Give me the best example of these fillers.

[randyholhut]

Dude...

Sorta forgot about Waterman...

 

 

 

Not to quibble, Bill, but here's why I gave Sheaffer perhaps too much credit for the cartridge pen.

 

I know Waterman was first with the cartridge, but how many of those Waterman C/Fs do you see around these days?

 

Sheaffer made millions of cartridge pens over the past 50 years and the oldest of them can still use today's Sheaffer ink carts. I see a lot more Sheaffers from the late 1950s and early 1960s than I do Waterman C/Fs. That's why I consider them the first commerically successful cartridge pen. There are simply a lot more of them around and the carts for them are still being made, as opposed to the C/F.

 

So we're both right. Waterman's had the first successful modern cartridge pen, but Sheaffer had the cartridge pen (mainly, the School Pen, in all of its varients) that sold the most copies for the longest period of time (other than the Parker 45).

 

As for the lever filler, Walter A. Sheaffer got the patent for it in 1908. Waterman's came up with a similar, but not identical design, a couple of years later.

 

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Actually, I would take issue with the Waterman 52 as the best example of the lever-filler. Frankly, the Waterman lever-box design is one of the poorer examples of a lever-filler. In trying to get around the Sheaffer patents, Waterman used a metal lever-box that is very fragile and prone to breaking. While it is a perfectly functional design, it has no performance advantage over Sheaffers.

 

I think Waterman filling systems are generally unremarkable until you get up into the ink-vue fillers and the C/F. They were generally followers with their filling systems. What made Waterman outstanding was their feeds and nibs.

 

I would give Waterman the title of quintisenntial eyedropper.

 

John

[Piano Player]

Cartridge-- Montblanc Travelor or cross. Each holds a cartridge in the nib, and a spare in the barrel.

[sleek_lover]

Cartridge-- Montblanc Travelor or cross. Each holds a cartridge in the nib, and a spare in the barrel.

Actually, a goodly percentage of the short international cart fillers do that. 'Tis not that unusual...

[tryphon]

Dude...

Sorta forgot about Waterman...

 

 

 

Not to quibble, Bill, but here's why I gave Sheaffer perhaps too much credit for the cartridge pen.

 

I know Waterman was first with the cartridge, but how many of those Waterman C/Fs do you see around these days?

 

Sheaffer made millions of cartridge pens over the past 50 years and the oldest of them can still use today's Sheaffer ink carts. I see a lot more Sheaffers from the late 1950s and early 1960s than I do Waterman C/Fs. That's why I consider them the first commerically successful cartridge pen. There are simply a lot more of them around and the carts for them are still being made, as opposed to the C/F.

 

So we're both right. Waterman's had the first successful modern cartridge pen, but Sheaffer had the cartridge pen (mainly, the School Pen, in all of its varients) that sold the most copies for the longest period of time (other than the Parker 45).

 

As for the lever filler, Walter A. Sheaffer got the patent for it in 1908. Waterman's came up with a similar, but not identical design, a couple of years later.

 

 

Cartridge pens....

Actually, could be the subject of an interesting article!

First: the glass cartridge predates the Waterman glass cartridge (Eagle pen, 1890).

Second: the plastic cartridge was not invented by Waterman (Aurora DuoCart, 1954). Waterman succeeded in having the italian Aurora patent sit untouched in the U.S. Patent office for almost a year, while Waterman filed a patent of its own (Oh, yes, it is true!).

Third: while the CF was hugely successful, I believe the lowly LUS Atomica sold in larger quantities. It was dubbed the "fountain pen that will replece the ballpoint"!! Talk about an aggressive slogan!

Details on the LUS pens can be found in this writer's modest LUS Atomica website.

 

LUS Atomica

 

P.S.: I love the Waterman's CF.

Edited February 28, 2006 by tryphon

[Penturner]

How about a few really different ones like Coin Filler and Sleeve Filler. I would love to know more about uncommon filler mechs.

 

Allan

Lets not forget the Venerable "Conklin Crescent"!

[sleek_lover]

Cartridge pens....

Actually, could be the subject of an interesting article!

First: the glass cartridge predates the Waterman glass cartridge (Eagle pen, 1890).

Second: the plastic cartridge was not invented by Waterman (Aurora DuoCart, 1954). Waterman succeeded in having the italian Aurora patent sit untouched in the U.S. Patent office for almost a year, while Waterman filed a patent of its own (Oh, yes, it is true!).

Third: while the CF was hugely successful, I believe the lowly LUS Atomica sold in larger quantities. It was dubbed the "fountain pen that will replece the ballpoint"!! Talk about an aggressive slogan!

Details on the LUS pens can be found in this writer's modest LUS Atomica website.

 

LUS Atomica

 

P.S.: I love the Waterman's CF.

Mornin' Giovanni,

Ah, another lover of the Harley Earl designed C/F. Very few pens have a designer that are so clearly identified as their progenitor. The C/F is one of them. I wrote a little piece for a now defunct pen mag.

 

Actually, I was very VERY careful in my wording...the C/F was the first COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL cart filler. The glass carts had been around for a goodly while, and I had been aware of other cartridge attempts, but Waterman did it right. If there was some political chicanry...maybe they studied THE PRINCE...who knows : <_<

 

As to the industrial espionage...yeppers, happens all the time. When I was doing executive retained search, it was not unusual to get a client who wanted a person recruited out of a specific company. I have been asked to recruit a named person because of his/her specific talents and/or knowledge. I would always take those. They were fun. I always negiotiated a nice bonus for the person and me...

 

Bill..who used to be very mercinary.

[tryphon]

Mornin' Giovanni,

Ah, another lover of the Harley Earl designed C/F.  Very few pens have a designer that are so clearly identified as their progenitor.  The C/F is one of them.  I wrote a little piece for a now defunct pen mag.

 

Actually, I was very VERY careful in my wording...the C/F was the first COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL cart filler.  The glass carts had been around for a goodly while, and I had been aware of other cartridge attempts, but Waterman did it right.  If there was some political chicanry...maybe they studied THE PRINCE...who knows :  <_<

 

As to the industrial espionage...yeppers, happens all the time.  When I was doing executive retained search, it was not unusual to get a client who wanted a person recruited out of a specific company.  I have been asked to recruit a named person because of his/her specific talents and/or knowledge.  I would always take those.  They were fun.  I always negiotiated a nice bonus for the person and me...

 

Bill..who used to be very mercinary.

Mornin' Bill!

You are correct, I did notice that you qualified the statement about "commercially successful"!

I just grabbed the opportunity to mention some other cartridge pens of historical import!

I am really tempted to write an article on cartridge pens. There are lots of interesting titbits: for instance, the cartridge used by Aurora for the original DuoCart was designed by Prof. Natta, who a few years later was awarded the Nobel Prize for chemistry for his role in inventing an advanced polypropylene plastic. And, incidentally, his cartridge design was a lot better in terms of ink capacity and flow than the small international cartridge that supllented it!

Great stuff, pens!!!!

I always enjoy your posts! (and loved the Machiavellian reference!!)

Edited March 1, 2006 by tryphon

[Blorgy]

OHHHH GOOD LORD WIMG!!!!

Is "Lord Wim" the correct form of address ?

[sleek_lover]

How about a few really different ones like Coin Filler and Sleeve Filler. I would love to know more about uncommon filler mechs.

 

Allan

Lets not forget the Venerable "Conklin Crescent"!

Not sure about the sleeve filler, but I would opine that the coin and cresent fillers are basically modifications of the lever filler...and if we want to get really REALLY fussy, the button filler is a modified lever filler as well...but that is "pushing" the point probably too far...

 

 

Bill...who did go for the cheep pun...

[Johnny Appleseed]

Not sure about the sleeve filler, but I would opine that the coin and cresent fillers are basically modifications of the lever filler...and if we want to get really REALLY fussy, the button filler is a modified lever filler as well...but that is "pushing" the point probably too far...

 

Historically, wouldn't it be fairer to say that the coin and lever fillers are modifications of the Crescent filler?

 

John

[Gatorade]

Results are in!

 

Cartridge - Namiki

 

Converter No clear winner here all recieved one vote each: Platinum, Sheaffer Intrigue, Parker 4, LUS Atomica.

 

Piston - Pelikan With special mention to the 100

 

Lever - Esterbrook

 

Touchdown - Sheaffer With special mention to the PFM?

 

Snorkel – Sheaffer

 

Vacumatic - Parker With special mention to the 52 Vac

 

Aeromatic - Parker With special mention to the 51

 

Vacuum Plunger - Sheaffer With special mention to the Vac-Fil

 

Button - Parker With special mention to the Duofold

 

Eyedropper Waterman With special mention to the 12

 

Write in: (Crescent- Conklin, Stipula) (Capillary: Parker 61)

 

 

 

Thanks for all the input on this I know we could have discussions on each winner and why the won but that is the topic for another thread! :roflmho:

 

Thanks

Charlie