how about montblanc fountain pens

[Titivillus]

Well I've been to the New England Pen show and have seen several large- 2' x 2' x 2' boxes of parts pens. so it doesn't suprise me .

 

kurt h

Edited February 10, 2006 by Tytyvyllus

[Gatorade]

Now I would like to hear from someone who has been to a show and seen these "barrels" of pens. Sorry but I am still not buying that thousands of broken pens are being offered by the bucketfull for parts.

 

I have never been to a pen show so I have no experience here. I just think the 1000's of pens spilling over onto the floor in a cascade of 149's is a little bit of a stretch.

Hi Gatorade,

 

No doubt that if MB saw a box of broken MBs they would snatch it and call their lawyers. But that's not how pen shows work. Shows are filled with independent dealers, most of them collectors that trade mainly/only at shows. Part boxes are present at many tables : boxes of vintage duofold parts, Waterman inlaid caps, barrels, etc... The presence of 149 part box is completely out of control of MB, and even of authorized dealers.

 

On the quality of MB plastic, it is notorious that the plastic they used was very fragile and would shatter extremely easily. I think I heard that the plastic was modified recently. I don't know if someone here knows more about that.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Denis.

A parts box is reasonable. I can see a parts box. I really love parts boxes myself . However if you read the post that was refered to above the writer used... Well here read for yourself:

 

I have seen litterally large bags--weighing ten to twenty pounds filled with cracked 149s and 146s.  One fellow last year had a 25 gallon can filled to the brim with

them--I am not kidding.

 

I have seen literally barrels full, I'm talking full sized barrels of 149s--1000s of them, all cracked at shows being sold for nibs and parts

Well I've been to the New England Pen show and have seen several large- 2' x 2' x 2' boxes of parts pens. so it doesn't suprise me .

 

kurt h

My friend boy said to your friend girl.

 

 

Did that 2x2x2 box contain only MB parts pens? Or were there others in the box as well? I really gotta get to one of these shows if there are just boxes of these out there. Not too long ago I remember someone posting about how they can make bodies and caps for 146s, and 149s out of various materials. I think it was just wood right now but that would work for me! A custom 149 rescued from a parts bin and fitted with a walnut barrel and cap. Or a black laquer over wood grain to get that classic feel to it.

[Blade Runner]

Gatorade,

I was at last year's Boston/New England pen show. I picked up a cool Noodler's Brahmin blue poster featuring the Boston skyline and the Noodler's catfish drawn by Pier Gustafson. The artist does some very cool pen related artwork by the way.

I did see several large parts boxes, and they mostly contained vintage stuff. I didn't see any boxes of exclusively MB stuff though, and I didn't see any MB body parts.

 

 

Regards,

Jeen

Edited February 10, 2006 by jeen

[Titivillus]

My friend boy said to your friend girl.

 

I think you're making a reference to my sig but... James Crawford didn't write that line

 

My grandma and your grandma

Were sittin' by the fire.

My grandma told your grandma:

"I'm gonna set your flag on fire."

 

Chorus:

Talkin' 'bout: Hey now! Hey now!

Iko, Iko, unday

Jockamo feeno ai nané.

Jockamo fee nané.

Look at my king all dressed in red.

Iko, Iko, unday.

I betcha five dollars he'll kill you dead.

Jockamo fee nané

Chorus:

 

My flag boy and your flag boy

Were sittin' by the fire.

My flag boy told your flag boy:

"I'm gonna set your flag on fire."

Chorus:

 

See that guy all dressed in green ?

Iko, Iko, unday. He's not a man;

He's a lovin' machine.

Jockamo fee nané.

Chorus:

 

 

Did that 2x2x2 box contain only MB parts pens? Or were there others in the box as well?

 

Never really said that it was a heapin helpin of MB pieces parts.

 

 

I really gotta get to one of these shows if there are just boxes of these out there.

 

Unfortunately I was only able to go to one and found it a rather cold place. Maybe if you're in the know it's more fun.

 

Not too long ago I remember someone posting about how they can make bodies and caps for 146s, and 149s out of various materials. I think it was just wood right now but that would work for me!

Paul Rossi has been doing modifications to MBs for years with different body and cap materials. Lex has several and also a tool so he can take the pieces apart and change them.

 

As well there's a pic done by the binde master of a woodgrain ebonite cap and barrel. It really looks nice although the cap lip and jewel are still black probably because of structural reasons.

 

 

Kurt H

Edited February 10, 2006 by Tytyvyllus

[Gatorade]

My friend boy said to your friend girl.

 

I think you're making a reference to my sig but... James Crawford didn't write that line

Kurt H

For the record I had never, ever, ever..... seen the lyrics in print. I love the song but the version that played in my head all during the foggy 80's was a little different. That was the way it was back then when you couldn't google the lyrics or they weren't printed on the liner notes. Sometimes you just made up word that seemed to fit.

 

Did that 2x2x2 box contain only MB parts pens? Or were there others in the box as well?

 

Never really said that it was a heapin helpin of MB pieces parts.

 

Earlier there was a refrence to a barrel of MB pens I thought you were saying you saw a 2x2x2 box of cracked MBs for parts. My mistake.

 

Not too long ago I remember someone posting about how they can make bodies and caps for 146s, and 149s out of various materials. I think it was just wood right now but that would work for me!

Paul Rossi has been doing modifications to MBs for years with different body and cap materials. Lex has several and also a tool so he can take the pieces apart and change them.

 

As well there's a pic done by the binde master of a woodgrain ebonite cap and barrel. It really looks nice although the cap lip and jewel are still black probably because of structural reasons.

 

That must have been what I was thinking of. I guess if it had to keep some of the original black resin parts then I would want something that would complement the basic black.

[KCat]

There is no doubt that Frank Dubiel was a pen expert and did a lot for the fountain pen collecting community.

Hi John.

 

One thing I do recall being discussed - which might have gotten distorted with time - is that Frank carried a box of *fake* MBs with him and would sell them for minimal $ when people asked about MBs. Part of his tireless campaign against the brand?

 

Now - I've said that based on a memory, and most folks know here that my memory leaves a lot to be desired. But it makes me wonder about some of the claimes of "barrels" or "boxes" of dead MB pens. Could some of them be mix-ups. How many folks, when attending the show and new to the hobby would stop and say "Hey, are those all real MB parts/pens?" Aside from the fact that while I can certainly identify some brand parts, if it's out of context (ie., not attached to the pen) then it becomes much more difficult to do so.

 

I would like to note, whatever your feelings about Frank, he is no longer with us to defend his comments or opinions. Please consider that in your comments.

 

kcat

[John Cullen]

kcat,

 

I gave Frank Dubiel his due as a major presence in the pen community. I went out of my way to begin my post by acknowledging his expertise. I have never doubted his pen expertise.

 

All I pointed out was that like ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING he had his quirks and sometimes wrote in rather dramatic form.

 

Do you really think there is something wrong with saying that someone who has passed away was a major influence but had his quirks and sometimes exaggerated? We can't speak of the dead if we question something they once said?

 

I do not think I was disrespectul. I simply made an observation based on my having read many of his posts.

 

If you honestly think my comments were disrespectful in some way, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

JC

[KCat]

John.

 

First, a thousand sincere apologies. I'm sick with a sinus infection and not thinking too clearly so my post gave the wrong impression entirely from what I meant to say.

 

The first part of the post was addressed to you merely by way of conversation - that is, ya'll were talking about these so-called barrels and boxes of MB parts. I was suggesting that maybe errors were made by show attendees WRT what was "MB parts" vs. just parts that happen to include MB parts or MB look-alikes, etc. I was wondering if some of the stories handed down re: these boxes and barrels were not in fact just misinterpretations or "mis-remembering". Just offering another thought on the whole topic because as you noted "Maybe he did see a box of MB's, but I doubt anyone had a box of broken 146 or 149 MBs with nibs and feeds and clips and such someone else did not snap up!" Sorry - but I really only intended to back up your comments on this with another possibility.

 

My last comment was not meant to be addressed to *you* at all actually. I thought your comments re: Frank were very even handed. They were aimed more at Gatorade's comments because I think that he is not entirely familiar with the community's history and Frank's role and got the sense that he wasn't aware of Frank's passing based on the use of present tense comments. I guess I put that comment in as I did (without directing it solely to Gatorade) so that anyone else reading the thread who was not aware of this would also take it into consideration.

 

I'm so sorry about the miscommunication - I actually stand in total agreement with everything you said. Much as Frank was beloved (and not-so-beloved) by the community, he and I only saw eye-to-eye on one thing - that we didn't see eye-to-eye. Toward the end, thankfully, we agreed to disagree and understand each other on the basis of both being human and under extraordinary pressures at the time (his mother's illness, my MIL's death.) As far as I've seen, John, you've been nothing but fair and gentle in this discussion despite the underlying conflict this topic always brings up. I'm really terribly sorry and can't say it enough, to have worded my post so poorly.

 

And now i'm off to bed for some nyquil and some TLC from hubby.

 

Good night and I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt on this. It simply isn't in my nature to be as disparaging towards someone as my post appeared to be towards you. I certainly can see how it appears that way though.

[John Cullen]

Now I feel a litlte foolish and that I overreacted in my post.

 

I appreciate your gracious and understanding response.

 

It does sound like you are going through one of those tough times in your family and I hope I did not add any stress.

 

Again, thanks. I appreciate it and hope you feel better.

 

Maybe I am in more need of the weekend than I thought. JC

[amin]

I currently have about eight or ten Montblancs, which range from a safety (1920's) to modern 146's and a 149. They're all great writing instruments.

As for the "brittleness" of their porecious resin, I would challenge someone to drop a 149, a Pelikan 1000, and a Parker Duofold all onto a tile floor and see which survive. I'd wager that none of them would. The MB 144 was poorly designed (too thin) and was indeed prone to breakage, but the 146 and 149 are well constructed pens, and I don't think that they are any more prone to damage than any other comparable pen.

The company's marketing campaign is a whole other conversation, but as far as writing instruments go, I think that they're quite good.

I have owned only MB BP pens, but have used my family members' MB 146, 149, and thinner FPs many times. They have actually all been very nice wet FPs with extremely smooth nibs (if you like that sort of thing). The 149s in particular seem very well constructed and the nibs are nice and springy. That said, my experience is that they are more fragile than most pens. I've never dropped a 149 or an M1000, but I've dropped a Pelikan M800 which survived. I dropped two MBs, a 144 FP, and a 161 BP. Both cracked badly. To MB's credit, they actually repaired the 144 for free on the spot in a MB retail store (took about 10 min), and charged a somewhat reasonable fee ($65) for repairing the 161. Truly one should not be dropping these pens anyway, but it's good to know that if you shatter a MB, they will fix it for a fraction of the cost of the whole pen.

 

As for the strength of the 149, which I have not broken, the MB person who fixed my dad's 144 said that he sees plenty of cracked 149s. His explanation was that MB can't make a durable plastic that shines as much as their current formula. Makes sense to me.

[saturation]

I have a MB 146 from the early 1970s and it's excellent; nice semi-flex 14kt F nib (the monotone type, not the current one). The gold plate on the clip and band is in excellent shape, despite frequent use. I think 149s and 146s from the 1970s might be worth considering if you can't afford the '60s and earlier models.

 

RichardS

 

PS Nice pen Jeen!

 

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5530/mb1a5xr.jpg

 

AHA! I have an old MB and have trouble IDing the nib. It looks exactly like yours.

 

Can you tell me more about your pen? Maybe we have the same vintage.

 

The nib is a single tone of gold?

 

W. Germany engraved on the top of the cap, where the clip attaches to.

 

It has a large M on the nib, but is this the nib width? It does write like a fine so I presume M means Mont Blanc rather than medium??

 

It has a tendency to get wet around the grip, putting ink on my fingers, so its not a favorite pen, by far.

 

I luckily got it at a bankruptcy sale so it wasn't a bad purchase [ ~$75]

Edited February 11, 2006 by saturation

[RichardS]

Hi Saturation,

 

Yes, it's a "monotone" (i.e. one-colour) gold nib. There's also a large 'M' in the centre of the Montblanc symbol, with '4810' above and '14C' below. I believe the 'M' is simply for 'Montblanc' as mine is certainly a Fine nib, though there are no markings to prove it!

 

However, there is no 'W. Germany' on the cap or clip.

 

This must date yours to 1989/90 at the very latest; perhaps a late 1970/80s pen, a little later than mine?

 

Best wishes

Richard

[Gatorade]

They were aimed more at Gatorade's comments because I think that he is not entirely familiar with the community's history and Frank's role and got the sense that he wasn't aware of Frank's passing based on the use of present tense comments.  I guess I put that comment in as I did (without directing it solely to Gatorade) so that anyone else reading the thread who was not aware of this would also take it into consideration.

 

First off. No I didn't know that Frank had passed on. I was actually curious to see if this thread would have made it's way to him if he wasn't active on this board. All the quotes I posted were from the google site so I didn't know if he had ever been here. My apologies if I sounded like I was berating someone after thier passing.

 

That being said I was just trying to point out how a gross and known exaduration can be posted and used as a refrence when connected with MB. I really took offence when I read some of his comments that said that all the MB BPs would crack after 2-3 years without fail as they are designed to do so. As I stated I have had a MB BP for 10 years and use it a bunch as well. No cracks.

 

The first part of the post was addressed to you merely by way of conversation - that is, ya'll were talking about these so-called barrels and boxes of MB parts. I was  suggesting that maybe errors were made by show attendees WRT what was "MB parts" vs. just parts that happen to include MB parts or MB look-alikes, etc.  I was wondering if some of the stories handed down re: these boxes and barrels were not in fact just misinterpretations or "mis-remembering".  Just offering another thought on the whole topic because as you noted "Maybe he did see a box of MB's, but I doubt anyone had a box of broken 146 or 149 MBs with nibs and feeds and clips and such someone else did not snap up!"  Sorry - but I really only intended to back up your comments on this with another possibility.

 

I actually asked if it was possible that some of the MB boxes refrenced previously were fakes? I know of numerous ebay auctions right now that are running right now for 149s that have a converter or cart. Supposedly with papers and boxes. To my knowledge 149s have never used converters or carts. I have also read about tables and markets in NY and Asia were they sell MB knock offs for a couple dollars each. Right next to the $5 Rolex. I have never seen these tables but would assume they exist.

 

Given the ammount of fakes and the lower quality associated with them, I would think there would be boxes of fakes that were bad writers, chiped, cracked, and bent. If someone got a fake and thought they were getting a genuine MB and it cracked does that mean that MB is a horrible company?

 

I have no doubt that MB had production problems in the past as ALL manufactures have had at one time or another. Based on the volume and sheer numbers that MB produces these would be more visible.

 

I have seen enough repair comments to know that MB will repair the problem. From a business point of view they don't want to take on the cost of repairing a $400 dollar pen for free because someone sat on it or stepped on it. So in some cases they charge a fee. I have no problem with that as well.

[KCat]

First off. No I didn't know that Frank had passed on. I was actually curious to see if this thread would have made it's way to him if he wasn't active on this board. All the quotes I posted were from the google site so I didn't know if he had ever been here. My apologies if I sounded like I was berating someone after thier passing.

That's what I thought and I only meant to make you and others aware of it. As John points out - there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the beliefs Frank held and presenting them here. I just felt you were unaware of his passing and it should be noted by everyone here since most folks here never knew Frank. I didn't *know* him, only knew of him. And I "knew" his acp-p persona quite well.

 

As far as his penchant for exaggeration (and those of a number of MB haters) - yes, that got me into more battles with him than anything.

 

I don't have any feelings re: MB one way or the other. I do think they get dinged more than they deserve. Nothing was wrong with the one I owned except the nib didn't suit me and it was too big for my hand.

 

On another board, there has been someone who comes in now and then to start an "MB Sucks" thread just to stir things up. It's just *the* topic for pen boards to fight over (with re-blackening HR coming in second?)

[Dillo]

First off. No I didn't know that Frank had passed on. I was actually curious to see if this thread would have made it's way to him if he wasn't active on this board. All the quotes I posted were from the google site so I didn't know if he had ever been here. My apologies if I sounded like I was berating someone after thier passing.

That's what I thought and I only meant to make you and others aware of it. As John points out - there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the beliefs Frank held and presenting them here. I just felt you were unaware of his passing and it should be noted by everyone here since most folks here never knew Frank. I didn't *know* him, only knew of him. And I "knew" his acp-p persona quite well.

 

As far as his penchant for exaggeration (and those of a number of MB haters) - yes, that got me into more battles with him than anything.

 

I don't have any feelings re: MB one way or the other. I do think they get dinged more than they deserve. Nothing was wrong with the one I owned except the nib didn't suit me and it was too big for my hand.

 

On another board, there has been someone who comes in now and then to start an "MB Sucks" thread just to stir things up. It's just *the* topic for pen boards to fight over (with re-blackening HR coming in second?)

Hi,

 

Yes, that is what I feel.

 

Honestly, as a pen repair person, those pens are quite good one way or the other.

 

I would have gotten another Montblanc (I have two), but I just have to start saving my money.

 

Dillon

[Gatorade]

I wonder if someone dropped one of the 100th anniversary pens made of MB granite and dammaged the cap if there would be a public outcry that granite is not hard enough to make a pen out of! :bonk:

 

I guess it just depends on how you treat your toys. If you had a MB that was made of smoked glass or clear glass and you took care of it, I would assume it would last a lifetime.

 

Play nice and put your toys away when you are done.

[saturation]

Hi Saturation,

 

Yes, it's a "monotone" (i.e. one-colour) gold nib. There's also a large 'M' in the centre of the Montblanc symbol, with '4810' above and '14C' below. I believe the 'M' is simply for 'Montblanc' as mine is certainly a Fine nib, though there are no markings to prove it!

 

However, there is no 'W. Germany' on the cap or clip.

 

This must date yours to 1989/90 at the very latest; perhaps a late 1970/80s pen, a little later than mine?

 

Best wishes

Richard

Thanks RichardS!

 

My nib is exactly as you describe. You've helped me a great deal in narrowing down the age.

 

Also I corrected a typo I made on my last post, M = MontBlanc not 'medium' which is what I wrote

[DrPJM1]

Quick question:

 

If Montblanc were a "regular" pen company with a "normal" budget for advertising,

how much would your MB 149, 146, etc pen be worth as compared to what you paid?

[saturation]

Quick question:

 

If Montblanc were a "regular" pen company with a "normal" budget for advertising,

how much would your MB 149, 146, etc pen be worth as compared to what you paid?

 

Great question. That's pretty much an ebay 'bid' without a reserve. New #146 Le Grande pay price, $100

 

In a retail store, $150

Edited February 13, 2006 by saturation

[Centurion]

I think a big part of MB's problem is that their sales reps, in particular, the old guard, are utterly rude. With some retail stores the problem is unattentive workers who ignore you, but at MB the reps go out of their way to be rude to the point of yelling where you can sense geniune anger and bitterness toward the customers. Walking by a store, I have heard it and saw it. It's embarrassingly loud for someone to be walking the mall and hearing this. I myself have also experienced this lashing out by three separate MB reps. I wonder is there some kind poison in the precious resin that the workers inhale that makes them so bitter and angry?? I say that with tongue in cheek. Anyway, their LEs IMO are pretty pens, nice designs, so while shopping I am tempted to go and look and simply not talk to the reps that way I won't get their wrath. But I am happy to report that the new guard are very helpful and very knowledgeable, sometimes they're artists. You can sense their geniune enthusiasm. I ended up buying two MBs over the year. So IMO, you're experience at MB is either getting someone really good or very bad. There still a few of the old guard around.