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Estie Questions


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#1 Gerry

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 15:15

Wondering if any of the resident Estie Experts could shed some light on the following question...

Estie jewels - colours. Were the three ribbed jewels sometimes found on earlier Esterbrooks offered in other colours than Black and deep red? I have both - with the red being almost black in appearance as it is so deep, yet it has a transparent quality to it. I have heard that Green may have been available...

Regarding the regular jewels, the doctor's pens often had red and black jewels to indicate the colour of ink - I also have a pastel pen with yellow jewels. Any other colour instances noted?

Gerry

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#2 mr_inky

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 17:16

I have a pastel green Estie Purse Pen (CH) with Green jewels. The pen color was called Country Green. Found at a Flea Market for $10.00.

I think on the Purse Pens (both CH & H) the jewels were of a color to "match" the pen.
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#3 Keith with a capital K

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 17:57

Brian Anderson is da man when it comes to Esterbrook and I believe some of his pens made their way into the new Hoban book (?)

I actually met Brian some years ago because of a burning Esterbrook question I had and that question led to what has been a good friendship.

We have yet to meet in person and share those cool ones he owes me but I hope that is something we will be able to do this year in Chicago.

Anyways... I just fix Esterbrooks and what I know about their lore and history would only be a drop in a very large bucket.

Cheers!

(edited for abundant typos)

Edited by Keith with a capital K, 10 December 2004 - 17:58.

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#4 Brian Anderson

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:01

Wondering if any of the resident Estie Experts could shed some light on the following question...

Estie jewels - colours.  Were the three ribbed jewels sometimes found on earlier Esterbrooks offered in other colours than Black and deep red?  I have both - with the red being almost black in appearance as it is so deep, yet it has a transparent quality to it.  I have heard that Green may have been available...

Regarding the regular jewels, the doctor's pens often had red and black jewels to indicate the colour of ink - I also have a pastel pen with yellow jewels.  Any other colour instances noted?

Gerry

With respect to three ribbed jewels, I'm not sold on the fact the "deep red" variant was supposed to be that way. I'm a skeptic when it comes to stuff like that. Until I can find some proof, my opinion is it was just a different material they had around to make the jewels and it appears dark red. I've neither heard nor seen a green three ribbed jewel. Sounds like some kind of prototype or urban legend or something. Sort of like the whole midnight blue/black SM deluxe thing...

I'm not a pastel expert by any means, it's the one series I just don't "get" with respect to Esterbrook. The prices are too high, the plastic too brittle and the pens just to dang small. Anyway, off my soapbox... :) I do own a couple of them. I believe the later model purse pens had matching colored jewels, whereas the earlier models had black jewels. Just looking at the Hoban cover, we find white, yellow, pink and purple. Red is also found on Tempo Red, the brightest, darkest red purse pen found, and one of the harder to find.

Then there's the SM Deluxe series, which also has matching color jewels, in dark blue (midnight blue SM), burgundy, and green. Can't say which jewel the grey SM has, that's the only one I don't have (Bruce, you ready to give yours up yet? :) )

I'd actually be interested in seeing a list of all the purse pen colors and jewel combinations available sorted by rarity so I know what I'm in for. I think I have four or five, some with pencils, all earlier models with black jewels. Anyone have a complete list? Hoban's book is a little short from what I understand.

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#5 Brian Anderson

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:29

Brian Anderson is da man when it comes to Esterbrook and I believe some of his pens made their way into the new Hoban book (?)

I actually met Brian some years ago because of a burning Esterbrook question I had and that question led to what has been a good friendship.

We have yet to meet in person and share those cool ones he owes me but I hope that is something we will be able to do this year in Chicago.

Keith-

I had two pens make their way in the new Erano book, unfortunately, the pics weren't labeled properly, and my name doesn't appear anywhere. :( Oh well...

You still have that Black dollar pen? I recall trying to figure out the imprint variant on it to determine the proper cap. Man, I can be anal sometimes...

Keep yourself well this year, I'm hoping to once again make it for at least two of the days of the show. Those Saturday private days are just too much fun and many great pens can be seen in a much more relaxed atmosphere. If Saturday happens, there may be many frosty beverages undertaken at the hotel. :D

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#6 Gerry

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:31

[snip]

With respect to three ribbed jewels, I'm not sold on the fact the "deep red" variant was supposed to be that way.  I'm a skeptic when it comes to stuff like that.  Until I can find some proof, my opinion is it was just a different material they had around to make the jewels and it appears dark red.  I've neither heard nor seen a green three ribbed jewel.  Sounds like some kind of prototype or urban legend or something.  Sort of like the whole midnight blue/black SM deluxe thing...

[snip]

Best-
Brian


Could be. The one I have is definitely different from the blacks though. If it were a material change, they didn't appreciate (or care) about the actual colour change from the traditional black jewels. These do appear almost black unless you look closely.

Green - gotta look into it a little more...

Regards

Gerry

#7 Brian Anderson

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 15:34

Could be.  The one I have is definitely different from the blacks though.  If it were a material change, they didn't appreciate (or care) about the actual colour change from the traditional black jewels.  These do appear almost black unless you look closely.

Green - gotta look into it a little more...

Gerry-

Yeah, I've got several of them. Which clip/imprint/color variants do yours fall on? Mine fall on the following:

R. Esterbrook imprint: Grey
Esterbrook imprint: Grey, Blue, Copper

Then again, I also have similar models (a duplicate Copper with Esterbrook imprint) with the black jewels, and other R. Esterbrook imprinted three ribbed varites with black jewels.

Love to hear some proof on a green jewel. Maybe an OD pen with one?

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#8 Gerry

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 18:50

Gerry-

Yeah, I've got several of them.  Which clip/imprint/color variants do yours fall on? Mine fall on the following:

R. Esterbrook imprint: Grey
Esterbrook imprint: Grey, Blue, Copper

Then again, I also have similar models (a duplicate Copper with Esterbrook imprint) with the black jewels, and other R. Esterbrook imprinted three ribbed varites with black jewels.

Love to hear some proof on a green jewel.  Maybe an OD pen with one?

Best-
Brian

Mine has the Esterbrook imprint, like the majority of yours.

The Grey one may be a variant - but one is always a little cautious to say any particularly different combination is original, since so many parts interchange so easily, a barrel could have been swapped any time... At least that's the impression Paul Hoban gave me when I was speaking to him re my dark green three groove cap (or bandless cap if you prefer).

Paul's book argues that those are prototype models as they don't carry an imprint. Mine does (R. Esterbrook). While Paul thought the barrels may have been switched - I find it rather difficult to believe, as the cap and barrel colour match so closely. Not one of my other green Esties have the same dark green that this one does... So, who knows, your Grey may be an original variant - or not ;)

Regarding the Green jewel, the pen isn't mine, but rather another collector's in my area. I hope to get a look at it in January - so we'll have to contain our curiosity until then. Hope he's not just talking about a Pastel pen... <_<


Cheers


Gerry

Edited by Gerry, 11 December 2004 - 20:04.


#9 Brian Anderson

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 06:15

Paul's book argues that those are prototype models as they don't carry an imprint.  Mine does (R. Esterbrook).  While Paul thought the barrels may have been switched - I find it rather difficult to believe, as the cap and barrel colour match so closely.  Not one of my other green Esties have the same dark green that this one does... So, who knows, your Grey may be an original variant - or not  ;)

Regarding the Green jewel, the pen isn't mine, but rather another collector's in my area.  I hope to get a look at it in January - so we'll have to contain our curiosity until then.  Hope he's not just talking about a Pastel pen...

Gerry-

Hard to say what happend with the three ribs. Unless I can find proof of it being a unique original variant (that is, advertised as red jewels), I'll just treat it as something different. I don't think I'll go out of my way to grab them up, but then again, I'm pretty obsessive about variants. :)

Paul's book was really an early work, at a time when people were dismissing esterbrook pens as easy as some dismiss arnold and wearever today. Not to run down his work, but there are a number of errors and obvious omissions that make the book more of a reference rather than a "bible" per se. In 1992 the internet wasn't really a venue for pen trading, so people took what they could get from other collectors and flea markets and antique stores nearby.

Bandless pens, as they have been known to be called, are obviously NOT a prototype, and I suspect his model didn't have an imprint because it was simply worn down so much he couldn't see it. I've got a half a drawer full of them in all colors, including examples in all three sizes, two different lever variants, and one fairly rare variant with a friction fit re-new-point. THAT one may be a prototype, but as for the rest, no way. They show up too often to be anything other than a normal production pen. The green bandless is a lovely green, mine is also the same dark green not to be found on any other model. I searched long and hard for mine, and drove many, many hours to acquire it.

Do make a point to let us all know the status of the mysterious green jewel. If a picture could be taken, even a crude one at that, I'd love to see it. Always interested to know of what happened in between 1942 and 1948.

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#10 Maja

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 19:34

Keith-
I had two pens make their way in the new Erano book, unfortunately, the pics weren't labeled properly, and my name doesn't appear anywhere.  :(  Oh well...

Hi Brian,
May I ask which pens were yours? I have both editions of Paul Erano's book--nice photography and great info....
Cheers,
Maja
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#11 Brian Anderson

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 04:39

May I ask which pens were yours?

Hi Maja-

I don't have my Erano book handy (leant it to a friend for some other research) but if you go to the back of the book (2nd edition), there's a nice spread of pens attributed to Lisa Hanes. We had David I. take pics at the same time, probably adding to the confusion. I have a yellow cracked ice model on the top row (maybe third in form the left?) and on the bottom row a $1.50 model in grey I think(2nd from the left if I recall correctly). Hopefully changes will be made in the next printing. Only reason I know they're mine is because these marbled plastics are like fingerprints, no two exactly alike.

Oh well... Almost, I guess. :)

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#12 Maja

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 06:35

Oh, I see them, Brian....Very nice! It's a very nice shot...and now your pens are famous :)
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#13 Gerry

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 00:20

Brian Anderson wrote:

The green bandless is a lovely green, mine is also the same dark green not to be found on any other model. I searched long and hard for mine, and drove many, many hours to acquire it.

Yes, I just love that colour too.

Well, the fate of my pen may turn out to be a question of value. Is the bandless - esp in Green considered valuable? I am wondering because it may be worth having the chip from the cap lip professionally restored. If not, there are always two possibilities - a hack restoration of my own, or the sanding down of the lip until the chipped area is gone. Either way, the value is significantly reduced I believe.


Gerry

#14 Brian Anderson

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 13:35

Well, the fate of my pen may turn out to be a question of value.  Is the bandless - esp in Green considered valuable?  I am wondering because it may be worth having the chip from the cap lip professionally restored.  If not, there are always two possibilities - a hack restoration of my own, or the sanding down of the lip until the chipped area is gone.  Either way, the value is significantly reduced I believe.

Here's the post-christmas reply....

Whether or not green bandless are considered valuable is really a matter of market forces I'd say. It's certainly a bit more scarce than other variants, and doesn't show up that often. However, I wouldn't think fully restored it'd be worth more than $65 in a well advertised auction. Now, if it's the friction fit re-new-point version, with correct good nib, we're talking a whole other ballgame.

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#15 Gerry

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 14:53

Here's the post-christmas reply....

Whether or not green bandless are considered valuable is really a matter of market forces I'd say.  It's certainly a bit more scarce than other variants, and doesn't show up that often.  However, I wouldn't think fully restored it'd be worth more than $65 in a well advertised auction.  Now, if it's the friction fit re-new-point version, with correct good nib, we're talking a whole other ballgame.

Best-
Brian


Well, yeah... friction fit section, screw on two hole cap - exactly like pp 30 in Hoban's book - except the clip is much better in mine - no rusting.

A 2442 Falcon Stub, flat bottom feed - re-new screw in point....

What whole other ball game might that be? :)


Gerry

#16 Brian Anderson

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 15:07

Well, yeah... friction fit section, screw on two hole cap - exactly like pp 30 in Hoban's book - except the clip is much better in mine - no rusting.

A 2442 Falcon Stub, flat bottom feed - re-new screw in point....

What whole other ball game might that be?  :)

Not friction fit section, rather friction fit re-new-point. Some bandless pens have sections wth no threads, and the re-new-point itself is slightly different. It won't work in any other esterbrook, and no standard screw in re-new-point will fit in this section. Of course, I'm only aware of two such examples, both in black, but speculation is they exist in other colors.

THAT's a whole other ball game.

Best-
Brian
www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.

#17 Gerry

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 15:19

Ahhhhh,

Sigh...

Well - she's right in the middle of the 'wonder if she's worth professional help' range I guess.

Thanks for the info Brian...






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