both the 28 ml and 250 ml size (they're the only mail order company that sells it in the larger size, so far as I know).

Here's a review of Magic Color Rust.

Here's a review of Magic Color Grecian Olive.

Anyway, good luck in your quest! I'm always searching for the most permanent inks I can find because I'm into genealogy, and I've been using these acrylic inks for 20+ years without a problem.

Edited November 12, 2011 by fiberdrunk

November 12, 2011

Might be of interest. I have been doing genealogy research on my family that came from Sweden. This image is from 1694, I would guess they are using iron gall ink in a dip pen or quill pen. It's not 1,000 years but 300 years.