Newbie with an old Waterman pen...

[ElaineB]

Hi, this is my first post here, but I've been reading the board for about a week now. (I bought Kendall J.'s green Esterbrook earlier this month, which is how I found my way here to the forum.)

 

I just won this pen on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6505263797

 

And now I need some sage advice from people who deal with old pens regularly. I'm a fountain pen user for most of my life, but never used anything but inexpensive modern models. But lately I've really been itching to try an older hard rubber pen with a more responsive nib. And tonight, I just happened to see this auction about to close with a $10 final bid. I'm no expert, but that seemed pretty low for an old Waterman, even if the pen was a junker and could only be used for parts. There was no time to do any research, so I threw in a bid and waited those last minutes until the auction ended.

 

Well, surprisingly, I won it. I'm kind of excited, but I'm also a little worried now. I was looking around web sites after I'd won the auction, and it's possible this pen might be worth something. Trouble is, I was kind of planning to resac and toodle around with it myself. I don't have a lot of money and I didn't do this as an investment. I was just hoping to find an old pen I could experiment with -- without feeling like I was destroying something collectible.

 

And now, I'm wondering if I should bring it to a restorer instead? If I had it restored, do you think it would be worth more than the restoration costs + auction fee combined? If so, perhaps I should restore it, sell it, and keep looking for old uglies that still write well. What would you do?

 

Thanks for any advice,

Elaine

[KCat]

Hi Elaine - I really don't have any advice on this more a question to add to your questions.

 

Is "Sepia colored" rubber the same thing as oxidized HR?

 

It looks promising as a user - would have to see the feed and a better image of the nib. But I'm no WM expert so I'm sure someone else with real knowhow will jump in here. I'd have bid on it for $10.

 

Welcome to FPN. And good luck on this latest acquisition. Those little Esties are cool, eh?

[Maja]

Hi Elaine, and welcome to FPN

Hey, I've bought something from that same Ebayer (mienchou)! (I got a good deal on a little Waterman 3V, I believe..)

 

But anyway...I am not a Waterman expert, but I do know that a lot of the vintage Waterman pens have nice flexible nibs, which will give you the line variation (when writing) that most modern pens lack. If you have the know-how and the supplies to re-sack the pen yourself, then by all means do so! (if it is necessary for this pen) If you want to send the pen out to get that hairline crack repaired (it doesn't look all that bad to me) it will probably set you back $35-$40 USD plus shipping both ways, so I don't know if it would be worth it. Now, if this were a pen that had belonged to a loved one that you wanted repaired, that would be a different matter

 

Since you are a fountain pen user (as opposed to just a collector) I would first see how the pen's nib writes before making any restoration decisions. If it is a really nice writer, then I would resack it myself and keep it. If it doesn't write well, then I would sell it to someone else (whether you want to resack it yourself before selling is up to you...)

[ElaineB]

Is "Sepia colored" rubber the same thing as oxidized HR?

Uhh, uh, uh... I haven't a clue. I've never seen any of these things in person. I've read about the discoloration of the black pens, and noted the chasing on this pen's barrel and cap. So I thought it might have once been black like all the others I've seen in photos. But who knows? Maybe they made sepia rubber with a chased design?

 

ElaineB

[KendallJ]

Elaine! welcome. I hope you still like the Esterbrook. I really liked the pen, but I try to keep my collection small, and since I have received 2 others from family, I thought I'd prune them out a bit. My others are SJ's and that was the only J, but if I'm going to have 3 in a small collection, I'm more partial to blue than green.

 

I'm not a BHR knowledgable at all, but if the feed is in good shape, that pen looks promising. The hairline looks like a deep gouge rather than a crack, and the brownish color doens't look original. Richard Binder has some examples of reblackening of the rubber that he does using a product from Tryphon.

 

Binder's reference

 

Restoratin is probably in the 30-50$ range if you sent it to Richard. I would think even that cost probably wouldn't exceed the value of the pen once restored.

 

Welcome to FPNet. I think you'll find this a very cozy community, and little of the trash talk of PT.

[ElaineB]

Hi Kendall,

Yes I'm still having a blast with the green Estie. It writes beautifully and feels great in my hand. And I'm happy to have found this forum, too. Cozy is a very apt word. I enjoy the hands-on focus (the extensive repair talk, and penmanship section), and the fact that people here really seem to use their pens, rather than simply buy them and stick them in a display case. (I have trouble understanding why people would buy a ridiculously expensive pen and then never use it. It's like buying a fabulous musical instrument and then never playing it. What's the point?)

 

I'm much happier reading conversations about turning school fountain pens into ED models. Much more my speed. I'm a writer and tinkerer. I love tweaking my tools.

 

Anyway, I feel like this Waterman has started me off on an adventure. I'm curious to see where it takes me!

 

Elaine

[Maja]

Elaine, please let us know how the pen writes when you get it from the Ebay seller...I am curious to see how this all pans out

(you can post the "update" here)

[ElaineB]

Thanks, Rob. That's the info I was looking for. I like twiddling around with tools and fixing old things up (I've got a long history of fixing various old things up, from sewing machines to harpsichords) but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to be messing around with something that was better handled by a professional. And if the nib doesn't turn out to be flexible, that's okay. I have a very light hand and like firm nibs, too

 

I'm going to enjoy this little project.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback everyone.

Elaine

[Keith with a capital K]

Welcome to FPN !

 

That looks like a bandless 52.5V ringtop which means it's a really nice little pen and I see that it was also made in Canada which increases the odds of that nib being at least semi flexible and probably moreso.

 

On the issue of restoration / conservation I would follow Rob's advice and give the pen a little cleaning, polishing, and resacking and then I expect that it will be good to go.

 

If you have questions regarding the techniques used to perform these little jobs, just browse the repair forum or post a question there to get the advice and answers you seek.

 

Cheers!

 

Keith

[KCat]

I am sorry to say, No. It's almost certain that your pen started out black and has aged to its current tone in sunlight and,

Thanks for chiming in Rob. That was what I suspect and why I asked.

 

While I understand (and agree with) your rationale on not restoring beyond the minimum, I am still curious about the nib on Elaine's pen. Look forward to hearing what sort of condition it is in. I would (if it were me) endeavor to get the nib in not only working order but in a condition that made me love to use the pen. it may be that this only means a good cleaning and light polishing. But wouldn't you spend a little $ towards this if you liked the pen overall? I have two restored no-names with crummy nibs. One is not mine and will hopefully get a newer nib soon. The other is mine and I'm just going to snip off the ugly tip (see my other question on nib typing) and make it an italic or something.

 

anyway - just wondering - someday I'd like a pen like this of user quality with a flex nib. No time soon though. I'm penned saturated right now.

[ElaineB]

Whee! I just received this little pen today and oh, it's just a wonderful little thing. Unfortunately, my digicam's batteries are run out, so I can't shoot any close-ups until I recharge it tomorrow. But here's a run-down of its condition:

 

The nib has discolored to a greenish hue - I'm not sure if it's old dried ink or what. I didn't think gold oxidized like that. Could it be plated? The tines have nice flex to them, but the nib itself is puzzling to me. It looks like a stub -- no irridium at all, and with a straight edge like one of my old italic pen nibs (except much thinner). Did Waterman do stub nibs in this era? Could it have been modified later?

 

The barrel and lever are in sound condition, although the sac is predictably quite crunchy inside. The cap threads on nice and tightly. The chasing on the cap and barrel is very worn, almost completely gone. It's clear this pen was used a lot. I'm hoping that means it's a nice writer!

 

The major problem that I see so far is a hairline crack at the bottom of the cap. It's grown (my fault. I forgot that it was there and posted the cap firmly when I first opened the package, which opened it up further.) So I need to do something to stabilize it. Would a very thin application of a jeweler's glue or crazy glue be appropriate for this hardened rubber? I was thinking of applying some from the inside of the barrel and letting the capillary action draw the glue toward the outer edges. The crack does not affect the threads on the cap -- just the lower edge below them.

 

I've got some sacs and supplies coming on order, but I'm still a bit afraid to try my hand at pulling off the section just yet. (How easy is it to overheat hardened rubber and destroy a pen??) So all I can do is hold the pen in my hand and pretend I'm writing. I have to say, it feels wonderful. Just the right shape and weight for my writing style.

 

ElaineB

[Maja]

While you are waiting for your repair/resacking supplies to arrive, why don't you dip the pen in some ink and try writing with it? I am curious about that nib!

[AlanSteytler]

And now, I'm wondering if I should bring it to a restorer instead? If I had it restored, do you think it would be worth more than the restoration costs + auction fee combined?

I picked up a 52-1/2 from Jack Price in Columbus, fully restored: $100. So, I'd say just go ahead and have a good time with it...

 

Alan

[ElaineB]

Okay, Maja, I pulled out my bottle of ink and wrote with this little thing.

(Click on the image to see a larger detail)

http://www.urbanspinner.com/images/misc/waterman_sm.jpg

 

The nib has lots of flex. Very responsive. If I had a real inkflow from the reservoir, I could have done more elaborate flourishes on the bottom of the page. Unfortunately, from making this sample page I can see the nib is also too broad to handle my everyday writing. My customary hand is smaller, and while I've done enough calligraphy to adjust to a larger, broader nib, it didn't feel natural. I'm still wondering if this nib is in original condition.

 

ElaineB

[Maja]

Wow, great flex to that nib....and the handwriting is beautiful too!

Thanks for sharing that with us....

 

As for the difference between an italic nib and a stub nib, I could try to explain it, but since a picture is worth a 1000 words, check Richard Binder's' glossary of pen terminology. Basically a stub nib is a rounded italic nib.