Parker Pens made in Argentina?

[TMann]

I have a question for the pen history folks: Why are some Parker pens listed as being made in Argentina, or from Argentina? Was there another line of pens manufactured there by Parker? Is there any difference in quality with these pens?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

TMann

[DrPJM1]

There was a Parker factory in Argentina.

It still produces Parker copies or "fantasy" pens with the original machines.

[TMann]

There was a Parker factory in Argentina.

It still produces Parker copies or "fantasy" pens with the original machines.

So Parker's made in Argentina aren't technically authentic Parker's?

 

TMann

[DrPJM1]

It all depends on your definition of "Parker"'s.

[tryphon]

There was a Parker factory in Argentina.

It still produces Parker copies or "fantasy" pens with the original machines.

No, that is not accurate. There are people in Argentina who bought some of the Parker machines and who make small numbers of fancy Parkers. The Argentine cartridge- fed Parker 61 is an excellent pen and usually can be found at good prices.

[sleek_lover]

So Parker's made in Argentina aren't technically authentic Parker's?

 

TMann

If that were the case then by your stunning logic the Nissans made in Kentucky or the Fords made in Canada and Mexico aren't real Nissans or Fords.

 

Esterbrooks were made in England (in fact, the family immigrated FROM England) as well as in New York and later New Joisey.

 

Parkers were made in England and Canada (I have examples of both) as well as somewhere the hell in Scandanavia (where it was escapes me right now) as well as in Wisconsin.

 

I have Waterman C/Fs crafted in the US, Canada and France.

 

So, it would seem your comment is both specious and silly...

 

Bill...tired and crabby....

 

PS--learn to use apostrophes correctly...or risk a visit from the Committee for the Proper use of the Apostrophe

Edited February 25, 2006 by paircon01

[TMann]

So Parker's made in Argentina aren't technically authentic Parker's?

 

TMann

If that were the case then by your stunning logic the Nissans made in Kentucky or the Fords made in Canada and Mexico aren't real Nissans or Fords.

 

Esterbrooks were made in England (in fact, the family immigrated FROM England) as well as in New York and later New Joisey.

 

Parkers were made in England and Canada (I have examples of both) as well as somewhere the hell in Scandanavia (where it was escapes me right now) as well as in Wisconsin.

 

I have Waterman C/Fs crafted in the US, Canada and France.

 

So, it would seem your comment is both specious and silly...

 

Bill...tired and crabby....

 

PS--learn to use apostrophes correctly...or risk a visit from the Committee for the Proper use of the Apostrophe

LOL...Hey Bill...relax. I don't think that you understood my question.

 

Yes, I realize that many, many products are manufactured in countries that are different from the parent corporation. Globalization is something that we're all aware of.

 

My question stems from some vague recollection I had of Parker manufacturing equipment being sold by the company, and then being used by others to manufacture "imitation" Parkers. If the pens that are being produced in Argentina are being sold by the Parker Corporation, than of course, they are "authentic" Parkers. However, if they were being sold by someone else, and being branded as Parkers, than I think it would be reasonable to question their "authenticity."

 

Looking at the previous comments, it appears that there is some question of whether or not those Argentinean Parkers are being sold by Parker, or by someone else. So my question and subsequent comment were neither specious, nor silly.

 

However, I do agree that I added an unnessary apostrophe in the word "Parker's".

 

Have a good evening.

 

TMann

[TMann]

There was a Parker factory in Argentina.

It still produces Parker copies or "fantasy" pens with the original machines.

No, that is not accurate. There are people in Argentina who bought some of the Parker machines and who make small numbers of fancy Parkers. The Argentine cartridge- fed Parker 61 is an excellent pen and usually can be found at good prices.

I think the relevant question here is this: Who is selling those pens? Is the Parker company the one that is producing them and selling them? Or has someone else taken the Parker design and started reproducing exact replicas pens. I don't doubt that they're great pens, but if someone else is making them without the oversight of the Parker company, than it doesn't seem that they should technically be called Parkers.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

TMann

[sleek_lover]

Or morning, as the case may be...

 

Okay...I relent...sorry...

 

I would like to see/buy one or two of them, just to add to the collection...

 

Who are the purveyors of the beasts...

[TMann]

Or morning, as the case may be...

 

Okay...I relent...sorry...

Hey, no worries. I often don't state my questions and comments very clearly. It drives my wife crazy, though we've been married long enough that she usually understands what I meant to say.

 

And I will try to be more meticulous with my punctuation from now on. It actually bugs me a bit when people don't use "its" and "it's" properly.

 

TMann

[Carrie]

I've come across a few of the Argentinian P61s on EBay being sold by Ariel Kullock, I've not bought one, but it is fascinating to see 61s and 51s in such unusual colours.

[Onion]

So Parker's made in Argentina aren't technically authentic Parker's?

 

TMann

If that were the case then by your stunning logic the Nissans made in Kentucky or the Fords made in Canada and Mexico aren't real Nissans or Fords.

 

Esterbrooks were made in England (in fact, the family immigrated FROM England) as well as in New York and later New Joisey.

 

Parkers were made in England and Canada (I have examples of both) as well as somewhere the hell in Scandanavia (where it was escapes me right now) as well as in Wisconsin.

 

I have Waterman C/Fs crafted in the US, Canada and France.

 

So, it would seem your comment is both specious and silly...

 

Bill...tired and crabby....

 

PS--learn to use apostrophes correctly...or risk a visit from the Committee for the Proper use of the Apostrophe

Wow, hard to get happy after that one!!!! lol.....

[Glenn-SC]

That's like saying the guns Taurus makes in Brazil are Berettas, because they are made on the original equipment that Beretta used to make them!

 

Nope.

 

Taurus makes Tauruses (Taurii?)

 

The folks in Brazil are making replacement shells for 51s and 61s, just like Chris Burton makes replacement bindes for Pelikans, but doesn't make Pelikans.

[saintsimon]

That Scandinavian country where Parkers were produced is Denmark.

[Rique]

Parker pens were made not only in Argentina, but also in Brazil. I´ve got a bunch of 51s, 61 and 45s made there. Their quality, however, is a bit dubious.

I dind´t know about they were still making shells in Brazil. I have often wondered about what happened to the Parker machinery - perhaps they did like the Chinese, who took up the machines after Parker left them, and put them back to work...

[sleek_lover]

That Scandinavian country where Parkers were produced is Denmark.

Yep...thanks...I was having a senior moment...called a old man's brain fart. And I own one...

 

Again..thanks...

 

Bill

[Johnny Appleseed]

I believe that the Parker corporation maintained a factory in Argentina and made Parker 51s and 61s that were genuine Parkers. In the 1990s, some folks in Argentina used original equipment and parts to make the Parker 51 Fantasy pens with custom colors and finishes. See the PenHero articles:

 

A Parker 51 Fantasy Trip - Part 1

 

A Parker 51 Fantasy Trip - Part 2

 

A Parker 51 Fantasy Trip - Part 3

 

I think the 51 Fantasy pens are more like Chris Burton's custom Bindes for Pelikans than the Hero nock-offs. They are custom pens that pay tribute to the 51, rather than an attempt to copy. I believe the older Argentinian 51s and 61s are legitimate Parkers.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

John

[Pablo]

I believe that the Parker corporation maintained a factory in Argentina and made Parker 51s and 61s that were genuine Parkers.

 

I believe the older Argentinian 51s and 61s are legitimate Parkers.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

John

John, you are completely right.

 

Parker had indeed a factory in Argentina, and there was a quite large local production, centered in a few models (51, 61, 45).

 

Don't be fooled by reports on patchy quality on modern Argentinian Parkers. The vintage Argentinian Parkers were done with the same exacting quality parameters than the US production (and probably better for 61s, as I don't recall hearing about cracked shells on two-point 61s).

 

The reason for Parker to setup their Argentinian factory was to avoid the import taxes, making their products fairly competitive against US-produced pens. This means that it is relatively easy (theoretically; more on this later) finding Parkers in Buenos Aires, but it is horribly difficult to find a Sheaffer, and what you find is mostly the low-end cartrigde pens of the 60's.

 

My wife (who is from Buenos Aires) recalls that, at school, Sheaffer was an outsider, despised as low-quality cheapies, and that 51s where universally regarded as THE pen. And mind you, we're speaking of people who had to make an non-trivial effort to buy such a pen, even locally-produced.

 

Regarding the known availability of Argentinian Parkers in eBay, I'm not so sure about them being made from original tooling (or made at all). The reasons:

 

1) Buenos Aires has around 13 million souls living in the city.

 

2) Pens were mandatory in school up to mid 80's.

 

3) Combine high population, high use and local factory and you'll get bootloads of old pens lying around waiting for you at antiques shops and flea markets...

 

Well, point 3 that was my idea last time I was in Buenos Aires. There are two major places to find pens there: the antiques shops in San Telmo and the "Mercado de las pulgas" (spanish literal translation for flea market) in Dorrego. Huge numbers of dealers, huge masses of old items lying around... but NO PENS worth the name!!.

 

The reason: every (and I mean EVERY) dealer I spoke with told me about that young guy Kullock who bought every pen worth anything (and an unfortunate byproduct is that prices were fairly high, even for parts pens).

 

So, I'm pretty sure that Ariel has a large cache of NOS Parker barrels and shells on which he (or his commissioned artists) can perform his remarkable artworks (like the hammered metal pens), and lots of genuine Parker NOS guts to recombine into new, uninked pens.

 

Regards

 

Pablo