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Parker Sonnets in fake silver colors?


stypen

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Hi, just a quick question. I've noticed on ebay that there are Parker sonnets available that are cisele and tartan but are not actually sterling silver. Did/does Parker ever actually make these pens or are they all imitations?

 

I actually bought online a Tartan ST that I think is probably not sterling. It went for $46. I looked at the nib with a magnifying glass, and it sure looks real to me. It is actually one of the two smoothest nibs I own, so if it IS an imitation from China or anywhere else, then they did one hell of a job...but my curiosity is piqued now that I see pens available on ebay that are openly advertised as "grey" cisele or "silver color" tartan sonnets...

 

Thanks.

Edited by stypen
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I have an eBay Cisele Sonnet as well. In my case, it is a rollerball, so I didn't pay as much as I would have for the fountain pen. Also, the writing performance is obviously dependent on the rollerball insert, so it writes the same whether it's real or fake.

 

However, I did notice the other day that my Cisele Sonnet feels as if it is just a bit lighter than my lacquered finish Sonnets. Is this because there is some difference in the construction of the two models? Or have I also been duped into purchasing a fake Parker?

 

Hmm...

 

TMann

Edited by TMann
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99.99% you are right.

There is a new generation of fake sonnets that are of exceptionally good quality compared to the previous generation. Indications that I have are from photos from the microscope that show a slightly lower quality imprints on the nib and perhaps lack of iridium. I have been meaning to do some chemical analysis but have not found the opportunity yet.

 

So here are my indications:

 

NIB TIP

OK: A round hard tip material was ground to shape and a round mark remains.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/ok2.jpg

Fake: A round ball with no grinding sings is present indicating that this is most probably a steel ball rather that a hard material than needs to be shaped by grinding.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/fake1.jpg

 

The grid on the nib

OK: Sharp grid with clear shape - indicates good tools with precise tolerance and good wear resistance.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/ok1.jpg

Fake: Rough grid - bad tools (or improperly hardened tools).

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/fake2.jpg

 

Similar differences in the other marks on the nib. In each set - the first is the OK one and the second is the fake one.

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/ok5.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/fake3.jpg

 

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/ok6.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/fake4.jpg

Edited by antoniosz
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Thanks very much Antoniosz for the pictures!

 

I don't have a loupe or similar tool, but maybe I'll try to find one.

 

I still wonder if Parker at any point manufactured these models (i.e. tartan and cisele pens in silver COLORS, versus silver). That would of course help solve the mystery once and for all too...

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Richard Binder was talking about Dupont fakes at PT and gave a very good suggestion about detecting fake Dupont that is also valid for Sonnets. The new two tone sonnet nibs are made of gold (yellow color) and the "white" part is rhodium plating. The underside of the nib is not plated (of course - it would not make sense). Fake nibs are usually steel (white in color) and are gold plated all over (including the underside) to match the "real nib". If you make a small scratch on the underside you can detect the plating. So I did this test and it was plated indeed :) So they are fakes with no doubt. I will take pictures and post later tonight.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I looked in the Parker catalog for the Tartan with chrome trim you mention, but I don't see it. Am I just blind?

Page 10 in http://www.parkerpens.net/catalogue/2005/c...ue2005small.pdf :)

Edited by antoniosz
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Hi,

 

Parker has different catalogues for different countries.

 

Anyway, nice job Antonios!

 

Dillon

Stolen: Aurora Optima Demonstrator Red ends Medium nib. Serial number 1216 and Aurora 98 Cartridge/Converter Black bark finish (Archivi Storici) with gold cap. Reward if found. Please contact me if you have seen these pens.

Please send vial orders and other messages to fpninkvials funny-round-mark-thing gmail strange-mark-thing com. My shop is open once again if you need help with your pen.

Will someone with the name of "Jay" who emailed me through the email system provide me an email address? There was no email address provided, so I can't write back.

Dillon

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  • 4 weeks later...

One more evidence for the "suspected" fake.

This is an x-ray photo of the fake (left) and the real (right-which is a bit turned) nibs. The thickess of the nibs is identical. The left one looks is most probably steel (lower absorption, 7.8 density, atomic number 26), and the right one is the gold one (higher absorption, density 20. and atomic number 79)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/compare.jpg

Edited by antoniosz
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One more evidence for the "suspected" fake.

This is an x-ray photo of the fake (left) and the real (right-which is a bit turned) nibs. The thickess of the nibs is identical. The left one looks is most probably steel (lower absorption, 7.8 density, atomic number 26), and the right one is the gold one (higher absorption, density 20. and atomic number 79)

http://www.streamload.com/azavalia/compare.jpg

Impressive sleuthing, good job!

 

Alas, one is not able to discern those differences on eBay, don't you think?

 

So buyer beware.

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Alas, one is not able to discern those differences on eBay, don't you think?

So buyer beware.

Correct :(

For example the seller that I got the fake from (I was looking for a fake), had 99.5% positive feedback in 800 transactions ....

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Stypen,

 

I believe I am familiar with the pen you describe, as I have one too and was wondering about its origin. My pen writes wonderfully, as a true Parker should, and the craftsmanship leaves nothing to be desired. Fortunately, I have a Parker Cisele ballpen, purchased from a stationery store last year, which is sterling silver, and I was able to compare the two side by side. There is absolutely no difference in the gold trim, but the fountain pen is definitely not sterling silver; it does not tarnish and there is no precious-metal marking on the cap, for instance. I should note also that the fountain pen was purchased on Ebay from a reputable dealer, and the pen was not described as sterling silver, so I have no problem really. Yet, I was curious about the pen. I found some interesting information online about Parker fakes, but nothing seemed to jibe with my pen; it had none of the characteristics used in describing the fakes. I called the main Parker Pen phone number and spoke with a very kind woman on the phone. She seemed knowledgeable, certainly, but I kept in mind that -- considering Parker is just one of the many products under the auspices of the Sanford Corporation, Rubbermaid, etc. -- I might take some of what she said with a grain of salt. She said that Parker does not make a Cisele model that is not sterling silver. Frankly, though, it struck me that she didn't really know about the overseas catalogs. I then thought, why not ask the seller? So, I did. He was very kind as well -- and kind enough to promptly respond, even though I'd purchased the pen months ago. More or less, he said that I was correct in my assumptions, that indeed the pen was a genuine Parker, guaranteed, but that no, it was not sterling silver, might be considered a "factory second", and an item usually offered overseas. And I believe him.

 

I hope this helps. I am happy with my pen, which I purchased for a good price. It has a solid gold nib and writes beautifully, and it will never tarnish. So be it.

 

Very truly yours,

 

Bradley

http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Bradley_064/th_Bradleyssignature.jpg
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There is absolutely no difference in the gold trim, but the fountain pen is definitely not sterling silver; it does not tarnish and there is no precious-metal marking on the cap, for instance.

 

Is it possible to post any photos of the pen as well as the bottom part of the cap?

 

  Frankly, though, it struck me that she didn't really know about the overseas catalogs. 

 

What overseas catalogs are you refering to?

 

I then thought, why not ask the seller?  So, I did.  He was very kind as well -- and kind enough to promptly respond, even though I'd purchased the pen months ago.  More or less, he said that I was correct in my assumptions, that indeed the pen was a genuine Parker, guaranteed, but that no, it was not sterling silver, might be considered a "factory second", and an item usually offered overseas.  And I believe him.

 

A "factory second" that is not sterling? Hmmm, send me the name back-channel to make sure that I never buy from this person again. ;)

 

Regards,

 

AntoniosZ.

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Hi,

 

There is some details to make the difference between a fake and a genuine parker SONNET:

 

the twist of the original pen is much more flexible, no copy even well done arrive to reproduce the twist of the SONNET ballpen; Engravings on the ring of the cap are imperfect and dribble. On the Fountain pens the screw of the block nib feather hangs abnormally compared to an original, the behaviour of the converter is worse.

 

Sorry for my poor English, J.M.Lewertowski

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Kissing, I am familiar with the web article you mentioned. I've read it numerous times and find it very interesting and informative. This being said, none of the characteristics of a fake are present in my pen. Other than my pen not being sterling silver, it matches completely the defining characteristics of an authentic Parker. I've tried the magnet test: there is no attraction to the solid 18kt gold nib whatsoever. But thanks!

 

Cordially,

 

Bradley

Edited by Bradley
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Bradley_064/th_Bradleyssignature.jpg
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Bradley, I have a special interest in what you are describing because I wrote that article that kissing referenced :) But a lot of time has passed since. In fact the "cute" magnetic test is no longer valid as new versions of fakes have appeared with non magnetic steel nibs. In fact a more recent article by Bill Riepl appeared recently in the Stylophiles, see http://www.stylophilesonline.com/07-06/07sonn.htm. I expressed doubt about Parker selling less than perfect pens in other markets abroad because these are companies that care very, very much about image to undermine themselves in such a way (but of course I could be wrong).

 

Mr. Lewertowski, would you mind repeating your comment in French? My french is much worse than your english but perhaps someone else might help us establish exactly the points that you are raising. Thanks in advance.

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