Chartpak v. Noodler's (Round Two)

[Will Argyle]

Hey all,

 

I'm a Noodler's fan--so I have no axe to grind here--I'm just passing something along.

 

I recently sent a new 625 to Chartpak because the nib was running dry/skipping. I told Abigail that I used Aurora Black, Iraqi Indigo, and Fox Red.

 

Her reply:

 

I wanted to clarify the information that I gave to you when I said that we recommend WATER SOLUBLE INKS for Pelikan pens, such as Pelikan, Aurora, Waterman.

 

I should also add that we DO NOT recommend any water resistant, water proof or permanent types of inks, such as the two waterproof Noodler's inks that you have used in this Pelikan pen.

 

Below is some info that I quickly found on the internet:

 

"Iraqi Indigo is a deep violet and contains the special Noodler's cellulose reactive dyes so that once dry on paper, it is permanent and waterproof."

http://www.moleskinerie.com/2005/02/iraqi_indigo_a_.html

 

"I have a bottle of Fox Red. It is completely opaque. No transparency at all. Mine works well: waterproof, fade resistant. The color is a bit on the orange side of the red range. It is not quite as red as Cartridge Skrip or Levenger's Cardinal Red."

(Fountain pen network)

 

Any questions, please contact me.

Regards,

Abi

 

I read through Chartpak v. Noodler's (round one), and read many posts explaining away Chartpak's prior warning as vague. By contrast, this warning is very explicit. I don't plan to quit using Noodler's, but I thought it worth knowing that Chartpak explicitly dissuades Pelikan owners from using Noodler's inks.

 

Don't shoot the messenger,

 

Will

 

 

 

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The permanents do leave quite a lot of non-soluble residue in the pen, that's why I stopped using them ages ago. (I also had an allergic reaction to the permanents). The non-soluble reside can be removed only by wiping the affected parts, but that is not a very convenient thing to do with the Pelikan nib units.

 

At least they didn't tell you to use only Pelikan inks!

 

Dillon

Edited April 2, 2008 by Dillo

[kiavonne]

 

These are Chartpak recommendations, however, not void-my-warranty-written-in-stone-don't-do-it! If they void a warranty, then it needs to have been clearly stated that the use of Noodler's or any other permanent ink will void said warranty, and not have a round-the-bush chase.

 

I'm not having any problems with my Pelikans and Noodler's, and I don't intend to stop using Noodler's. I even cleaned out my M200 that had Baystate in it. Took a little longer, but cleaned out ok and didn't stain. If it can handle Baystate, it can handle any other Noodler's with which I decide to ink it.

Edited April 2, 2008 by kiavonne

[HDoug]

For me, fountain pens are just methods of getting Noodler's inks onto paper. Not really, but almost. But I am also fully mindful that it is my obligation to rinse my pen every now and then and make sure things don't get grunged up. So far, so good. Thanks for posting the response you received -- information is always better than its absence.

 

Doug

[cmenice]

For me, fountain pens are just methods of getting Noodler's inks onto paper.

 

Exactly How I feel

[kiavonne]

But I am also fully mindful that it is my obligation to rinse my pen every now and then and make sure things don't get grunged up. So far, so good. Thanks for posting the response you received -- information is always better than its absence.

 

Doug

 

 

Very good point, and I fully agree, Doug. And yes, some information is better than no information at all.

[Mr.Rene]

special Noodler's cellulose reactive dyes so that once dry on paper, it is permanent and waterproof."

By the way, this is a commercial trick really, "cellulose reactive dyes" I mean...Noodler Waterproof inks are waterproof because have a kind of synthetic polymer used in Arts and Adhesives,etc. works like a "coat" to protect the dye after the ink is complete dried ....this is the reason why this kind of ink looks "milky" ,white sediment in the bottle's bottom,no intense colour like the simple line...etc.

Best Regards,

René.

 

[savarez]

By the way, this is a commercial trick really, "cellulose reactive dyes" I mean...Noodler Waterproof inks are waterproof because have a kind of synthetic polymer used in Arts and Adhesives,etc. works like a "coat" to protect the dye after the ink is complete dried ....this is the reason why this kind of ink looks "milky" ,white sediment in the bottle's bottom,no intense colour like the simple line...etc.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth here.... are you saying that there is no such thing as a "cellulose reactive dye" (quote: "this is a commercial trick really) and that Noodler's are waterproof/bulletproof because of the "coating"?

 

Perhaps you could explain your source for this information? Since this is not what Noodler's says about its own ink.

Edited April 2, 2008 by savarez

[Deirdre]

For me, fountain pens are just methods of getting Noodler's inks onto paper. Not really, but almost. But I am also fully mindful that it is my obligation to rinse my pen every now and then and make sure things don't get grunged up.

Agreed. Plus rinsing pens out allows one to change colors!

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The cellulose reactive dye is used primarily to dye cotton cloth from what I've heard. For some reason, it seems to leave behind a film of some sort in the pen.

 

It's really just a preference thing in my opinion. If you don't mind the residue it leaves as much as I do, then it doesn't really matter as much.

 

Dillon

[Viseguy]

Not shooting the messenger, just noting that the message is baloney, based on my experience. I've been using Noodler's bulletproof/eternal inks in five (5) Pelikan Souverän FPs for four (4) years now, and there hasn't been a skip, or any other problem, in sight. But, then again, all but one of those pens came from Mottishaw or Binder; I can't help but think that this has something to do with these pens' flawless performance with these Noodler's inks over said number of years. And I'm not obsessive about flushing my pens, either. I flush when I change colors.

[Bill Smith]

I am using Midnight blue in one M800, Baystate Blue in another, and Polar Blue (which has lubricating properties) in a couple of 400's and my M 600. No issues.

[mturk]

Just an observation - Noodlers Ink seems to have gone from a "writing fluid" to a religion in a very few years. I too tried the bullet-proof black when it first arrived, and it led to major surgery on a couple of Parker 51 vacs. Since then I've used Legal Lapis in a Bexley with no ill effects, except I don't like the color. But my point is, I have never seen such strong defensive reactions to ink criticism before. If you whine about PR ink, you will have company. Complain about Quink, MB or another brand and people jump on the band wagon, but pointing out that Noodler's may be a difficult product and the villagers light their torches and head for the castle. Frankly, even though I actually write extensively with all my pens, I define myself as a pen collector, not an ink collector, and certainly not a "defender of the faith"!

[limesally]

Just an observation - Noodlers Ink seems to have gone from a "writing fluid" to a religion in a very few years. I too tried the bullet-proof black when it first arrived, and it led to major surgery on a couple of Parker 51 vacs. Since then I've used Legal Lapis in a Bexley with no ill effects, except I don't like the color. But my point is, I have never seen such strong defensive reactions to ink criticism before. If you whine about PR ink, you will have company. Complain about Quink, MB or another brand and people jump on the band wagon, but pointing out that Noodler's may be a difficult product and the villagers light their torches and head for the castle. Frankly, even though I actually write extensively with all my pens, I define myself as a pen collector, not an ink collector, and certainly not a "defender of the faith"!

 

Just to offer another observation - I've seen plenty of criticism of Noodlers, here at FPN and elsewhere, from "hmm, it may have led to clogging problems" to "beware, it will wreck your pens". It is in no way immune from the kind of criticism leveled at the other brand names you mention - and those other brands have their defenders as well. I don't see any "defending of the faith" here, just posters sharing their personal experiences and adding data points to show that your mileage may vary.

 

[Titivillus]

Just to offer another observation - I've seen plenty of criticism of Noodlers, here at FPN and elsewhere, from "hmm, it may have led to clogging problems" to "beware, it will wreck your pens". It is in no way immune from the kind of criticism leveled at the other brand names you mention - and those other brands have their defenders as well. I don't see any "defending of the faith" here, just posters sharing their personal experiences and adding data points to show that your mileage may vary.

 

I'll have to go back and check but I think there's a few of the why are you always beating up on Noodler's posts out there.

 

In which I replied why are people always having problems with Noodler's that they post about

 

Kurt

[Rapt]

Seems to me that based on the content of the response the respondent actually knows very little about Noodler's and is assuming because its waterproof once dry (on cellulose) that its like India ink in that its not actually water based.

 

Whereas Noodler's is in fact water based and can be dried and reconstituted in a non-absorbent container without any problems. Nathan at Noodlers specifically says this in his writing about the inks.

 

Clearly it is water soluble, the presence of sediment means nothing with regards to the statement of solubility. Don't believe me? Take a glasss of water, add a quarter teaspoon of salt (or sugar) stir... Does it dissolve? Now add 5 tablespoons, does it dissolve? Add 5 more, how about now?...

 

Yes sooner or later you'll add more than can be dissolved, that doesn't mean the substance is insoluble.

 

I would say its a matter of Chartpak not knowing and not really being bothered to know about the ink so they are covering their butts by saying not to use it. Much easier, faster, cheaper, etc., than actually doing some research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[andyk]

Must admit I have only tried one Noodler's ink Eternal Black and to be honest have been disappointed, it writes well in the pens I have used it in avoided using anything transparent (although works well in a Senator Pelikan clone, no obvious staining yet) colour is great, really dense, looks great.

 

Main reason I don't use it more is that it seems to take forever to dry, even when you think it's dry (10 minutes later or after blotting well) it will still smear , so not really ideal. I did think about using it in a couple of Pelikans, but don't want to take the chance especially as it has drying issues.

 

I have now gone back to my Pelikan Brilliant Black as my main black ink, although I am about to try Diamine Quartz Black and Jet Black which arrived a week or two ago (to date nothing but good luck with other Diamine inks, Indigo is one of my favourites).

 

Andy

[Deirdre]

Honestly? I bought a pen.

 

You know, something to write with.

 

I happen to have a trés spendy Pelikan.

 

I intend to put ink in it (though I haven't yet).

 

That ink will likely be Noodler's.

 

If it requires repair a tidge more frequently? My bad.

 

That doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy using my favorite ink in a pen I own.

 

I'm not a conservationist. I'm a writer.

[dumdummuoi]

These are Chartpak recommendations, however, not void-my-warranty-written-in-stone-don't-do-it! If they void a warranty, then it needs to have been clearly stated that the use of Noodler's or any other permanent ink will void said warranty, and not have a round-the-bush chase.

 

Actually, I talked to Abigail a few days prior and she did say that using any ink other than those recommended voids the warranty. I'm not sure if it's specifically stated in the booklet, nor do I plan to stop using Noodler's (I'll just be more careful about cleaning the pen out more often than usual), but just FYI.

 

[Viseguy]

Just an observation - Noodlers Ink seems to have gone from a "writing fluid" to a religion in a very few years. I too tried the bullet-proof black when it first arrived, and it led to major surgery on a couple of Parker 51 vacs. Since then I've used Legal Lapis in a Bexley with no ill effects, except I don't like the color. But my point is, I have never seen such strong defensive reactions to ink criticism before. If you whine about PR ink, you will have company. Complain about Quink, MB or another brand and people jump on the band wagon, but pointing out that Noodler's may be a difficult product and the villagers light their torches and head for the castle. Frankly, even though I actually write extensively with all my pens, I define myself as a pen collector, not an ink collector, and certainly not a "defender of the faith"!

 

Just to offer another observation - I've seen plenty of criticism of Noodlers, here at FPN and elsewhere, from "hmm, it may have led to clogging problems" to "beware, it will wreck your pens". It is in no way immune from the kind of criticism leveled at the other brand names you mention - and those other brands have their defenders as well. I don't see any "defending of the faith" here, just posters sharing their personal experiences and adding data points to show that your mileage may vary.

Well said.