Correct practice?

[scratchy]

I read something somewhere sometime about movement for handwriting supposed to come from the shoulder, or at least I think I did (my memory is a bit rubbish).

 

Is it correct for the best handwriting to come from the shoulder or is it the wrist? Up till now I have had a tendency to 'draw' the letters with my fingers but try as I might, I can't get my handwriting to look good so I want to try something different. I have had a look at the links but didn't find what I originally read about this.

 

Today I managed to write a few words 'from the shoulder' and it seemed to be better, but i have very little control.

[fastercat]

I recently came across the 'don't use the fingers, move the shoulder' mantra from this site: http://www.paperpenalia.com/handwriting.html I found it while googling for "improving handwriting". I'd also recomend Write Now, a book on using italic to improve your handwriting. I found it at the library in the caligraphy section.

[scratchy]

Thanks fastercat, that was the article I read!!

[ralphawilson]

I read that article too, and I try to put the idea to work, but it's not so easy. Writing is something I've been doing (fairly poorly) for 50 years or so. I have trouble visualizing the shoulder generating such fine movement, but I do better when I try to just get my whole arm moving as I write rather than just my hand and wrist.

[Titivillus]

Do what you like. Large muscles are not going to have the fine motor control that the fingers have, as well trying to relearn muscle memory will take time.

 

Kurt

[scratchy]

I think I shall make the effort to try it as it might improve my drawing (rejoining a life drawing class in the new year)

[sasdrtx]

I think the key to engaging your whole arm is to start by practicing writing big. It's very difficult to write two-inch high letters with only your fingers.

[RayMan]

I read something somewhere sometime about movement for handwriting supposed to come from the shoulder, or at least I think I did (my memory is a bit rubbish).

 

Is it correct for the best handwriting to come from the shoulder or is it the wrist? Up till now I have had a tendency to 'draw' the letters with my fingers but try as I might, I can't get my handwriting to look good so I want to try something different. I have had a look at the links but didn't find what I originally read about this.

 

Today I managed to write a few words 'from the shoulder' and it seemed to be better, but i have very little control.

 

I've often read the advice to "write from the shoulder girdle, and never move your fingers or wrist." I'm sure that many proficient writers and calligraphers put that advice it into practice, but I've never witnessed it. In fact, I've seen several online calligraphy demos, and the artists usually move their fingers (though they may be using their shoulder as well).

 

I shamelessly move my fingers and wrist while writing, as I feel necessary. I've tried to learn the "shoulder only" method, but it just doesn't work for me.

[thibaulthalpern]

I never could understand that "shoulder advice". In observing the way I write, I would say I'm a wrist-shoulder writer and not a finger-only or shoulder-only writer. Any videos demonstrating this "shoulder technique"?

[fastercat]

I think I shall make the effort to try it as it might improve my drawing (rejoining a life drawing class in the new year)

When I tried it I thought it would help drawing. I played with it a bit and it was much easier to make long details but still very unnatural. It would be interesting to see how brush users/painters feel about it since it would seem to be the only way to really use a brush. I'm not a brush user.

[scratchy]

Thanks for your input, fastercat. I'm interested in the correct way to use art materials too. I work on the same street as my art tutor so next time I see him I'll ask him about drawing from the shoulder vs brush use.

Edited December 11, 2008 by scratchy

[eilu]

Just want to say, from a Physical Therapist's perspective:

• shoulder = strong, mobile base for entire extremity (gross movements)
• elbow = serves the hand by apparent shortening/lengthening of extremity & additional mobility by rotation (like in turning doorknobs)
• hand = fine movements; the entire upper limb is subservient to the hand

So I'm not so sure about the "write with your shoulder" thing, although positioning and movements of the shoulder will affect the hand.

Edited December 12, 2008 by eilu

[Titivillus]

Just want to say, from a Physical Therapist's perspective:

• shoulder = strong, mobile base for entire extremity (gross movements)
• elbow = serves the hand by apparent shortening/lengthening of extremity & additional mobility by rotation (like in turning doorknobs)
• hand = fine movements; the entire upper limb is subservient to the hand

So I'm not so sure about the "write with your shoulder" thing, although positioning and movements of the shoulder will affect the hand.

 

 

Yes! agree totally.

[katim]

I can't make sense of using the shoulder - is that supposed to mean that the rest of the arm is 'fixed' and swinging the shoulder back and forward controls the pen? That sounds a pretty odd way of getting a quality result when there's so much more flexibility in the hand and wrist!

 

However, I have tried moving the whole forearm, with only a small amount of hand/wrist movement. It's quite an interesting exercise and, provided I wasn't trying to place the pen too accurately (e.g. on a guideline), I achieved quite a good flowing script. It was particularly easy to make good swashes for some reason, so the end result looked rather flamboyant! I don't think that at my age I'm going to take it up - I'd have too many years of writing to unlearn!

[fastercat]

Just want to say, from a Physical Therapist's perspective:

• shoulder = strong, mobile base for entire extremity (gross movements)
• elbow = serves the hand by apparent shortening/lengthening of extremity & additional mobility by rotation (like in turning doorknobs)
• hand = fine movements; the entire upper limb is subservient to the hand

So I'm not so sure about the "write with your shoulder" thing, although positioning and movements of the shoulder will affect the hand.

Did you read the article link? Maybe you can make more sense out of it and help us understand what they are trying to tell us?

 

 

[Journaleur]

I, too, have tried "writing from the shoulder" but have no idea as to how to go about doing this. I second the interest in a video showing this technique. Does one begin by writing on a white- or black-board with letters several inches high and then attempt to transfer this to paper? The idea sounds reasonable, especially for someone like me with residual carpal tunnel problems. But, to be repetitious, I have problems wrapping my psycho-motor cognitions around the actual doing. Thanks for any help on this. Anything that will help me in improving my handwriting is a benefit.

 

I should mention that since I have been reading the FPN over the past months and paying attention to the wonderful calligraphy and just "plain" handwriting, I have noticed an improvement in my penmanship. Osmosis anyone?

[musorah]

I recalled handwriting classes in the early primary grades in the late 50s doing whole arm loops clockwise and counter clockwise - maybe related to this from the Zaner-Bloser web site:

Entry Into Publishing

In 1904, Zaner-Bloser published The Zaner Method of Arm Movement, a landmark text that taught the simplified style of writing learned by students at the Zanerian to children in elementary schools all over the United States. This book also applied the findings of psychologists who had discovered that young children completed manual tasks more easily if allowed to use the large arm movements that were natural to them at their early stage of motor skills development.

 

Rick

 

[ralphawilson]

This thread has inspired me to look into this more carefully (thanks, Scratchy). I've found I can write reasonably well while holding my hand and fingers pretty still and just moving my arm (and shoulder, but the arm is what seems to be moving). I find it helps a lot to have the writing surface be the right height, which is maybe a little lower than I usually use. This allows my arm to swing more freely. The arm is not moving dramatically, just sufficiently to write normal-sized letters. The result is not great, but it looks like my handwriting and it might have a tad more 'swing' to it. I think with some practice it would be possible to write at least as well this way, but it would take a commitment. Whether it would ultimately make a big difference is uncertain, but I'm going to keep experimenting with this 'armwriting' thing a bit more.

[eilu]

Did you read the article link? Maybe you can make more sense out of it and help us understand what they are trying to tell us?

 

Okay, here goes; I'll skip the parts on posture and grips and such and focus on what he says about the technique:

 

Author says: "A finger-writer puts the full weight of his/her hand on the paper, his fingers form the letters, and he picks his hand up repeatedly to move it across the paper as he writes."

Well, if you're bearing down on the paper using an FP then it is clearly wrong. Children do this a lot because of a lack of coordination; people with sensory problems/autism/similar conditions do this because they can't judge the amount of pressure they're putting on the pen (a good way to train for people with these conditions is to slip a thin piece of foam under the paper, as extra feedback). This doesn't mean that "finger writing" is inherently wrong.

 

Author says: "People for whom writing comes more easily may rest their hands fairly heavily on the paper, but their forearms and shoulders move as they write."

I'll have to agree. You can't just use your hand, as the arm is one interconnected unit- muscles in the hand, for example, also affect the wrist and elbow (and vice versa) and so on, so clearly the whole arm has to move.

Author says: "the "right muscles" are not those in the fingers. You must use the shoulder-girdle and forearm muscles. This muscle group is capable of much more intricate action than you think and tires much less easily than fingers, besides giving a smooth, clean, sweeping look to the finished writing. Though it seems paradoxical, since we’re accustomed to thinking of small muscles having better control, the shoulder-girdle group, once trained, does the job better."

Okay, now I have a problem. "muscles in the forearm" is the tricky part- a lot of your hand muscles start in the forearm, near the elbow, for leverage (since they are small) so "muscles in the forearm" = hand/finger muscles, but you're... not supposed to use finger muscles?

Shoulder girdle muscles tire less- yes, true- because their job is to hold your shoulder in place; the shoulder had to trade off a lot of stability (ligaments, like in the hip) for mobility, so it is very reliant on muscles to keep it in place; this is why conditions like dislocation and impingement are so common in the shoulder. The shoulder is NOT for fine movements, the hand is- that's why the brain devotes such a large area for controlling the hand, and the shoulder/elbow get lumped together as "arm". Using the shoulder for fine movements can be done, but you'll need ages of practice to allow your brain to adapt itself.

 

Conclusion: The article seems largely erroneous. The starting premise that you use your entire arm to write is correct, but the conclusion that you use your shoulder to make fine movements is wrong; this is like using a big crane to pick up a brick. Stick to using the hand for the actual letter formation, although the whole arm must move (i.e., don't plant your hand firmly in one area)

 

--Appendix (you can skip this part)--

Now, why? Clearly the author is well-versed in calligraphy and is not intentionally tying to mislead people- allow me to extrapolate a little. Procedural memory (memory on how to do things) is largely unconscious, and served by entirely different set of nerves and connections, which is why you may be a very good cyclist or dancer, but you cannot easily explain how without demonstrating. What may be happening here is that the conscious mind (frontal lobe) is making an erroneous conclusion (people who write with moving shoulder write better = shoulder muscles better for writing) because it cannot zccess the unconscious movement memory (in the cerebellum). This is the same as a pro baseball player stating he can "see the ball onto the bat" as the reason he's very good. In truth, he can't. It happens too fast for human reflexes and cognition- what is actually happening is that all the experience he's had from hours and hours of practice kicks in and allows him to make adjustments and (very accurate) predictions, so it only seems that way, and that is how the conscious mind will explain it.

 

sources upon request; hope I haven't gone overboard and bored anyone.

 

note: if you're writing HUGE (man-size) letters, such as for a banner or mural, then it is correct to use your shoulder to write as the scale renders these as gross movements.

Edited December 13, 2008 by eilu

[henrico]

Using your arm in conjunction with wrist and fingers produces a variety of inputs required for all parts of a letter/word. Since your arm is attached to your shoulder, it's a given that the shoulder will also enter the picture but only to move your arm. I don't think that. whoever suggested writing with your shoulder, meant it to be as we discuss it here. I don't think it's possible to write with fingers alone. As I write now, I see my hand moving and since my hand is attached to my wrist, my wrist also moves. And since my wrist is attached to my arm, my arm also moves a tiny bit. And since my arm is attached to my shoulder, my shoulder must move but the inputs are so small, they are undetectable. It all depends how much reach you need to make a letter. For cursive, inputs from the shoulder would be tiny and unnoticeable. IMO. Edited December 13, 2008 by henrico