Pure platinum nib... Has anyone used one? Would you?

[Bryant]

I know I have used many platinum plated nibs, but I have never used a Pure platinum nib. Does anyone have experience with them? I am considering a pen with one, but am kind of worried. It does not really seem like a material that would be good for a nib. Can platinum be flexible?

Any comments welcome...

Cheers

Bry

[RevAaron]

Color me ignorant, but what pen would that be?

[Bryant]

Color me ignorant, but what pen would that be?

The one I want is called the Visconti Empire. Supposedly its the first FP to use a pure Platinum nib. I would be curious to see if there were any other pens that had this. It came out in 2000, so obviously the platinum nib thing didn't take to well, as I dont think Visconti did this kind of nib again.

[Clydesdave]

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

 

 

 

[Bryant]

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

Thanks for your impute. Its kind of what I thought... I didnt think it would be very flexible, so I might have to switch the nib out.

 

I am confused by your last statement though...

How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

[Frits B]

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

Thanks for your impute. Its kind of what I thought... I didnt think it would be very flexible, so I might have to switch the nib out.

 

I am confused by your last statement though...

How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

I believe Platinum made a pen with a platinum nib several years ago, just to prove that they could. It was no better than their gold nibs and a lot more difficult and costly to make so disappeared relatively quickly. You should be aware that the only reason why nibs were made of gold in the first place was that steel nibs were eaten away by the aggressive inks of the time. Now that the inks have been tamed and steel can be made really rust-resistant there is no reason why nibs shouldn't be all steel again, but for the fact that we have got used to thinking that gold is better.

[Pelifan]

QUOTE (Frits B @ Dec 17 2008, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

Thanks for your impute. Its kind of what I thought... I didnt think it would be very flexible, so I might have to switch the nib out.

 

I am confused by your last statement though...

How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

I believe Platinum made a pen with a platinum nib several years ago, just to prove that they could. It was no better than their gold nibs and a lot more difficult and costly to make so disappeared relatively quickly. You should be aware that the only reason why nibs were made of gold in the first place was that steel nibs were eaten away by the aggressive inks of the time. Now that the inks have been tamed and steel can be made really rust-resistant there is no reason why nibs shouldn't be all steel again, but for the fact that we have got used to thinking that gold is better.

 

The main reason for gold over steel is of course the flexibility of gold nibs (which was kind of the main point of Bryant's original question I think). You never get flex with a steel nib. Personally, I can´t imagine going back to a stiff steel nib after having tried gold, it´s a joy to write with.

[Titivillus]

The main reason for gold over steel is of course the flexibility of gold nibs (which was kind of the main point of Bryant's original question I think). You never get flex with a steel nib. Personally, I can´t imagine going back to a stiff steel nib after having tried gold, it´s a joy to write with.

 

Not really true as there are dip pen nibs which are all steel which are amazingly flexible. YMMV.

 

 

Kurt

 

[Pelifan]

The main reason for gold over steel is of course the flexibility of gold nibs (which was kind of the main point of Bryant's original question I think). You never get flex with a steel nib. Personally, I can´t imagine going back to a stiff steel nib after having tried gold, it´s a joy to write with.

 

Not really true as there are dip pen nibs which are all steel which are amazingly flexible. YMMV.

 

 

Kurt

 

Point taken. (You made me remember that I actually own one, an extremely flexible tracer pen!) But I think flexible steel nibs in fountain pens are very rare, or even unheard of?

[daveg]

Well among modern pens, flexible nibs are no longer the norm regardless of material. Perhaps the main thing that stops anyone from making a flexible steel nib is that steel is used at low end of the market where a one-stiffness-fits-all model saves a lot of money.

[OldGriz]

The main reason for gold over steel is of course the flexibility of gold nibs (which was kind of the main point of Bryant's original question I think). You never get flex with a steel nib. Personally, I can´t imagine going back to a stiff steel nib after having tried gold, it´s a joy to write with.

 

The primary reason for using gold was NOT flexibility..... it was corrosion.

The older inks were very corrosive and steel nibs did not stand up well to them. Therefore the better grade nibs were made of gold to withstand the corrosive effects of the inks...

As for flexibility, as already stated, many of the old dip pen steel nibs were very flexible....

As for flexible steel nibs being unheard of in modern pens.... take a look at the Esterbrook pens... exchangeable nibs and they offered at least 3 flexible steel nibs...

Yes, the Estie is now considered vintage, but compared to the dip pens it was modern

Edited December 17, 2008 by OldGriz

[kirchh]

Point taken. (You made me remember that I actually own one, an extremely flexible tracer pen!) But I think flexible steel nibs in fountain pens are very rare, or even unheard of?

It's far from my area of interest and experience, but I believe that many wartime German pens had very flexible steel nibs, though I own but one such example (an Osmia, if I recall).

 

--Daniel

[Tsujigiri]

The Pelikan m200's steel nib is probably the most flexible you'll find now. I was surprised at the flexibility, it beats most of my gold pens in that respect.

[Pepin]

I heartily disagree. Gold nib is still better because it allows the option of using those corrosive vintage inks.

 

QUOTE (Frits B @ Dec 17 2008, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

Thanks for your impute. Its kind of what I thought... I didnt think it would be very flexible, so I might have to switch the nib out.

 

I am confused by your last statement though...

How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

I believe Platinum made a pen with a platinum nib several years ago, just to prove that they could. It was no better than their gold nibs and a lot more difficult and costly to make so disappeared relatively quickly. You should be aware that the only reason why nibs were made of gold in the first place was that steel nibs were eaten away by the aggressive inks of the time. Now that the inks have been tamed and steel can be made really rust-resistant there is no reason why nibs shouldn't be all steel again, but for the fact that we have got used to thinking that gold is better.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Pepin

[solitaire]

In 1932 Sheaffer put their 'Feathertouch' on the market. It was advertised as a nib that could be used from either side.

The nib was coated with platinum and Sheaffer said this improved ink flow.

After that two-tone nibs became more and more common, and the claim that the platinum was there to improve ink flow faded away.

 

Incidentally, the pellets used for tipping nibs are made from powdered meta. Osmium, tungsten and platinum are common ingredients for this flourlike powder.

 

There have been several pens with barrels made from platinum but I think they were mostly made to special order.

 

So a platinum nib could have very good 'wicking' and maybe manage with a tip

 

Solitaire

Edited December 18, 2008 by solitaire

[Clydesdave]

I am confused by your last statement though... How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public? I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

 

No, that isn't what I meant, I was making a general statement. I might have better said "How is a pen company that makes platinum nibs going to justify the expense to posible customers?"

 

 

 

[Bryant]

I am confused by your last statement though... How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public? I dont plan on selling this pen at all... I want to buy this pen for myself. Not because the nib, but I like the looks of it. Its been out since 2000 and not available to dealers any more. I will have to get it off ebay or another source. Is this what you meant?

 

No, that isn't what I meant, I was making a general statement. I might have better said "How is a pen company that makes platinum nibs going to justify the expense to posible customers?"

AW, I see... Sorry... I dont know. But, I do know that Visconti has only this one pen with that kind of nib, so I assume it was not the biggest seller. Great looking pen though, platinum or no platinum nib!

[RevAaron]

Platinum is an element, like gold in some ways. It is resistive to corrosion which is important in pens and malable. It is also much stiffer than gold, so much so that you could almost replace it with steel for the application of pen nibs. As an investment, it is very much tied to the market. In times of plenty it is more precious than gold, but in lean times, it becomes less expensive than gold. Not exactly the kind of stuff investments are made of.

 

I would have to say that platinum is not a great material for fountain pen nibs, nor a good investment. How are you going to sell that to the informed pen buying public?

 

Being stiffer than gold isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know squat about platinum or metallurgy, but I'd be happy to have some nibs that had these qualities:

 

1. corrosion resistance

2. stiff as a thick Estie nib

3. good shape memory/bounce back; hard to put tines out of alignment

 

My problem with many modern steel nibs is that a tine will get out of alignment, and unlike the better nib alloys of days past (gold and steel alike), will stay there rather than bouncing back. It drives me nuts.

 

Pens all around don't make a good investment. Gold nibs certainly do not- the gold in a $150 Pelikan nib is only USD $15-30. You're certainly not going to make that back until gold breaks $5000, let alone make a profit.

 

Same goes for platinum- the average price of platinum for the last 5 years is ~ $1200- not all that much more than gold has been. Even if you take platinum at its recent peak of around $2000, we're still only talking about the platinum vs gold difference as being another $20-60 for the price of the nib, which isn't that big of a deal when you're talking about an expensive pen.

 

Regarding the market- luxury pen companies seem to have found that consumers prefer 18k and 21k nibs when they think of luxury pens- even if it makes for crappier nibs. I don't see why the luxury pen market wouldn't go for something new and exotic like a platinum nib. I frankly don't see how it can write much worse than most modern gold nibs. Pocket jewelry.

 

No, that isn't what I meant, I was making a general statement. I might have better said "How is a pen company that makes platinum nibs going to justify the expense to posible customers?"

 

For someone buying a $500-2000 pen, the added expense of $30-100 to have a pure platinum nib would likely make little difference to someone choosing that pen based on the perceived rarity or exclusivity of a pen with a platinum nib. Like when pens with 24k nibs make some people think "ooh! pure gold! now *that* is something special!"

 

[RevAaron]

A couple replies regarding flexible steel nibs...

 

Point taken. (You made me remember that I actually own one, an extremely flexible tracer pen!) But I think flexible steel nibs in fountain pens are very rare, or even unheard of?

It's far from my area of interest and experience, but I believe that many wartime German pens had very flexible steel nibs, though I own but one such example (an Osmia, if I recall).

 

Not just war time, but the pre-war era too. After WW2, nibs in general got less flexible around the world.

 

I've a number of steel nibs with great flex from before, during, and after WW2. Mostly German, but Italian too. I imagine there are others in the world, but I mostly do German pens. Definitely not an expert, I just happen to collect Lamy/Othos/Artus and Kaweco pens. I have an Artus (=Lamy) 23 with an SB (soft broad/stub) steel nib that is downright floppy! The tines widen to a good 3 mm+ without too much pressure. It's just as hard to adjust as most gold nibs- the flex makes it hard to bend a tine to realign it. The other that comes to mind is a dashed-line steel nib on a 1930s Kaweco Sport- long, thin tines that open up to a good 5 mm, flexing with very little force. That Artus SB nib is really something else, a real treat.

 

I do have a couple wartime pens as well, specifically an MB 334 1/2 with a steel nib that is also quite flexible.

 

What a lot of people don't know about flexy steel is that the flexing can be just as smooth and sensual (for lack of better word) as the nicest gold nibs, with good return. When most people think of flexible steel nibs, they think of Esterbrook's "flexible" nibs, like OldGriz pointed to- they think of nibs that can flex but need *a lot* of pressure to do so, or with sort of a harsh springiness. That isn't a property of steel, but of alloy, temper and design.

 

This thread has shown me that I really do need to make a post with a few flexible steel nibs in it. I did some writing sample for this a while back, but never posted it. I wish I had that notebook and those pens with me at work, it'd be a fun lunch break diversion.

 

The Pelikan m200's steel nib is probably the most flexible you'll find now. I was surprised at the flexibility, it beats most of my gold pens in that respect.

 

Is it a newer M200? With all due respect, I'd have to say you should try some vintage nibs, both steel and gold if you want to play with some real flex. Modern gold nibs aren't particularly flexible either, though.

 

I only ask if it's a newer M200 because I've an old style M200 with a surprisingly flexible nib (pre-Bock) from the mid 1990s. Much more flexible than the newer M150 or M200 nibs I've used.

 

A modernish steel nib with some flex is the older style Kaweco Sports. They changed the nib and feed design within the last few years, making for a less springy and less flexy nib, but I have a Diplomat branded Kaweco Sport from the 1990s or early 2000s and a Sport Ice from a few years ago that both have a fair degree of flex, at least in terms of modern pens- with no pressure, it writes at 0.4mm, and flexes to 1.0 mm without too much pressure.

 

There is a writing sample in this blog post by Richard Binder that has a similar level of flex as these earlier modern Sports. Maybe even a bit more flex in this Sport.

 

Just like gold, how flexible a steel nib is depends on nib shape and the alloy used. "Stainless steel" is not a specific recipe for a single kind of steel, but an umbrella term covering many different kinds of steel.

 

Aaron

(I apologize for letting this get so long! but ... I love a good flexy german pen! )

Edited December 18, 2008 by RevAaron

[Randal6393]

Platinum -- from what little I know of it -- is a harder metal and somewhat difficult to work. Making it an expensive material to make nibs out of. That, I think, may be more why an all-Platinum pen didn't do too well.

 

Either gold or steel, flexible nibs just don't seem to be made much any more. At least, for a fountain pen. I never developed a good hand for Copperplate and prefer Italic, so don't need a flexible nib. But I do have a lovely Hero 2031A with a 12K gold nib that makes a fine (~ 0.5 mm) italic nib. It's an impressive pen, with a lot of pizzazz in it's looks. So I normally carry it for my Agenda notes. It does not write any better -- or any worse -- than any of my other pens. That includes a Pelikan Technixx and a Scheaffer Prelude (modern). All my other pens have steel nibs and I haven't noticed any pitting or corrosion on any of my pens. I guess I will order the pen for reasons other than the nib material.

 

Am eagerly awaiting a Jinhao Great Wall with a 14K gold nib and a Gui Guan with a steel nib. Expect both to be great writers.

 

Blessed be,