Bad Converters?

[dmorgen]

I'm wondering if I've been unlucky or what the heck is going on!

 

Almost every new pen I've bought recently has a skipping problem. This mostly occurs drawing straight lines ... the faster the more likely; but even fast scribbling is usually not a problem. In one case, the symptoms were slightly different ... the amount of ink put out keeps getting smaller.

 

In every case, when a C/C pen, the problem temporarily goes away after turning the converter knob in the direction to move the piston towards the nib.

 

I've tried multiple flushes with liquid detergent in water. Most recently I tried flushing the converter with Giovanni's InkSafe. I've tried priming pens with Waterman's Florida Blue or Blue-Black. All these things seem to help, but in many cases don't solve the problem. My most recent problem is with a Stipula Duetta. It has a 1.1mm Italic. When working right, it writes unbelievably well - smooth, wet line, etc. It's been through 2 flushing cycles using the liquid detergent, and filled with Waterman Florida Blue. Then a few days ago, it was flushed with the liquid detergent, followed by flushing the converter with InkSafe, then filled with Noodler's Zhivago. I thought the problem was solved. It was writing great. Then the skipping started a few hours ago.

 

Any idea what's going on? Could the converters in multiple pens of different manufacturers have problems?

 

Any suggestions for really fixing this problem?

 

Thanks!

 

Dave

[saintsimon]

Do you have the same problems with cartridges?

 

Does the ink stick to the walls in the converters and does'nt get to the feed?

If so, kill a cartridge which has a little glass ball in it (like Pelikan carts ...) and try to put the little ball into the converter. That may (just may) help.

[kwahoo]

I had this problem with my first FP purchase, a Sonnet. Gave up on it. It's still in my "sell" box--if there's a solution, maybe I can resurrect it!

/K

[krz]

the problem temporarily goes away after turning the converter knob in the direction to move the piston towards the nib.

Dave, I bought an inexpensive Hero 508 pen with a Stainless body and with a stainless nib. It performs so well I bought a fancier Hero with gold plated nib, and it does the exact same thing youv'e described. I first suspected the nib but found it wrote great after I've advanced the ink a bit.

 

I don't know either. :bonk:

[Distant Orbit]

i've had these problems with sheaffer prelude, waterman expert, apogee and parker duofold and it happened with cart or filler.

 

if the ink is collecting at top of converter, the washing with detergent and leaving to dry trick worked here. but did not stop skipping and nib flow gradually reducing.

 

turning out to be a frustrating hobby!!

 

my pel m250 should arrive today or tomorrow, hope that works.

 

cheers

 

 

kevin

Edited February 8, 2006 by Distant Orbit

[John Cullen]

I will have to agree with what others have said here. I recently had a waterman that had the thin on the upstroke problem. Waterman fixed it and now it is fine.

 

I too have a sonnet I just tossed in the back of a drawer for the same reason. I should send it in and get it fixed.

 

I am sure the experts can explain what this is all about, but I can not.

 

BTW, I have also had this happen with a duofold which I bought used and I had to flush it numerous times with water and liquid dish detergent before finally whatever was causing the problem got flushed out. Maybe try a few more flushes, especially if the Duetto was used and may have had some dried ink in it.

 

The duetto I had flowed like a champ.

 

Sorry to hear this. It is annoying, but once you get it going it will be a great writer.

 

j

[dmorgen]

The Duetto is a great writer ... until the next time it requires the converter to tweaked!

 

This certainly does seem to be a common problem across brands! I'm going to try what one person suggested ... using a cartridge as a test. OTOH, somebody else reported this didn't help them.

 

I've been into the fountain pen addiction for about a year now. But it's only been the last 3-6 months that I've started running into this problem, when I've started to buy more expensive pens. I haven't had the problem with every new pen, but probably the majority to one degree or another. As I recall when I started using my Sailor 1911M with music nib, probably 3-4 months ago, I didn't like it at first because it was too dry a writer. A good flushing fixed it. It was a very minor case. But earlier on when buying Rotring Cores, Lamy Safaris, Waterman Phileas, Lamy 2000, Namiki VP, etc. I NEVER had this problem. At that point I never bothered pre-flushing, using a "priming" ink, etc. I only started those practices after starting to run into problems.

 

I wonder if all these manufacturers are buying components from a common source, which has problems.

 

BTW, a few minutes ago, my Taccia Doric, which I thought I had fixed by flushing, started exhibiting diminishing ink flow. Extra flushing did increase the time before problems struck (or maybe it was using a different ink - Noodler's Cayenne).

 

If the problem is having some residue in the converter, feed or whatever, I wonder if there's a better flushing material for this than liquid detergent, e.g. 409? I know some people recommend it, but I don't know if it's safe to use in all pens.

 

Dave

[John Cullen]

I wonder if this problem is why some companies seem to set the flow rate so high on their pens. It just seems like some companies make pens that really put out a lot of ink.

 

I recall someone in a post saying there were some converters that seemed less likely to hold ink up on the sides than certain others. I think Rotring was mentioned as a good converter. Not sure.

 

I have found waterman pens to be a bit on the reserved side regarding flow. Maybe that is why they have this problem? Any restriction of flow would be an immediate problem if the flow was moderate to begin with??

 

Just musing.... No real knowledge about this other than my limited experience. J

[KCat]

In one case, the symptoms were slightly different ... the amount of ink put out keeps getting smaller.

 

IMO, in this particular case, this is most likely feed starvation and can be tricky to correct to depending on the pen. Can you tell us what pen this is?

 

there are a number of reasons for these problems, ranging from a poor meeting of feed and nib, poor feed/nib design, baby-bottomed nib, and the noted problems of some converters. I've never really had a converter problem so I think that since you've flushed and so on it is the least likely culprit at this point.

 

I have seen more of this problem on some cheaper brands (low end Dani Trio* using a "Iridium Point Germany" nib, one Laban, and one Stipula/Levenger) - have never seen it on a Pelikan or Namiki. My latest addition, a Cross Townsend doesn't have any flow problems. I do think there's some QC problems here with pen companies and am starting to agree with vivek N. that these should be returned to the manufacturer for replacement/repair rather than the more tempting route of getting a nibmeister to fix the problem. If they don't have to deal with the returns/repairs, they may never bother to address the problem.

 

* The Dani Trio is a very low end that was several years old and had, as I said, an IPG nib which I've found to be problematic in general. I don't know if it is still manufactured the way it was. This pen is nothing like the models Kevin (winedoc) sells.

[wimg]

Hi Dave,

 

As KCat indicates this could be a feed starvation problem, which requires work to have it fixed, but just as well could be caused by the converter. I´ve seen this happen a few times before with Stip c/c converters.

 

When it happens, keep the pen nib down, and unscrew the barrel, carefully, without shaking or moving the pen if at all possible. Check where the ink is. If it is up at the end of the converter, with an air bubble between it and the nib end of the section, your converter is suffering from SIS or SID (Sticky Ink Syndrome or Disease). Even flushing it with pure liquid soap is not going to get rid of this problem (yes, I tried even that ). You´ll find that flicking a finger against the converter will bring the ink down only with difficulty.

 

However, the solution for SIS/SID is simple: replace the converter with a Pelikan converter, or use cartridges.

 

The crazy thing about this is that not all Stip converters do this. I haven´t found yet when or why it happens in some and not in others, although all of the ones with problems always had Stipula printed on the converter body (but then, working ones sometimes have the name printed on the body too).

 

If it is a feed starvation problem: this can be fixed fairly easily too, but better check the converter first, before we try to go through this procedure.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

 

BTW, if you let the ink dry out too much, or if you don´t hold the nib just right (the 1.1 has only a small sweet spot), this may result in skipping, not so much less and less ink put out. While your at it, blow into the cap to see whether it lets air through (normally where the clip enters the main body of the cap, if it does so).

 

BTW II: What liquid detergent are you using? Some leave a waxy substance behind. You need liquid dishwashing soap, without any scented stuff or hand conditioner etc. added. So, the cheapest stuff will do just fine. And only 1-2 drops in a glass of tap water.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[dmorgen]

IMO, in this particular case, this is most likely feed starvation and can be tricky to correct to depending on the pen. Can you tell us what pen this is?

The pens where the amount of ink being put out keeps getting smaller are both Taccias: a new Mother of Pearl, and a slightly older Doric. The Doric originally had the skipping problem; that problem went away after extensive flushing, and I thought I was problem free; but a good way through a converter load of ink this other problem showed up. I previously had it loaded with Waterman Blue-Black. This time it's loaded with Noodler's Cayenne.

 

This is the first load of ink in the MOP. It's loaded with an ink I got through the ink exchange ... J. Herbin Turquoise.

 

BTW, both of these pens have Binderized nibs! The Doric a 0.8mm cursive Italic. The MOP with an Italifine ... cursive italic on one side, extra fine on the other side ... a really fun nib! The EF side is unbelievably smooth. Both nibs are great.

 

I very much doubt the fact these nibs are Binderized is the cause of the problem; more likely, it eliminates a potential cause! It seems to me the converter must be the #1 possible cause, although anything is possible I've discovered in general (especially being a software developer!). I've run into these kinds of problems on both Binderized and manufacturer nibs. Adjusting the converter always solves the problem for awhile. In just about every case the problem does improve with flushing. Unfortunately, in most cases I haven't been able to totally get rid of the problem by flushing.

 

there are a number of reasons for these problems, ranging from a poor meeting of feed and nib, poor feed/nib design, baby-bottomed nib, and the noted problems of some converters. I've never really had a converter problem so I think that since you've flushed and so on it is the least likely culprit at this point.

One other possibility of course is a combination of problems, nib/feed on some pens, converter on others, both on others!

 

I have seen more of this problem on some cheaper brands (low end Dani Trio* using a "Iridium Point Germany" nib, one Laban, and one Stipula/Levenger) - have never seen it on a Pelikan or Namiki. My latest addition, a Cross Townsend doesn't have any flow problems. I do think there's some QC problems here with pen companies and am starting to agree with vivek N. that these should be returned to the manufacturer for replacement/repair rather than the more tempting route of getting a nibmeister to fix the problem. If they don't have to deal with the returns/repairs, they may never bother to address the problem.

I have a $25 DaniTrio I bought from Winedoc months ago. Its problem is drying up within a day or 2 of non-use. I've flushed it a few times & it's improved so it can go unused for 3-5 days. This is a converter pen.

 

Other pens with skipping problems, all improved by flushing, include a Sailor 1911M with music nib, a Sheaffer Legacy (the new version of the touchdown filler), and a Stipula Duetto (all with manufacturer nibs). Extra flushing turned the 1911M from a pen I didn't like into a wonderful writer without a problem through a full load of ink. The other 2 still have problems to a lesser degree.

 

* The Dani Trio is a very low end that was several years old and had, as I said, an IPG nib which I've found to be problematic in general. I don't know if it is still manufactured the way it was. This pen is nothing like the models Kevin (winedoc) sells.

I've had no problems in Pelikans (including their inexpensive M75 Go, and Future), Namiki (Vanishing Point), Lamy (Safaris, 2000), Rotrings (Cores & Initial), Signum (Orione w/cartridge filler), Bexley (Americana), Parker, etc. Almost all of these were purchased awhile ago, except the Americana ... but it was purchased used. However, it was initially a very dry writer. I had Bexley exchange the nib for a broad stub ... now it writes wet & great.

 

Dave

[dmorgen]

Wim,

 

As KCat indicates this could be a feed starvation problem, which requires work to have it fixed, but just as well could be caused by the converter. I´ve seen this happen a few times before with Stip c/c converters.

 

When it happens, keep the pen nib down, and unscrew the barrel, carefully, without shaking or moving the pen if at all possible. Check where the ink is. If it is up at the end of the converter, with an air bubble between it and the nib end of the section, your converter is suffering from SIS or SID (Sticky Ink Syndrome or Disease). Even flushing it with pure liquid soap is not going to get rid of this problem (yes, I tried even that ). You´ll find that flicking a finger against the converter will bring the ink down only with difficulty.

 

I haven't specifically checked for this when the problem occurs. But I know in some cases I've seen it, both when the problem occurs & at other times.

 

However, the solution for SIS/SID is simple: replace the converter with a Pelikan converter, or use cartridges.

Do you know of any other converters that work in this situation? I have many extra converters, but probably only one Pelikan, which is in use in my Future! Ordering just a converter I'll get killed by shipping ... I've bought too many (according to one person at least! ) pens & inks recently, so as much as I'd like to build a big order, it's probably the best time! But if I need to get a Pelikan converter (or a few), I will.

 

The crazy thing about this is that not all Stip converters do this. I haven´t found yet when or why it happens in some and not in others, although all of the ones with problems always had Stipula printed on the converter body (but then, working ones sometimes have the name printed on the body too).

Mine does have Stipula printed on the converter body.

 

If it is a feed starvation problem: this can be fixed fairly easily too, but better check the converter first, before we try to go through this procedure.

Would a feed starvation problem exhibit the symptoms I'm seeing, particularly with the Stipula? It is an amazingly wet writer when the problem isn't happening. But it can go from wet to nothing & back again. There is no in-between.

 

BTW, if you let the ink dry out too much, or if you don´t hold the nib just right (the 1.1 has only a small sweet spot), this may result in skipping, not so much less and less ink put out.

I played around with that quite a bit on the Stipula to make sure I wasn't lifting the nib off the paper, or getting off the sweet spot. I did discover the problem isn't as frequent if I hold the pen in a more vertical position (but less than perpendicular to the paper); but it still happens quite often.

 

While your at it, blow into the cap to see whether it lets air through (normally where the clip enters the main body of the cap, if it does so).

If I blow into the cap very hard, a tiny bit of air seems to be coming out where you mention. This is a very tiny leak. Presumably it shouldn't let air through to prevent the ink from drying?

 

BTW II: What liquid detergent are you using? Some leave a waxy substance behind. You need liquid dishwashing soap, without any scented stuff or hand conditioner etc. added. So, the cheapest stuff will do just fine. And only 1-2 drops in a glass of tap water.

Whatever dishwashing liquid we have sitting on the sink. However, I did just get some green "Original Palmolive"; but I haven't used it yet. I tend to use 1 drop, or slightly more, in a plastic cup of water.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Dave

[pvdiamon]

For what it's worth, I too have been into this for about a year. EVERY pen I own with a converter has this problem: Aurora Ipsilon Deluxe, Namiki VP, Sheaffer Prelude, and a Hero. My Wality, which does not use a converter, doesn't do this skipping thing. Given the discussion on this board, it just seems like converters don't feed ink that well. I just periodically open the pen and screw down the converter which fixes it for a while. But I"m beginning to want to just buy pens that don't have the converters. I like Noodlers ink, so I may also try the cartridge method by using a syringe to refill used cartridges. My Sheaffer school pen which only uses cartridges works great!

[tryphon]

Syndrome or Disease). Even flushing it with pure liquid soap is not going to get rid of this problem (yes, I tried even that ). You´ll find that flicking a finger against the converter will bring the ink down only with difficulty.

 

BTW II: What liquid detergent are you using? Some leave a waxy substance behind. You need liquid dishwashing soap, without any scented stuff or hand conditioner etc. added. So, the cheapest stuff will do just fine. And only 1-2 drops in a glass of tap water.

Palmolive Green will work, but it does promote bacterial growth. So, use it in the converter, not in the ink bottle. Best solution would be a specifically formulated product, such as our InkSafe. InkSafe will increase ink flow, remove all traces of manufacturing oils and prevent bacterial growth.

It is not a detergent, it is not a photographic wetting agent and it works beautifully, as many satisfied users can confirm. Two bucks buy enough InkSafe to treat a dozen ink bottles.

 

Tryphon Pen care and repair products

Edited February 9, 2006 by tryphon

[dmorgen]

Palmolive Green will work, but it does promote bacterial growth. So, use it in the converter, not in the ink bottle. Best solution would be a specifically formulated product, such as our InkSafe. InkSafe will increase ink flow, remove all traces of manufacturing oils and prevent bacterial growth.

It is not a detergent, it is not a photographic wetting agent and it works beautifully, as many satisfied users can confirm. Two bucks buy enough InkSafe to treat a dozen ink bottles.

Giovanni,

 

I just received some InkSafe. I used it with a few drops in water to flush some of the converters. Then I used a needle to put some into a cartridge already loaded with ink; but I'm not convinced I really got any into there. This may have contributed to some of the improvements. But it wasn't a very good test.

 

I don't want to devote entire bottles to using InkSafe, since I have some pens which write wet enough already, and I don't want a flood when I use these inks! So, I'm thinking of pouring parts of bottles into some plastic vials, adding InkSafe to there & giving them a try.

 

Meanwhile, I ordered some Pelikan converters, which I'll try, in case the problem really is converters, not residue in converters.

 

Yesterday, I wrote with my Bexley Americana with broad stub nib, PR Sherwood Green ink. It sure was nice using a pen that just wrote a really nice line without any coercion whatsoever!

 

Dave

[tryphon]

Palmolive Green will work, but it does promote bacterial growth. So, use it in the converter, not in the ink bottle. Best solution would be a specifically formulated product, such as our InkSafe. InkSafe will increase ink flow, remove all traces of manufacturing oils and prevent bacterial growth.

It is not a detergent, it is not a photographic wetting agent and it works beautifully, as many satisfied users can confirm. Two bucks buy enough InkSafe to treat a dozen ink bottles.

Giovanni,

 

I just received some InkSafe. I used it with a few drops in water to flush some of the converters. Then I used a needle to put some into a cartridge already loaded with ink; but I'm not convinced I really got any into there. This may have contributed to some of the improvements. But it wasn't a very good test.

 

I don't want to devote entire bottles to using InkSafe, since I have some pens which write wet enough already, and I don't want a flood when I use these inks! So, I'm thinking of pouring parts of bottles into some plastic vials, adding InkSafe to there & giving them a try.

 

Meanwhile, I ordered some Pelikan converters, which I'll try, in case the problem really is converters, not residue in converters.

 

Yesterday, I wrote with my Bexley Americana with broad stub nib, PR Sherwood Green ink. It sure was nice using a pen that just wrote a really nice line without any coercion whatsoever!

 

Dave

You make sone very good points!

To add the InkSafe to a cartridge or converter, I use a thin toothpick. If necessary, one can be thinned easily with a pen knife. Wood absorbs enough of the liquid to make a difference when dipped in the ink.

A more drastic method is to huse a high concentration (say 1:10) of inksafe in a small container and to flush all your converters in it several times. InkSafe contains chemicals that will take out any remaining traces of manufacturing oils.

Please let us know how things work out!

[Bill]

InkSafe...is not a detergent, it is not a photographic wetting agent...

 

Why won't a wetting agent like Photo-Flo work?

 

Bill

[tryphon]

InkSafe...is not a detergent, it is not a photographic wetting agent...

 

Why won't a wetting agent like Photo-Flo work?

 

Bill

It will increase flow, but does nothing about removing manufacturing oils or preventing bacterial or fungal growth. In fact, it may foster bacterial growth. It may also cause feathering.

[jmk]

In my collection, I have found that Cross coverters work very well, followed closely by Montblanc and Sheaffer. HOWEVER, the ink I use makes the most difference. Diamine inks consistently flow well in converters. I use many of their colors and haven't had a flow problem with any of them. Waterman is another ink that has good flow characteristics in converters. If you must use a particular brand of converter that isn't working very well, try Diamine ink. Also, most cartridges I use don't seem to have the same flow problem, so I use cartridges often. Most likely, you won't see this problem in pens with piston reservoirs, although you might if the internal diameter is very small. For example, my piston Pelikans and Montblancs work great with every ink I've fed them when it comes to reservoir-to-feed flow. I have another piston feeder that exhibits the same problem as the converter does in this thread. Being picky with ink usually takes care of it.

[Kelly]

Meanwhile, I ordered some Pelikan converters, which I'll try, in case the problem really is converters, not residue in converters.

Hi there - I've been reading this with interest...as every once in a while I'll get a skip as well, also with the Taccia. Are you going to use the Pelikan converters in the Taccias? Will they fit? I ask as I'm seriously thinking of getting a couple on hand. Thanks and best of luck - let us know what happens