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Don't Cry for Me Argentina........


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OldGriz

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 16:35

Well I just had my third Argentine Parker Factory pen delivered this past weekend....
Jesey Kullock hand delivered the pen I won on eBay at the Columbus Show... sure beat waiting over a week for international postage delivery....
This is another Parker 61 MK II..... but this one also comes with a Parker 61 MK II ballpoint.... and they are Flighters in the original box...
Parker 61 ballpoint pens are not all that easy to find..... so this is a rather special deal, at least IMO
The pen sports a nib that I would classify as between an accountant and a XF and has just a slightest touch of tooth... a lot better than most nibs this fine....
It has a nice size ball of tipping for a nib this size, almost like you would find on English nibs... I would guess that is why is writes so nicely...
The section is an amazing color blue, a lot nicer than the picture shows....
All in all they are an almost mint condition set..... I flushed the pen completely and filled it with Sheaffer Skrip Black...
Oh, BTW, for those who do not know... the Argentine factory 61s are not capillary or cartridge/converter fillers....
They are squeeze fillers like a Parker 51 Aerometric... but I do not believe they have breather tubes.... both of the ones I have only take 2-3 squeezes to fill...
So, here are the pics including a writing sample...


[attachment=36426:61XF.jpg]

[attachment=36427:61XF2.jpg]

[attachment=36428:61XFWrite.jpg]

TomPosted Image
A veteran is someone who wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'
That is Honor, and there are way too many people in This country who no longer understand it.

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#2 SquelchB

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 16:40

Mysterious dots strike again! Beautiful pen...

And I think the Aerometric filler might be more user-friendly than either the capillary or C/C.

#3 Tommy

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 17:30

Very nice set. The blue section looks great with stainless. And thanks for the info you gave me Sun. afternoon about 51 breather tubes.


#4 ethernautrix

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 17:58

Oo, pretty!

I like that the color is under the cap, so to speak. Very nice!

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#5 Fernan

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 19:14

Congratulations on the acquisition. I envy you.

Fernan

#6 skybird

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 23:55

QUOTE (SquelchB @ Nov 12 2008, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mysterious dots strike again! Beautiful pen...

And I think the Aerometric filler might be more user-friendly than either the capillary or C/C.

The dots are the Kullocks' way of making a 51 shell a 61. And I think they are more stable than the arrow on the 61.
Gotta agree, the aerometric is by far the best of the three mentioned, (and of all four if you include the converter with its tiny capacity.....................)
Sic Transit Gloria

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#7 OldGriz

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 00:12

QUOTE (skybird @ Nov 11 2008, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (SquelchB @ Nov 12 2008, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mysterious dots strike again! Beautiful pen...

And I think the Aerometric filler might be more user-friendly than either the capillary or C/C.

The dots are the Kullocks' way of making a 51 shell a 61. And I think they are more stable than the arrow on the 61.
Gotta agree, the aerometric is by far the best of the three mentioned, (and of all four if you include the converter with its tiny capacity.....................)


This IS NOT a Kullock made 61.. .this is a Parker Argentine factory made pen and all the Argentine factory made 61s have the two dots....

TomPosted Image
A veteran is someone who wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'
That is Honor, and there are way too many people in This country who no longer understand it.

#8 wvbeetlebug

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:37

This must be what you were telling me about. It's beautiful! Looks like a smooth wet writer. Just how I like them. tongue.gif

:happycloud9:

 

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#9 jonro

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 02:52

Quite nice, Tom. You do find some terrific pens from time to time.

#10 sumgaikid

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:15

Good-looking set Tom!

John
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#11 Thornton

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:52

Great pen from somewhere I hope to visit in the near future. Congratulations!
"Instant gratification takes too long."-Carrie Fisher

#12 MYU

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 04:44

Nice write-up, Tom. I'll link it in the Pen Review index. smile.gif

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#13 fibreglass_works

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:34

QUOTE (OldGriz @ Nov 12 2008, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This IS NOT a Kullock made 61.. .this is a Parker Argentine factory made pen and all the Argentine factory made 61s have the two dots....


It is important for us not to mix up Kullock made and Parker made.......... mad.gif

Good find, Nice but set but what is the $$? drool.gif

#14 richardandtracy

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:29

The section colour is really nice.
The plan view of the section is like a cross between a P61 & a P51. I suspect they made their own mould tools, and ended up with a hybrid shape unlike either the standard P51 or P61.

Does anyone know if Argentinian P61's use a different material for the section? If they did, then they may be immune from the usual P61 self destruction problems.

Regards

Richard.


#15 Titivillus

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 13:13

QUOTE (fibreglass_works @ Nov 12 2008, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (OldGriz @ Nov 12 2008, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This IS NOT a Kullock made 61.. .this is a Parker Argentine factory made pen and all the Argentine factory made 61s have the two dots....


It is important for us not to mix up Kullock made and Parker made.......... mad.gif

Good find, Nice but set but what is the $$? drool.gif


Probably the confusion came with it being delivered by Jesey Kullock.


#16 london

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 22:31

Beautiful set Tom. Elegant handwriting sample too.

- Mark

#17 Tito

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 03:45

QUOTE (fibreglass_works @ Nov 12 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (OldGriz @ Nov 12 2008, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This IS NOT a Kullock made 61.. .this is a Parker Argentine factory made pen and all the Argentine factory made 61s have the two dots....


It is important for us not to mix up Kullock made and Parker made.......... mad.gif

Good find, Nice but set but what is the $$? drool.gif


First of all, Congrats for the nice pens! They do look great.

About the price, of course I know nothing about this particular set, but, as I "hunt" in the argentinean market I think I can give you some idea of prices. They vary A LOT from place to place. I got my first "61" "Made in USA" with nickel rainbow cap and black barrel for $100 US dollars from a guy who is a specialist in vintage pen. My second 61 is also US made with black barrel with a rainbow cap alternating green gold and pink gold stripes, with a broken clip but fully working, $35 dollars in an used furniture shop (maybe they found the pen in a drawer). About two weeks ago, I saw a P61 MK II made in Argentina with the two dots instead of the arrow in the section, cap and barrel gold filled (a Signet?) at a street flea market and I was asked $35 dollars for it. I turned down the offer (I had just bought my first P51 a couple of days before and spent my meagre budget there).

Hope the info is helpful.
Best regards.

Tito

#18 DovR

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 04:34

I always thought that the Kullock's bought what was left of the Argentina Paker plant. Is this not the case.

Yes you're right Tom. Jesy is a very sweet person and will be with us at our upcoming pen club meeting displaying + selling their wares end of the month after the Barcelona show. She'll have chance to visit her family as well as the local pen scene and we look forward to her visit.


BTW have you taken a look at the Israel sterling silver LE that I commissioned from them, it's a great pen. The "budget" model available with sterling silver cap and resin body, intermediate in all stainless and the luxury all sterling silver. For a hand made customized silver LE price is not that high all things considered.

Please peruse http://www.fountainp...l=Parker israel

let me know what you think/

Rgds
Dov

QUOTE ((bleep) @ Nov 12 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (fibreglass_works @ Nov 12 2008, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (OldGriz @ Nov 12 2008, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This IS NOT a Kullock made 61.. .this is a Parker Argentine factory made pen and all the Argentine factory made 61s have the two dots....


It is important for us not to mix up Kullock made and Parker made.......... mad.gif

Good find, Nice but set but what is the $$? drool.gif


Probably the confusion came with it being delivered by Jesey Kullock.



#19 OldGriz

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 14:18

QUOTE (DovR @ Nov 14 2008, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I always thought that the Kullock's bought what was left of the Argentina Paker plant. Is this not the case.

Yes you're right Tom. Jesy is a very sweet person and will be with us at our upcoming pen club meeting displaying + selling their wares end of the month after the Barcelona show. She'll have chance to visit her family as well as the local pen scene and we look forward to her visit.


BTW have you taken a look at the Israel sterling silver LE that I commissioned from them, it's a great pen. The "budget" model available with sterling silver cap and resin body, intermediate in all stainless and the luxury all sterling silver. For a hand made customized silver LE price is not that high all things considered.

Please peruse http://www.fountainp...l=Parker israel

let me know what you think/

Rgds
Dov


It is very likely that Ariel did buy a lot of the parts left over from the retired Argentine plant... but I believe that it was mostly internals as I was told that was virtually all that was left when the doors were closed. This is why Ariel makes the bodies for his pens....
BUT, there are still a lot of original Argentine factory made pens available all over South America.... and three well respected collectors told me that this set was original...
Most interesting at the Columbus Show was meeting Carlos Almeida from Brazil. He is one who confirmed that the pen was original...
What was really interesting in discussing South American Parkers with Carlos was his showing me 4 Parker 51s and 61s that are marked as having been produced in Brazil, not Argentina.
I did not know that Parker had set up a production facility in Brazil.... Carlos said it was short lived and most South American Parkers came from Argentina...
I guess I will now have to search out a Brazilian made 51 for my collection.... I really should have grabbed one at the show, but did not think about it at the time...
Carlos remarked that he was rather disturbed that the SA Parkers do not get the attention he feels they deserve. In his opinion (and now mine) they are every bit as well made as any Parker made in the US, England or Canada. In fact, I find the squeeze bar filler system of the Argentine 61 MkIIs that I have a lot more user friendly than a capillary filler....
Also on all three of my Argentine made Parkers (2 61 MKII and a 51 Flighter), I find the tipping to be more in line with the English nibs than US nibs...
The 61 set above has a nib I would classify as on the fine side of XF and it has a larger ball of tipping than any of my other US made Parker XF nibs....

That Sterling Israel is a stunning pen.... again another example of Ariel's fantastic artwork....

TomPosted Image
A veteran is someone who wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'
That is Honor, and there are way too many people in This country who no longer understand it.

#20 DovR

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 10:05

Thanks for the elucidaTION Tom. Yup, you got a real good deal and nice set .

Re overseas Parker manufacturing; Olsen pen co in Denmark (Penol , Big Ben Skribent and also MB) made pens under parker name, Williamson in Italy (Duofolds and Vacs), there was a parker plant in India and i understand Australia as well but I may be wrong. I hope to meet Carlso if and when i get to Brazil again, one of my favorite places in the world! Wife is a"carioca" native of Rio. So lot of varieties of the same good ol' Parks. Similarly waterman who had an Indian and Oz manufacturing facility in addition to the states and France.

We're looking forward to Jesi Kullock's visit here and all fpn'ers and aficionados cordially invited to Kibutz Gaash on the Med, Fri Nov 28th from 10-12 for some good pen talk and ambiance, "horse" trading and meeting the locals.

Best
D



QUOTE (OldGriz @ Nov 15 2008, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (DovR @ Nov 14 2008, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I always thought that the Kullock's bought what was left of the Argentina Paker plant. Is this not the case.

Yes you're right Tom. Jesy is a very sweet person and will be with us at our upcoming pen club meeting displaying + selling their wares end of the month after the Barcelona show. She'll have chance to visit her family as well as the local pen scene and we look forward to her visit.


BTW have you taken a look at the Israel sterling silver LE that I commissioned from them, it's a great pen. The "budget" model available with sterling silver cap and resin body, intermediate in all stainless and the luxury all sterling silver. For a hand made customized silver LE price is not that high all things considered.

Please peruse http://www.fountainp...l=Parker israel

let me know what you think/

Rgds
Dov


It is very likely that Ariel did buy a lot of the parts left over from the retired Argentine plant... but I believe that it was mostly internals as I was told that was virtually all that was left when the doors were closed. This is why Ariel makes the bodies for his pens....
BUT, there are still a lot of original Argentine factory made pens available all over South America.... and three well respected collectors told me that this set was original...
Most interesting at the Columbus Show was meeting Carlos Almeida from Brazil. He is one who confirmed that the pen was original...
What was really interesting in discussing South American Parkers with Carlos was his showing me 4 Parker 51s and 61s that are marked as having been produced in Brazil, not Argentina.
I did not know that Parker had set up a production facility in Brazil.... Carlos said it was short lived and most South American Parkers came from Argentina...
I guess I will now have to search out a Brazilian made 51 for my collection.... I really should have grabbed one at the show, but did not think about it at the time...
Carlos remarked that he was rather disturbed that the SA Parkers do not get the attention he feels they deserve. In his opinion (and now mine) they are every bit as well made as any Parker made in the US, England or Canada. In fact, I find the squeeze bar filler system of the Argentine 61 MkIIs that I have a lot more user friendly than a capillary filler....
Also on all three of my Argentine made Parkers (2 61 MKII and a 51 Flighter), I find the tipping to be more in line with the English nibs than US nibs...
The 61 set above has a nib I would classify as on the fine side of XF and it has a larger ball of tipping than any of my other US made Parker XF nibs....

That Sterling Israel is a stunning pen.... again another example of Ariel's fantastic artwork....








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