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Stub vs italic nibs


Firefyter-Emt

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I am looking to have a Parker nib re-tipped by Greg Minuskin and I love italic tipped pens. However, I seem to like stubs nibs too as I have a couple like that too. What exactly is the diffrence between them? Greg told me I need to choose which one, but I am not sure. This nib is going on a really nice gold pearl Vacumatic which I love the look of, but needed to be re-tipped. I want one that feels good for writing and makes my penmanship look better than it is. :embarrassed_smile: :ltcapd:

Edited by Firefyter-Emt

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A real italics has sharp edges to make very crisp lines. A stub has rounded edges that doesn't have as crisp of a line. You cannot write quickly with an italics like you can with a stub because the edge is more likely to catch the paper and tear.

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As Huy mentioned, an italic nib has sharp edges. A cursive italic nib has very slightly rounded edges to minimize the possibility of sharp edges catching on the paper. A stub is even more rounded. Richard Binder's website has some magnified pictures of these various nibs. They're very helpful in understanding the difference in these nibs.

 

Judybug

 

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I will also suggest that you have a look at Richard's site for a good explanation of the italic nib types. Stub nibs are ever so pleasing to write with, but they do not have sugnificant line variation. The compromise between the three layers of italic nibs is usually the cursive italic, with good line variation and smoother edges (than the crisp italic). Since Greg is a nib meister with considerable skill, you might ask him for a stub nib that is sharpened enough for some line variation.

 

Good luck. Please tell us what you get, and how you like it.

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Thanks! I have been all over Richards site and did not remember seeing it there. Although, after reading it it is even less clear! It sounds like the stub nib or rounded italic nib is what I am looking for. ;)

 

I just want enough to notice, yet still be useable daily without problems of the lines being too thick. I will most likly go with a med stub and hope for the best! I had sent Greg another e-mail about what the diffrence was, but he might be out as he did not get back to me yet. That is why I figured I would post up as it has bugged me in the past about what the diffrence really was between them.

 

Thanks again, I will try to remember to add a reply about how it came out. I only paid $40 for the pen and it's in mint shape so I figure to get a Minuskin nib in a Vacumatic and still be at $100 it is a good deal.

“If you want your children to improve, let them overhear the nice things you say about them to others.” ~Dr. Haim Ginott

 

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Go go Richard Binder's website and on the left-hand side click on "Reference Info.". Scroll down "Reference Info." to "Nibs, Feeds and Filling Systems" and click on the first item, "Nibs I: The Basics" and after that "Nibs II: Beyond the Basics with Specilaty Nibs". It's all there with great illustrations. I have two stubs and one cursive Italic and they're great fun to write with.

Edited by Rufus

Bryan

 

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Greg is in Portland, at the Portland Pen Show this weekend (lucky dog!), so you might not hear from him for a while.

 

I don't have much to add to the discussion of stub vs. italic, other than to say I just handled one of Greg's nibs, in fact I fitted it to a Parker Vacumatic for a customer. The customer's request was for a large new tip with as much line variation as possible. What came back was an incredibly smooth writing nib with enough line variation to make it enjoyable.

 

You may be able to tell from the statement I just made that I think line variation is kind of a personal preference thing. People that regrind nibs (or retip them) probably all have some variability in factors like line variation and smoothness. One (wo)man's stub is another's italic. There can be a big difference in the amount of line variation you get from a stub, with the primary factor being ho much the writing edge is rounded. The rounder it is, the less line width variation.

 

One thing I can say for sure: You'll like Greg's work and he'll shape your nib to your specifications. Good luck on your quest, and please remember to let us all know how you like the end results!

 

 

Cheers,

Tom

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Hi Lee!

 

I am, by my own admission, a stub fanatic! And so it would follow that I would encourage you to go with a stub, as they are "most wonderful"! But I wonder if you might like to try a cursive italic nib in that pen? It really does bring out the line width variation that a stub begins to give you. You do have to write a little slower, but what's so bad about that with a pen like this? Besides, if you find that a cursive italic is a bit too sharp for you, you could always smooth it out yourself, since you are a handy guy with pens!

 

You didn't say what width you were shooting for with this nib. If you like something a bit narrower, a cursive italic in about a .7 or even a .5, with a bit of flex, might be a real interesting nib!!!

 

I have had one pen done by Greg, and he took that was a disappointment in a number of ways, and turned it into a luscious, almost sinful writing device! I trust that whatever you choose, you will enjoy what you get back from him!

 

But if you're still unsure, because I know you (I have one of your pens, remember?), I have a nib unit for a Vanishing Point in a cursive italic that I'd let you try for a while. And if you don't have a Vanishing Point, I'd even let you try one of those at the same time!

 

Good Luck!

 

Scott.

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I think Greg may be at or on the way to Portland for the pen show this weekend.

 

Lee, you could sent the pen to me along with the ones you refinished for me and I could have given it to him this weekend.

 

Thanks again for the work on the pens, they look great.

 

Thanks! I have been all over Richards site and did not remember seeing it there. Although, after reading it it is even less clear! It sounds like the stub nib or rounded italic nib is what I am looking for. ;)

 

I just want enough to notice, yet still be useable daily without problems of the lines being too thick. I will most likly go with a med stub and hope for the best! I had sent Greg another e-mail about what the diffrence was, but he might be out as he did not get back to me yet. That is why I figured I would post up as it has bugged me in the past about what the diffrence really was between them.

 

Thanks again, I will try to remember to add a reply about how it came out. I only paid $40 for the pen and it's in mint shape so I figure to get a Minuskin nib in a Vacumatic and still be at $100 it is a good deal.

 

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/rogerb40uk/StubsandCIs.jpg

 

I don't know if this helps...my scrawl with various stub and c.i. nibs.

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

 

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I am looking to have a Parker nib re-tipped by Greg Minuskin and I love italic tipped pens. However, I seem to like stubs nibs too as I have a couple like that too. What exactly is the diffrence between them? Greg told me I need to choose which one, but I am not sure. This nib is going on a really nice gold pearl Vacumatic which I love the look of, but needed to be re-tipped. I want one that feels good for writing and makes my penmanship look better than it is. :embarrassed_smile: :ltcapd:

 

There's no "exact" difference (and unless I'm much mistaken the terminology used today - crisp italic, cursive italic, stub - or at least the attempt to make these terms seem precise and distinct, is a fairly recent invention by nibmeisters; pen companies, even today, don't follow these naming conventions: what Stipula and Conway Stewart, for instance, call plain "italic" would probably be classified by a modern nibmeister as stubs, and when it comes to vintage pens, all bets are off - e.g. every pre-WWII English Mabie Todd I've encountered with a medium or broad nib is what a nibmeister would likely call a stub, as is every pre-c. 1960 German "B" or "BB" nib).

 

Those who use these terms will likely tell you that cursive italics and stubs are more round-edged than crisp italics, and that they vary in the thinness of the horizontal line, the thinnest being crisp italics, then cursive, then stub. But how does this work in practice? It's not as hopelessly subjective as flex terminology, but there are no precise standards here. Besides, some regrinders give you a choice of line thickness when ordering, say, a stub (what's the difference between a cursive italic and a stub with very thin horizontal lines?); and I have tried stubs and cursive italics from one particular nibmeister which are barely distinguishable, if at all.

 

So I think you would be better off describing how you want the nib to write (do you want a lot of line variation? a high degree of smoothness? to be able to write fast? etc.), or asking him what he means (he may email you photos of writing samples). (In my experience, Minuskin does a marvelous job on nibs, but his preference seems to be for big, blobby tips and his stubs, unless you request otherwise, provide little line variation.)

 

Simon

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Thanks guys, I figured Greg was on a trip or something. Bong, thanks for the offer, it would of worked out nice too!

 

Scott, I have a couple now and I love them! In fact, I found that my OBB Mont-Blanc nib fit into the Parker! (I still plan to have it tipped as the OBB is a bit too wide) I have a custom ground Estie with a stub nib as well as one I tried myself. (I need to re-grind it a hair thinner for the cross stroke)

 

I really do not like "scratchy pens" I want the pen to glide like it has been oiled so I think the stub is the way to go.

 

Now for line width, I have been thinking something in the range of a med, but that sample from Roger really helps! Does anyone know where the OBB nib in my Mont-Blanc would fit?

 

BTW, I see on Richards site where you wanted me to look now! If you scroll down there is an artice that is "Nib's - Stub & Italic" Read that one and you will see my point for being confused even more about the diffrence!

 

 

“If you want your children to improve, let them overhear the nice things you say about them to others.” ~Dr. Haim Ginott

 

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Glad to be of assistance :)

 

If you want really smoooooth, then I think you have to ask for a 'Medium width (not more than about 0.9), smooth stub with some line-width variation'..... my Waterman Exception is my best example of this.

 

But I think Greg's CIs are a bit less 'sharp' than Richard's, so you might get away with a CI from him .....I have a Pilot which I was assured had a GM CI and I've had to have it made a bit sharper....not enough variation for my taste(tbh, I hardly noticed any! can't post example as it's with my UK nibmeister!).

So, whatever you ask for, make sure you emphasise your width-variation requirement...you can be assured he won't send you anything 'scratchy'!

Edited by rogerb

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

 

Don Marquis

US humorist (1878 - 1937)

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Roger: Thanks for those excellent writing samples!

CharlieB

 

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Thanks for the writing samples, Roger.

 

Roger wrote:

 

"If you want really smoooooth, then I think you have to ask for a 'Medium width (not more than about 0.9), smooth stub with some line-width variation'..... "

 

I am not trying to be pedantic, I just want to understand the various italic sizes. I am referencing my experience with factory Duofold and Stipula nibs. I had thought that F=0.9mm, M=1.1mm, and B=1.3mm. Hence, to say "M" would be to request a 1.1mm point size. One might be better off just asking for a specific size like 0.7mm or 0.9mm?

 

Does my question make sense?

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/rogerb40uk/StubsandCIs.jpg

 

I don't know if this helps...my scrawl with various stub and c.i. nibs.

 

Thank you SO much for that scan! I am often curious to see side by side these different nibs. Very helpful :)

Lamy AL-star - 1.1 (Omas Violet)

Nakaya Celluloid Mottishaw F Flex (PR Arabian Rose)

Omas Bologna - M (Noodler's Golden Brown)

Pelikan M620 Grand Place - Binder XF/XXF Flex (Noodler's Navajo Turquoise)

Stipula 22 - 0.9 (Waterman Florida Blue)

Waterman Patrician - M (Waterman Florida Blue)

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Thanks for the writing samples, Roger.

 

Roger wrote:

 

"If you want really smoooooth, then I think you have to ask for a 'Medium width (not more than about 0.9), smooth stub with some line-width variation'..... "

 

I am not trying to be pedantic, I just want to understand the various italic sizes. I am referencing my experience with factory Duofold and Stipula nibs. I had thought that F=0.9mm, M=1.1mm, and B=1.3mm. Hence, to say "M" would be to request a 1.1mm point size. One might be better off just asking for a specific size like 0.7mm or 0.9mm?

 

Does my question make sense?

 

If I may stick my nose in, your question certainly makes sense, and that's probably the best way to go about it if you're starting from scratch with a retipped nib. You should know, though, that nib regrinders don't all measure the same way - some measure by nib width, others by the width of the line made on paper by the nib; so if you want a very precise result, you should mention this. As for your description of those measurements, I, and I suspect others, would classify them differently - fine would be 0.5-0.6, medium would be 0.7-0.9, broad would be 1.0-1.1, and so on.

 

Simon

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Simon wrote:

 

" ... As for your description of those measurements, I, and I suspect others, would classify them differently - fine would be 0.5-0.6, medium would be 0.7-0.9, broad would be 1.0-1.1, and so on."

 

Thanks, Simon. I was not aware of the measurements you posted.

 

Because nib meisters differ in their interpretation of point sizes, I always make it a point to include a writing sample, and I definitely suggest that others do the same. My goal is the product on paper, plus a decent writing experience, whatever the meister(in) calls their nib size.

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I just had a tip done by Greg. In fact, it was my pen that Tom was talking about above. (One correction, I was looking for as little as variation as possible, and Tom is right, I got just enough to make it interesting).

 

I was in the same boat as firefyter; I paid $40 for my vac (thanks rroossinck) which had already been restored (thanks Tom) but was missing one tine of tipping (thanks rroossinck). I was tempted to get it re-tipped when I got it (many months ago), but I am very glad that I did not because I would have gotten a really fine tip put on it and my tastes have changed since then. I have also realized that fine tips are super common, so if I was going to pay $60 for a tip I might as well get the biggest tip that I can. And that is what I did, I asked Greg for the fattest, roundest, nib that he can make.

 

I cannot add much to the above conversation about stubs vs italics. But I quote Phthalo here.

 

Stub - Can write pretty fast.

Cursive Italic - Slow down here.

(Crisp) Italic - Proceed with caution.

 

This is my 1.3mm double-broad super ball. (Greg's pic; I will take some of my own soon).

 

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Fool: One who subverts convention or orthodoxy or varies from social conformity in order to reveal spiritual or moral truth.

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Thanks for all the info. Just reading and getting hungry to try out a stubby :lol:

Pelikan M800 Black with Green. (F) Army Green

Paradise Pens 5280 Carbon Fiber.(F) DC Supershow Blue

Mont Blanc Meisterstuck 149 (M) Black Cherry

Sailor 1911 F Demonstrator (M) Kiri-Same

Pilot VP Raden (M) Seasons Greetings 06

Pilot VP Yellow (F) Baystate Blue

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