Visconti New Ragtime (1994, II) - Piston or C/C?

[girlieg33k]

I know you don't have them in front of you, but the photos on Visconti's site actually show a difference with the clips. Some of the Originals and the Caravel have a 2-piece clip. I have a Original MP with the 2-piece clip, which is a dead ringer for the photo on Visconti's site. It's an Original that made me look really hard at the photos of the various Ragtimes.

Eric,

 

Since I don't have the pens in front of me (and won't for another week or so; I'm out of town), I cannot verify whether the clips on the Original and New Ragtimes are the same or different. I have photos of some of the Ragtimes posted on Flickr, however. I cannot tell for sure, even from my own photos, but they look the same to me. Here they are for now:

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/3015088469_aecfd076f1.jpg

Clip of New Ragtime Blond/Black

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2554766385_e1c5c81e0d.jpg

Some Viscontis, including Ragtimes

In the second photo, the 8th pen (from the left) is an Original Ragtime. The 9th and 10th pens (from the left) are New Ragtimes. In that photo, the clips look identical, but I'll confirm when I have the pens in front of me.

 

I acquired the New Ragtimes three years ago. With 18K nibs, they set me back less than $150 each. I've noticed that the prices have gone up a bit on eBay and when they appear in the Marketplace. I purchased two Original Ragtimes last year, and the price for each was around $250. The Ragtime Black was around $100 if memory serves, and the Medici version was also less than $150.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Kate

Edited February 18, 2009 by girlieg33k

[eric47]

I know you don't have them in front of you, but the photos on Visconti's site actually show a difference with the clips. Some of the Originals and the Caravel have a 2-piece clip. I have a Original MP with the 2-piece clip, which is a dead ringer for the photo on Visconti's site. It's an Original that made me look really hard at the photos of the various Ragtimes.

Eric,

 

Since I don't have the pens in front of me (and won't for another week or so; I'm out of town), I cannot verify whether the clips on the Original and New Ragtimes are the same or different. I have photos of some of the Ragtimes posted on Flickr, however. I cannot tell for sure, even from my own photos, but they look the same to me. Here they are for now:

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/3015088469_aecfd076f1.jpg

Clip of New Ragtime Blond/Black

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2554766385_e1c5c81e0d.jpg

Some Viscontis, including Ragtimes

In the second photo, the 8th pen (from the left) is an Original Ragtime. The 9th and 10th pens (from the left) are New Ragtimes. In that photo, the clips look identical, but I'll confirm when I have the pens in front of me.

 

Hi Kate,

 

Thanks for the photos. Your Original Ragtime looks like the one I have with an 18K: one-piece S-shaped clip, but with the wider "Seasons" cap band; QM2 described the same cap on his although with unmarked two-toned nib. So these type of caps are sufficiently common. But there are some other Originals which have a slightly different cap. I'll fetch straight from Visconti their photo of the Originals:

 

http://www.visconti.it/archivioImg/ragtime-i.jpg

 

There's enough detail in your 2d photo to see that the clip and cap band are different. By next week I should have a 14K Original in my hand; but I already know from the photos of it that it looks like the one in the Visconti photo: two-piece riveted clip with ball and thinner cap band....just like the MP I have.

 

I acquired the New Ragtimes three years ago. With 18K nibs, they set me back less than $150 each. I've noticed that the prices have gone up a bit on eBay and when they appear in the Marketplace. I purchased two Original Ragtimes last year, and the price for each was around $250. The Ragtime Black was around $100 if memory serves, and the Medici version was also less than $150.

I would have loved to have paid those prices. ;-) Indeed the prices have gone up from what I've seen as well. I just haven't seen a New Ragtime come up recently. I've had better luck with the Originals which is the opposite of what I thought I'd encounter.

 

Hope that helps.

It does! Eric

[girlieg33k]

Hi Eric,

 

Numpty confession: I've seen Visconti's photo of the Original Ragtime and I've even looked at it numerous times. However, this is the first time I've noticed that the clips look different. I thought, perhaps, it was the angle that the photo was taken. I now also notice that the cap band on the Original Ragtime in Visconti's photo looks thinner than the band on both the Originals that I've acquired.

 

We may be getting thick into thin things at this point, but I saw this Original Ragtime on eBay:

 

Image taken from this eBay auction. (I shall refrain from commenting on the price. Ahem.)

 

That's the rounded cap and clip on my Original Ragtimes. Maybe there was a "transitional" version? (If someone has already theorized this in this thread, I missed it.)

 

One last thing that I failed to note - and maybe someone has already noted it - though the Original and New Ragtimes are both piston fillers, the Original (like the Ragtime Black & Medici) has a blind cap that has to be removed to operate the filling system. The New Ragtimes don't have this blind cap; it operates like the usual piston fillers.

 

I'll be sure to photograph (and post photos) of all the Ragtimes when I return from my travels. It's now beginning to gnaw at me, thanks.

 

K.

 

Edited to Add: I found this thread posted by AndrewC which shows an Original Ragtime in the Green/Black celluloid, plus a Ragtime Black. I have that same (Original?) version in the Blond/Black and Blue/Green celluloids. By the way, this is the only other photo on the Web that I've found of the Blue/Green celluloid (but in the New Ragtime version).

Edited February 18, 2009 by girlieg33k

[eric47]

Hi Eric,

 

Numpty confession: I've seen Visconti's photo of the Original Ragtime and I've even looked at it numerous times. However, this is the first time I've noticed that the clips look different. I thought, perhaps, it was the angle that the photo was taken. I now also notice that the cap band on the Original Ragtime in Visconti's photo looks thinner than the band on both the Originals that I've acquired.

 

We may be getting thick into thin things at this point, but I saw this Original Ragtime on eBay:

 

That's the rounded cap and clip on my Original Ragtimes. Maybe there was a "transitional" version? (If someone has already theorized this in this thread, I missed it.)

Hi Kate,

 

No problem, same thing happened to me with the photos.

 

I forgot, you can get a good look at that 2-piece clip on the Caravel 1992 here, which is at the same site you linked for the blue Ragtime II.

 

I did a bit theorizing/summarizing earlier in the thread about the clip and bands here.

 

The thicker band and 1-piece S clip appear first on the Seasons 1993 with its acrylic barrel but cap and blind-cap in celluloid. They didn't put the double-bands (which appear on the earlier 1992 Caravel) on the later Seasons. Can't say for sure but the celluloid on some is cut and glued in various arrangements -- could be too weak for the double-bands. Maybe our 18Ks -- and the auction pen -- are from this period because they have the more refined elements (particularly the S clip).

 

In 1994 we see the New Ragtime with both the double-bands and 1-piece S clip. But something which I didn't know, which you pointed out, without the blind cap.

 

 

I'll be sure to photograph (and post photos) of all the Ragtimes when I return from my travels. It's now beginning to gnaw at me, thanks.

Fantastic, I'll be looking forward to them.

 

Thanks, Eric

[QM2]

This fascinating discussion certainly makes me crave more Ragtimes. I don't understand why the prices on them are so outrageous, and why they are impossible to find. Where/ how did you get yours? Mine popped up on the marketplace here purely by chance, and was priced just over $200 (used, plated steel nib). I have seen a black steel-nibbed one advertised here for $100 at some point as well, but that was gone faster than my finger could reach for the "send PM" button!

 

BTW, mine looks exactly like the leftmost Ragtime on Kate's picture here:

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2554766385_e1c5c81e0d.jpg

 

 

I would really like to find a Ragtime II now; the flat-top shape and the double cap bands are more appealing to me than the Ragtime I design. I may have been willing to splurge on the current Ragtime LE as well, if they didn't go and ruin it with the metal section : ((

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2009 by QM2

[jde]

I've appreciated all these posts sharing information about the Ragtime versions. Like QM2, my craving has been amplified. The only one I've held has been the LE, and I loved the design. I cannot remember now the weight of it.

 

I often feel now that I've returned to fountain pens, I've missed the party on so many styles I prefer!

 

 

 

[QM2]

I keep forgetting to mention one thing:

 

The endcaps on these pens (at least on the Ragtime I like mine) are very simple to unscrew, and the clip is removable/changeable (it is not attached to the pen in any way, it just sits there). So I can easily imagine a scenario where, upon developing the new clip, Visconti simply began to use them on the Ragtime I instead of the older version, deciding that they made the pen more attractive and marketable...

 

 

[eric47]

This fascinating discussion certainly makes me crave more Ragtimes. I don't understand why the prices on them are so outrageous, and why they are impossible to find. Where/ how did you get yours?

I suspect the 20th anniversary Ragtime brought the original Ragtimes onto people's radar. It did in my case. I thought I would be fine with the 20th, but I decided *an* Original Ragtime would be nice to have. Well...that little idea has exploded on me, particularly once I was able able to hold that vintage celluloid in my hands. I'm addicted now to the early Viscontis. When you have to face maniacs like me, the prices are bound to rise. ;-)

 

I found them through the usual and known auction channels, as well as pen shops. I've been fortunate to have found some NOS.

 

I would really like to find a Ragtime II now; the flat-top shape and the double cap bands are more appealing to me than the Ragtime I design. I may have been willing to splurge on the current Ragtime LE as well, if they didn't go and ruin it with the metal section : ((

If we have to battle for a Ragtime II prices will surely be high. The metal section on the LE is, I think, there mainly for balance.

 

What you often don't see is the piston knob (and probably bits of the mechanism) are metal on the LE. You can feel the weight of it in the back of the LE; the metal section helps to balance the pen. Without it it would be a bit top heavy. The LE piston mechanism feels more rubust and is very smooth; the plastic mechanism in the early pens feels a bit delicate and at times a bit "cheap" IMHO -- there's a fair amount of play. The LE has a system which is smooth like an Aurora, and the nib is winner. Mine's an F, but it's incredibly smooth and silky to write with.

 

Since you have an original Ragtime, try to find a local shop that has the LE. Take the blind cap off and try the piston. You'll see what I mean.

 

The LE is heavier overall compared to the early Ragtimes (and probably a tad bigger in diameter), but it is a very balanced pen. If I didn't have the Ragtime II on my list, I'd seriously consider getting a 2d LE.

 

Eric

Edited February 18, 2009 by eric47

[QM2]

Just to spice things up: the Ragtime III and the Ragtime Medici (both images from Airlines International)

 

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airline_2040_287285176.jpg

http://airline.stores.yahoo.net/visragiiifou.html

 

http://airlineintl.com/visconti/img/viscontiVE_ragtimeblack.jpg

http://airlineintl.com/visconti/viscontiVE_ragtimeblack.htm

 

 

[blueskies]

Was the original Ragtime the '92 Caravel?

 

Are both iterations ('92 Caravel & '93 Seasons) "Original Ragtime" fps?

 

I'm trying to identify as closely as possible a beautiful Ragtime fp that I'm enjoying. I read this thread and pulled from it the following excerpt:

 

"The thicker band and 1-piece S clip appear first on the Seasons 1993 with its acrylic barrel but cap and blind-cap in celluloid. They didn't put the double-bands (which appear on the earlier 1992 Caravel) on the later Seasons. Can't say for sure but the celluloid on some is cut and glued in various arrangements -- could be too weak for the double-bands. Maybe our 18Ks -- and the auction pen -- are from this period because they have the more refined elements (particularly the S clip)."

 

This pen has the:

1. thicker band

2. 1 piece S clip

3. piston filler/blind cap

4. domed top (a black domed or convex shaped material on the top of the cap)

 

How do I discern whether the body of this pen has an acrylic barrel and a celluloid blind cap? Do these materials look differently under strong lighting?

 

Apparently, I've got the later versions of the Ragtime RB and BP since both of those have double bands, one of which is a flat top with a gold emblem on the end.

 

Thanks for the great information on Ragtimes.

 

Kind Regards,

Mike

[eric47]

Was the original Ragtime the '92 Caravel?

Are both iterations ('92 Caravel & '93 Seasons) "Original Ragtime" fps?

Mike,

 

First, photos would help a lot.

 

The Caravel and Seasons were LE Ragtimes. The first Ragtimes were introduced in 1991.

 

Julie put together a wonderful summary of the Ragtimes here.

 

This pen has the:

1. thicker band

2. 1 piece S clip

3. piston filler/blind cap

4. domed top (a black domed or convex shaped material on the top of the cap)

 

How do I discern whether the body of this pen has an acrylic barrel and a celluloid blind cap? Do these materials look differently under strong lighting?

If it has curved/domed cap and blind cap, then it's a Ragtime I. Because of the thicker band and S-clip, it's from a latter production. Julie has some photos of in her review. Does it look like the Pearl (or similar but in a different color)?

 

The arcylic barrels on the Seasons are solid colors, black, burgundy, blue. And you would know if you had a Seasons, because on top of the cap there's an insert with "Stagioni", the season, and number, etc.

 

Apparently, I've got the later versions of the Ragtime RB and BP since both of those have double bands, one of which is a flat top with a gold emblem on the end.

So you have more than one? Double-band flattop sounds like a Ragtime II. What does that gold emblem say, what does the clip look like, and what's etched in the clip?

 

Because the gold emblem, it could be you have a pen from the Federico II set, the clip would have a bird-design cut into it and "Federico II" would be etched in the clip.

Edited September 25, 2009 by eric47

[blueskies]

First, photos would help a lot.

 

I'm not able to post one at the moment, I do apologize.

 

The Caravel and Seasons were LE Ragtimes. The first Ragtimes were introduced in 1991.

Julie put together a wonderful summary of the Ragtimes here.

 

Thanks! It looks great!

 

The arcylic barrels on the Seasons are solid colors, black, burgundy, blue. And you would know if you had a Seasons, because on top of the cap there's an insert with "Stagioni", the season, and number, etc.

 

It must not be a, "Seasons," since the top of the fp has no, "Stagioni," insert.

 

So you have more than one?

 

1 ea-fp, rb, mp

 

Double-band flattop sounds like a Ragtime II. What does that gold emblem say,

 

Double-band flattop is a rb and the circular gold emblem on the cap is imprinted with raised letters, "VISCONTI"

 

what does the clip look like, and what's etched in the clip?

 

The rb double-band flattop has a single piece, "S," clip and bears the following, "VISCONTI ANNIVERSARY RAGTIME 1988 2008," and centered above the S clip on the

ring is the following, "1057" over "1988."

 

Because the gold emblem, it could be you have a pen from the Federico II set, the clip would have a bird-design cut into it and "Federico II" would be etched in the clip.

 

I don't see any other etchings or imprinting on the clip, other than what's noted above on the flattop.

 

The finish on all three is sort of a swirl of colors including dark hues (almost black), light golden amber, and various shades of amber in between these two colors. The two domed tops with wide rings at the base of the caps (fp & bp) have darker hues with gold-amber colors interspersed in more of a vertical arrangement or pattern. The flattop (rb) has some amazing colors in a swirling pattern, and a gold dusting is visible in both the amber and darker hues. What is used to make the gold sparkles?

 

Does it seem as if I have 2 original Ragtimes, possibly circa 1993 (domed tops w/single S clips & wide bands); one of which is a fp (18K monotone nib, piston filler) and one is a bp?

 

And that the third pen, a flattop rb, is a Ragtime II (2008) with a double-band and a gold "VISCONITI" emblem on the cap?

 

Thank you for your time, attention and Ragtime passion--a stunningly beautiful pen in so many versions!

 

Kind Regards,

Mike

[jde]

Mike,

As Eric indicated, it is really hard to tell without photos of your pen. (meant ever so kindly!)

 

Yes, it sounds like the domed topped pens could be original Ragtimes. You can compare yours to some of the photos in the links below.

 

There are photos in this thread, and there are photos of Ragtimes here and links to some photos here.

 

The pen with the "gold dust" and the imprint of 1988-2008 is not a Ragtime II. It is a LE 20th Anniversary. Look at GoodGuy's photos here.

 

You can also check out the Visconti Museum: http://visconti.it/museum

Best,

Julie

Edited September 26, 2009 by jde