J Bar And Re-sac

[watch_art]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56yOhtGuas

 

Lousy video of how to put in a j bar and sac into a pen that uses them. This is the first attempt I've made in about 6 months. I did 8 in all today, and should have filmed the last one, as I don't look so clumsy and clueless! I used tweezers to help pull the sacs down after the 2nd or 3rd one, and this made it a LOT easier to do.

 

 

"Different people do pen repair procedures different ways. The way I do my pens may not be the way you want to do yours. You should always do your own research to determine what the exact generally accepted repair procedure is before you attempt to do it on your own pen. This vid is meant as an incentive to show how easy the procedure is, not as an instructional video."

 

That's why the big dogs don't show you how to do it. They don't want to be responsible for you messing your stuff up b/c they showed you how...

 

So... don't anybody blame me if you break your stuff.

Edited August 7, 2010 by watch_art

[USMCMom]

Thank you, thank you!!! Was that an Estie? I'm not good enough yet to know. This was a really good video, Shawn! One thing I don't understand fully ... measuring the sac. I understand that you don't want the end of the sac on the bottom of the barrel and I understand about the opening, but you said something about a half inch and then cut the sac. Did you guesstimate the distance from screwed in section to the bottom of the barrel and then cut it to where you thought it would give enough clearance from the bottom of the barrel? It looked like that's what you did.

 

Good video!!!

 

Nola

[OcalaFlGuy]

Not meaning to diss your vid, but I have a couple nits to pick.

 

*You* may like silicone sacs but if you research the subject, I think you will find that when it comes to MOST

lever fill pens (and universally so with Esties...) the Pros DON'T prefer a silicone sac over a latex one. A silicone

sac isn't as rigid and will not fill as well as a latex sac. There (as far as I'm aware) is basically ONE situation

where a silicone sac is preferred and that is with a pen that has visualted celluloid where installing a latex sac

will have it outgassing and continueing to amber the celluloid. Even in that situation the silicone sac is a recognized

compromise, a sacrafice of the best possible fill for a less chance of discoloring the celluloid.

 

While your sac measuring procedure is basically fine, at least for the J-family of Esties, alot of time can be saved

by just cutting the sac to the generally accepted 1 15/16".

 

It is also generally accepted to align the top center of the nib with the fill lever upon reassembly. That is impossible

to do without a nib being in the section when you put it back in.

 

Lastly, yes there are some pens with a section/barrel fit that is "loose" enough that reinserting the section without

warming the mouth of the barrel is fine. (The Estie in your vid appears to be one of those.) There are however, other

pens, and certain other Esties like Transitionals where they are often a VERY tight fit and just pushing the section into

a room temp barrel could crack it. You are much more likely to save yourself grief heating a barrel/section joint

than you are causing any difficulty by doing so.

 

Just trying to be my ever helpful self...

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Ron Z]

To further elaborate on a point that Bruce made. One should never try to remove or reinstall a section without a nib screwed in place. Especially removing the section from the barrel. The nib supports the section as you grip the section, and will keep you from accidentally crushing it.

[watch_art]

To further elaborate on a point that Bruce made. One should never try to remove or reinstall a section without a nib screwed in place. Especially removing the section from the barrel. The nib supports the section as you grip the section, and will keep you from accidentally crushing it.

 

Yeah, definitely. I think I mentioned that in the video too. That one was easy in and out, so I wasn't worried, but the other ones I was sure to have a nib in it, like I said earlier.

[watch_art]

 

*You* may like silicone sacs but if you research the subject, I think you will find that when it comes to MOST

lever fill pens (and universally so with Esties...) the Pros DON'T prefer a silicone sac over a latex one. A silicone

sac isn't as rigid and will not fill as well as a latex sac.

 

 

I have read about silicone vs. rubber before, but it's been a while. Could you send me some links that go into greater depth? I get silicone b/c they seem tougher. When I handle them at the same time, though, the rubber feels softer, and the silicone more rigid. So I'm not understanding your statement completely, I think.

 

Thanks

[kathleen]

THANKS, WATCH ART,

It is so helpful to see a demonstration. Your running narrative is wonderful and you remember some important details that the "big dogs" would fail to mention, such as, "wipe the talc off of the section onto your shirt so it's nice and clean". This was an excellent tutorial and I am thinking maybe I can do a J bar replacement, I've already successfully installed some sacs.

I enjoy all your posts.

Edited August 8, 2010 by kathleen

[watch_art]

THANKS, WATCH ART,

It is so helpful to see a demonstration. Your running narrative is wonderful and you remember some important details that the "big dogs" would fail to mention, such as, "wipe the talc off of the section onto your shirt so it's nice and clean". This was an excellent tutorial and I am thinking maybe I can do a J bar replacement, I've already successfully installed some sacs.

I enjoy all your posts.

 

Thanks very much!

[watch_art]

I just did a water drop check to see how many drops I could squeeze out of my pen. Remember the busted up J I got from ANM a while back? Well, I put a sack in it the same way I did this one (but a lot quicker because it was the last one I did) and it held 14 drops of water. Is that good? I've never counted drops before (because I don't care) so I don't know what a good fill on a sac should look like. I pulled the lever real slow so I could count them, and they all were about the same size. After drop 14, I let it go and pulled again and just got splatters. So maybe 14.5 drops?

 

Thanks!

Edited August 8, 2010 by watch_art

[watch_art]

WHEW! I just got 21 out of a different pen I sacced. Maybe I didn't let it suck up enough water in the first pen... 21. That's not bad is it?

[eckiethump]

Maybe the statement that latex is more rigid than silicon is not quite clear enough. Latex will return to shape much quicker and more readily than silicon sacs, being more pliable. For the same reason, they will fit varying sizes of section nipple a lot snugger. Like most things in pen repair as life, both have their place as an optimum solution, for the reasons previously mentioned.

et

[watch_art]

So is there anything wrong with using the silicone sacs on these pens? It's not gonna make any difference really is it? I mean, if I'm getting 15-20 drops on a fill... Just because they're not the sacs normally used doesn't make it wrong does it?

 

Are there any negatives to using silicone instead of rubber in this situation?

 

thanks.

[eckiethump]

Pens won't work as well as they can, as explained, that's a negative.

et

[watch_art]

So is 20 drops of ink not a full fill?

[eckiethump]

Level of ink taken in, isn't in question.

et

[SidandNancy]

Thanks so much Shawn........as usual, your Spielberg effort was both informative and very entertaining!!! :thumbup: Please keep the vids coming!!!!

Edited August 8, 2010 by SidandNancy

[BrianDiPalma]

Thanks for the video! It is quite encouraging as I'm getting ready to undertake my first restore and it will necessitate the replacement of a J-Bar because I bent the old one too many times and it broke. : ( Also, unless I missed it, which is entirely possible, I didn't catch the reference that you made about fixing a slack lever. At some point in the video, you mentioned a trick to get rid of the slack in the lever so it won't flop out. I assumed that the only way to get rid of the slack was to readjust the J-Bar, but perhaps there is another way. Could you elaborate on that point if it was something in addition to just adjusting the J-Bar? Thanks again for the encouraging video!

[Ron Z]

There is nothing wrong with using a silicone sac in this pen. It really is a preference based on experience, and a desire to insure reliability in the pens that I repair. (remember, pros have a warranty to think about) There is a balance between the benefits of the inherent ink resistance of the silicone and the problems introduced.

 

I have found that there can be a significant difference between the amount of ink that they take in vs a latex sac. We have also found that they can tear and puncture a bit more easily. One tends to use an oversize sac because they don't stretch over the sac nipple as easily. Therefore the sac may be a little looser on the sac nipple.

 

While I haven't had a sac leak at the section, I do believe that more care has to be given to to the application of the shellac to insure that it is spread evenly on the sac nipple. I give a twist to the sac to make sure that it spreads evenly, and I like to see a bit of a bead of shellac has formed in front of the sac to form a better seal. Allow extra time for the shellac to set completely before use because stuff doesn't stick as well to the silicone as it does to latex.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Ron Z

[OcalaFlGuy]

Thanks for the video! It is quite encouraging as I'm getting ready to undertake my first restore and it will necessitate the replacement of a J-Bar because I bent the old one too many times and it broke. : ( Also, unless I missed it, which is entirely possible, I didn't catch the reference that you made about fixing a slack lever. At some point in the video, you mentioned a trick to get rid of the slack in the lever so it won't flop out. I assumed that the only way to get rid of the slack was to readjust the J-Bar, but perhaps there is another way. Could you elaborate on that point if it was something in addition to just adjusting the J-Bar? Thanks again for the encouraging video!

 

I am not WatchArt, nor did I play him on TV, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer here as I think I was the latest to regurgitate the idea over in Estieville.

 

Actually Brian, you already have the "right" answer. The optimal way to stoppinzeeflopin is to fix the issue with the j-bar. First, if there is a sac tray, it needs to be directly under the fill lever not misorientated over to the side. Then the top of the j-bar needs to fit flush against the bottom of the inside of the barrel and directly under the lever. As WA mentioned the "sidewalls" of the aftermarket j-bar will likely need to be ground down flush. If it is a stock j-bar it should be pushed into the barrel such that the lever stop detent is in the right place to stop the lever at 90 deg. (The aftermarket j-bars won't have the stop detent.) If all this orientating is correct (and it may take a couple efforts to get it so) the lever should not flop when closed. I also excercise the lever several times before I button things back up just to be sure things STAY as they should.

 

Howver, if repeated tries to the above DON'T stoppinzeeflopin, or perhaps someone is new to this and afraid to disassemble the pen, there is a trick that IMO is a stopgap but it usually DOES work. And at least it's reverseable.

 

This mainly applies to Esties. The fill lever is kind of "hollow" shaped liked this [_]. If you **carefully** spread the top of this channel closest to the blade end of the lever just a hair, that will keep the lever within the lever "box" when pushed in. This may also take a couple tries to get "goldylocks right". The time or two I've used it I used the sharp awl on my Swiss Army knife to spread the lever channel and have a pair of small needlenose pliers at the ready too as you will likely spread the channel TOO wide a least once and need to close it back up a hair.

 

In the chance this isn't WA's trick, I'm sure he'll interject the "correct" one.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[watch_art]

I am not WatchArt, nor did I play him on TV, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer here as I think I was the latest to regurgitate the idea over in Estieville.

 

Yes you do know b/c you gave me the tip! This green one is the only one that had the floppy issue. I ground the other j bars a bit more than this one and they all set a lot better. I also had to take the tray out a couple times to get it in there just right. The other ones went much quicker.

 

As WA mentioned the "sidewalls" of the aftermarket j-bar will likely need to be ground down flush.

 

Don't forget where I heard it from: Mr. Zorn.

 

 

 

The fill lever is kind of "hollow" shaped liked this [_]. If you **carefully** spread the top of this channel closest to the blade end of the lever just a hair, that will keep the lever within the lever "box" when pushed in. This may also take a couple tries to get "goldylocks right". The time or two I've used it I used the sharp awl on my Swiss Army knife to spread the lever channel and have a pair of small needlenose pliers at the ready too as you will likely spread the channel TOO wide a least once and need to close it back up a hair.

 

 

And there you have it. Forgot to mention this because things got a bit fishy in my shop!