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Nib size question


Lucinda

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I've been reading posts for a week or so now and am finally ready to start asking questions, I think.

 

I'm currently stalking a couple of fountain pens, but would like to be more certain about nib sizes and the size of line they produce. If anyone would be willing to post some pictures of sample writing with medium, fine and extra fine nibs, to let me see the difference, I would be eternally grateful. Just a word or two example of each would be lovely.

 

Long, long ago in an adolescence far, far away, I owned a fountain pen of some sort. After reading all your very specific posts, I'm ashamed to say I have no clue as to what kind it was, although I believe it was originally intended for calligraphy work. Regardless, I quickly settled into using the smallest nib and using it for journaling. Somewhere along the way to adulthood, it disappeared.

 

A few years ago my brother-in-law and his significant other gave me a dip pen with several nibs, and recently I've been using this more and more often and loving it. I'd like to have a fountain pen for mobility, though, as I often write in the car while waiting on my children. I love the line the dip pen produces, and I've always preferred fine point pens and .5 mechanical pencils, so I suspect a fine point (at least) FP will be my preference, but I'd like to see how it compares to the extra fine and the medium points at work.

 

Any comments, observations and/or advice about the different nib sizes are very, very welcome, as well!

Edited by Lucinda
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Welcome Lucinda!

 

This was posted on another pen board recently:

 

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/officeone/img10111314917.jpeg

 

That's the nib chart for japanese pens.

 

Here's a nib chart from Richard Binder's site:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/site/exemplaria/strokewidths_t.jpg

(Click to open or "Right-Click, Save-As" to save to your computer).

 

There certainly are a few caveats and generalizations about nibs such as "Japanese nibs tend to run finer than European/American nibs"; "There is a wide variation of nib sizes/widths from manufacturer to manufacturer"; etc., etc.,

 

I too prefer a finer line (i.e. Uniball Signo 207 Micro) and I've been mostly going with F/EF nibs.

 

Recently, I've been using some cursive-italic/stub medium (gasp) nibs - it provides some cool ink shading that the EF/F nibs aren't quite as good at making.

Edited by chainwhip

Geaux Tigers! Visça el Barça!

WTB: MB Kafka, Lamy Safari 2009 Orange, Pilot MYU (Black or Clear/White Stripe), Seiko FrankenTuna SKZ253 / SKZ255

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Very helpful charts! Thank you so much! One of the pens I'm waffling over is a Duke, so assuming the Chinese nib sizes run similar to the Japanese, that first chart, especially, is exactly what I need. (Am open to any correction on assumptions I may make, given my near-complete ignorance on FP matters.) :)

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I find pen nibs are like cloths, one manufacturers Medium is not the same as the next manufacturers Medium.

It's really best if you could find a brick and mortar store, or a friend with a selection, and try some different pens out.

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My Aurora EF is broader than my Namiki VP Fine, and my Sheaffer Fine is inbetween both. Wality Fine and Hero Fine are more like the Aurora EF. So it is not very consistent!

John in NC

 

The passion not to be fooled and not to fool anybody else..two searching questions of positivism: what do you mean? How do you know? (Bertrand Russell, Dominant Passion of The True Scientist)

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Ah. I begin to see the complexity of the situation, one made even more difficult by my living in the middle of (quite literally) a field in a particularly rural area. The cows here don't use FP's, can you believe it?

 

I guess this means I'll just have to buy extras for comparison, eh? ;)

 

Oh darn. :::satisfied grin:::

 

Have been poking about the board on and off today and am amazed at the amount of information you've got. This is a virtual goldmine of FP info!

 

Off to haunt the ink review forum in blissful anticipation.

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This is a virtual goldmine of FP info!

At least you didn't say a "Fountain of Information" :D

Best use of a pen:

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Gator_b8/DANNYSICOVER.jpg

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There was an article in the Kansas City Star this morning about the importance of beef cattle to the Missouri economy. Thanks for helping keep our economy moving!

 

Should you get to the Kansas City area, there is a good pen store in Crown Center. The people there genuinely enjoy showing off their pens and giving you the chance to do comparisons. Dennis at Parkville Pen (located just north of the river) works out of his home and is always glad to spend time with people who love fountain pens. You could make a great vacation out of just a couple of days visiting this area. Make an announcement if you will be in Kansas City and anyone from this area will be glad to tell you about things to see & do, or even give you a tour. People who use fountain pens are almost always honest people who have interesting things to talk about so we're always glad to meet you if time permits.

 

David

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<<SNIP>>Any comments, observations and/or advice about the different nib sizes are very, very welcome, as well!

Lucinda...

all the objective, scientific, micrometer-measured, Ph.D.-inspired commentary, all the tons of pen company brochures and charts will never replace these four letters

 

 

Y M M V

 

M'dear, I have Chinese XFs that write F, German Ms that write B, French Bs that write M. My beloved Peg, the light of my life, when I can get her to pick up an FP, will normally get about a half size SMALLER out of a given nib than I will.

 

Just a suggestion....don't get all bound up with nib sizes. Make Richard Binder a person on your To Do list to get to know. Go buy pens and write with them. You may find that you will want a different nib size based on mood, activity, writing mood...lots of different things...and having a selection is good.

 

Hell that is why Baskin Robbins makes money...nobody wants the same flavor of ice cream all the time...

 

Bill...and yes, I will use up to four different pens with four different nib sizes in one day...and my favorite is an M that is more to the F side...

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Regarding nibs from the Big Three Japanese Pen companies - Pilot, Sailor, and Platinum - the following are my observations on the sizes of their nibs. My experience is mostly with pens from about 1980 and earlier, so please take that into consideration.

 

Pilot: They seem to run about one-half size smaller than that found in the west. I understand the term 'west' means America and Europe and, including in the broad spectrum of makers are companies from America nad Europe, within that large group are further differences in nib sizes. I'll just stick to 'west.'

 

To my eye and hand there appears an exception. In the 1970s Pilot introduced a very successful model called the Custom that had a large inset nib. Initially they were 14K and later models sported 18K White Gold nibs. Sometimes these are dated as early as 1969 but, the earliest nib codes are from 1972. A few of the earlier one seem just slightly smaller than that in the 'west.' It may be these were intended to be sold in the 'west.' All of the Pilot nibs from before the 1990s are marked by letter.

 

Sailor: To me Sailor makes the sweetest smoothest nibs of the three. they seem to run somewhere between a half to full size (three-quarters?) smaller than 'western' nibs. The nib sizes are designated by numbers markerd such:<1> Very Fine, <2> Fine, <3> Medium, and <4> Broad.

 

Platinum:In my opinion, nibs from Platinum are almost an entire size smaller than that in the 'west.' There are exceptions and one does need to look at the individual pen. All sizes are marked in Japanese characters. I have seem pens marked Fine that do write close to a 'Western' Fine. Platinum also sold a good number of pens with Soft nibs and, depending on your writing style can provide the illusion of a bigger size.

 

Hope the above is of some help.

If there are any questions please do not hesitate to reply here of to my email address.

stan

Formerly Ryojusen Pens
The oldest and largest buyer and seller of vintage Japanese pens in America.


Member: Pen Collectors of America & Fuente, THE Japanese Pen Collectors Club

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Some very specific suggestions, Lucinda, and very biased as you will see.

 

First, don't get too antsy :P to get this done too quickly (difficult, I know). Next, as should be obvious if you've been reading for a while, buy a Pelikan M200 or M250 for your first .

 

Buy this first Pelikan from either Richard Binder

http://www.richardspens.com/

 

or

 

John Mottishaw

http://www.nibs.com/

 

If you have no particular preference, flip a coin. They are equally good with which to deal.

 

Procure a line on a piece of paper that represents the width of the line that you want this pen to write. Send this paper to the vendor of your choice along with your email address and tell them that you will follow up via email. In the ensuing email, describe as much about your writing technique as possible. How and where you grip the pen, how hard you grip it, how much pressure do you use to hold the nib to the paper, the angle that the pen makes with respect to the paper, do you rotate the nib so that you see most of the top side of the nib or very little of it. or do you orient the nib so that it is "square" to the paper. Do you prefer a dry, med. or wet line? Anything that you forget, they will ask if it is critical.

 

These are nibmeisters and sales types that you are dealing with and as such, they will virtually assure your satisfaction with this all important

"first pen".

 

After this maiden voyage, you can scoot around, pick up bargains and search for the yet more satisfying pen and nib; a search that will last as long as you live, if you choose to remain in the interest.

 

Have fun...the first is a joy that is seldom duplicated. :)

Roger

Southern Arizona, USA

Fountain Pen Talk Mailing List

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Very helpful charts!  Thank you so much!  One of the pens I'm waffling over is a Duke, so assuming the Chinese nib sizes run similar to the Japanese, that first chart, especially, is exactly what I need.  (Am open to any correction on assumptions I may make, given my near-complete ignorance on FP matters.) :)

Hi Lucinda,

 

Although *most* Chinese nibs tend to run finer than their western equivalents -- and very similar to Japanese nibs -- DUKE nibs are not given a nib size as such (they're unmarked). For the vast majority of them, they are what I've come to describe on my website as 'light-medium' nibs. By this I mean that they generally fall between a typical western fine and medium.

 

This is all a *very* inexact 'science'. :doh: One company's medium is another's fine, which is another's broad! Even within on company, a medium on one model can be quite different from a medium on another (Sheaffer comes to mind). Also, the amount of tipping material from one individual pen to another can vary, so that two supposedly identical pens can lay down different lines (also somewhat controlled by tine separation).

 

So, take any nib size designation as a *very* general rule-of-thumb.

Regards,

 

Norman Haase

His Nibs.com

www.hisnibs.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HisNibs1

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I know the kanji in the japanese chart! I feel smart now. I think it's part of the kanji for Wednesday if my memory serves.

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:huh:

 

Can anyone help me with this one, is it B or M ?

Hi Simon,

 

That looks like an M to me. IME, (modern) MB nibs tend to run a little wider than most nibs.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

the Mad Dutchman
laugh a little, love a little, live a lot; laugh a lot, love a lot, live forever

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That looks like an M to me. IME, (modern) MB nibs tend to run a little wider than most nibs.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

Thanks, it's really helpful, before your words, I was thinking if one FP's nib runs like that, it must be a B size nib. :blink:

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Simon

Depends...

Are going to bear down as you write?

Do you have a light touch?

What angle to you hold the pen to the paper?

What angle do you hold your arm to the desk?

Do you write with the nib iridium down on the paper or do you see the iridium as you write.

What kind of paper do you use? Nice stuff? Bad stuff?

What kind of ink?

 

 

Sorry, but there are just too many damn variables for a nice pat answer.

 

All other things considered, and given it appears to be an MB nib...it should lay no size line whatever.

 

You should go out and get a pen worth using....

 

Bill...never at a loss for an opinion on a Mont Blanc...

Edited by paircon01
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