Fountainbel OS "PF Tribute" plunger fill fountain pen

[Flere-Imsaho]

Here is the picture of the Tribute pen uncapped.

 

Nice work, Francis.

 

 

[fountainbel]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your input & glad to hear you like the pen.

Answering your questions I would say that a sterling clip & cap band are feasible, but I expect they will increase the cost of the pen.

Today I've also added a stainless ring between the barrel & the blind cap, having an equal with as the clip band.

In my opinion its make the pen look more balanced, but this is a question of taste.

The clutch ring is made from a very wear resistant "high tech" plastic, being "Ketron Peek". Making the ring from stainless steel is possible but risky because friction between "stainless steel on stainless steel" will create high risks for gripping & fretting between the axial contact surfaces.

It looks there is no consensus on the wide cap band, but given some mechanical design aspects I can only make it a 2-3mm smaller as on the picture.

I'm evaluating the alternative using a four leads thread fixation between barrel & cap. Doing so I can make the ring much smaller;

Drawback is that I will need to make a metal nut and also a male threaded part , since I expect the mating HR threads will wear rather fast.

And on the other side: the double bajonet clutch quarter turn really works like a dream !

Francis

 

 

 

Do you think all th e metal trims (clip, cap band, any additional bands you should decide on) could be made from sterling silver? But I guess stainless steel would work as well. I just don't like the idea of mixing trim material on one pen...

 

If I recall correctly from the demonstrator I was allowed to hold on the Cologne pen show I remember the "double bajonet" part of the pen (not the cap) being made of some sort of plastic ?! Do you think you could match this part being made from the same material as the metal trim wor

 

Also I like the large cap band; I would not shorten it too much. Did you think about adding some sort ov engravings (like on the wide cap band Sheaffer's) ?

engravings are surely possible but

 

This is interesting to see how such a pen develops and it is great to have the feeling actually working on its final design here on the fountainpennetworl forum :-)

 

I'm curious to learn about any changes you think of next

 

 

Cheers

 

Michael

Edited March 16, 2008 by fountainbel

[Epictete92]

Francis,

 

I was really happy to meet you in Germany and to feel and touch this brillant pen.

 

I really prefer in terms of look this new version for the use of hard rubber.

Not many inputs because most of the thing has been said before, but, as a potentiel customer, i would like to find this model with other "natural" elements ( not a 100% natural pen of course ) but the use of real celluloid ( not precious resin ), silver or gold trim, wood,could be another idea.

 

Even if it would be complicated to and to sell, but to offer limited choices such as:barrel ( HR,celluloid,resin,wood ),trim ( large/small ring,sterling,silver,gold ),and finally the moste easier part Nib ( large,medium,fine,...stub... )

 

I wish you a long and joyfull road with your pens.

 

Best regards

Jean Elie

[Michael R.]

Today I've also added a stainless ring between the barrel & the blind cap, having an equal with as the clip band.

In my opinion its make the pen look more balanced, but this is a question of taste.

 

I think this is a great idea! Can you post some pictures of this?

 

The clutch ring is made from a very wear resistant "high tech" plastic, being "Ketron Peek". Making the ring from stainless steel is possible but risky because friction between "stainless steel on stainless steel" will create high risks for gripping & fretting between the axial contact surfaces.

 

And on the other side: the double bajonet clutch quarter turn really works like a dream !

 

I'm evaluating the alternative using a four leads thread fixation between barrel & cap. Doing so I can make the ring much smaller;

Drawback is that I will need to make a metal nut and also a male threaded part , since I expect the mating HR threads will wear rather fast.

 

While the double bajonet definitely is much more clever (and I can assure that it is fun to use!) thread fixation made from stainless steel might have it's visual apeals as well!

 

 

It looks there is no consensus on the wide cap band, but given some mechanical design aspects I can only make it a 2-3mm smaller as on the picture.

 

If the length of the clip stays the same the cap band should not get less wide; it might look strange if the clip only barely touches the cap band. Did you try a version with the clip ending exactly in the middle of the cap band?

 

Also will you offer different clip versions which easily can be exchanged or even allow the use without a clip? E.g by adding just a plain ring witout clip?

 

I love pens with easily interchageable parts like blind caps and cap tops (e.g. exchanging flat top with streamlined tops).

 

Also you should start thinking about a nice "brand icon" which could be stamped/engraved onto the pens barrel or cap band!

 

 

Michael

 

 

[Michael R.]

...but the use of real celluloid ( not precious resin )

 

...sterling silver

 

Yes, celluloid would be great but I think the hard rubber is a good start. Also the celluloid should be unique (not a color/pattern everybody else uses) and I can imagine this will be tough to find.

 

I'm saying this even celluloid is my favorite choice together with sterling silver :-)

 

Also I can imagine the pen looking great with a matte, brushed stainless steel trim.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

 

[artaddict]

Love the HR version, and also like what Griz did to the cap band!

[goodyear]

I am falling in love with both versions

 

I like the big cap band.

 

Any plans to make these available to buyers?

[Michael R.]

Some updates Francis asked me to post:

 

http://freenet-homepage.de/pensninks/Tribute1.jpg

 

update 1: added metal ring between filler and barrel for better "visual balance"

 

 

http://freenet-homepage.de/pensninks/Tribute2.jpg

 

update 2: the flattop version really looks great!

 

 

http://freenet-homepage.de/pensninks/Tribute3.jpg

 

....

 

 

http://freenet-homepage.de/pensninks/Tribute4.jpg

 

update 3: two thin steel rings framing the "double bajonet"; this way the it becomes a nice design element rather than just something of "practical use" I think.

 

 

This is just amazing how Francis comes up with those new parts in no time! ...and it gets better every time...

 

Michael

[Rapt]

That flat-top makes me feel all funny inside....

 

In a good way!

 

Personally not sure about framing the bayonet ring... I'd be tempted to make the bayonet in stainless and then it would be its own trim too.

 

 

 

 

[Michael R.]

Personally not sure about framing the bayonet ring... I'd be tempted to make the bayonet in stainless and then it would be its own trim too.

 

 

That was my first suggestion as well :-) but it seems that it won't work in stainless steel if I understood Francis correctly.

 

I never liked the white bajonet by itself but the framing makes it stand out in a nice "design"ish way; it now looks very high quality - almost like a brand specific "trademark" like Sheaffer's white dot or Rotring's "redband".

 

Michael

Edited March 19, 2008 by Michael R.

[fountainbel]

Michael, thanks a lot for putting my pictures on the board!

Unfortunately I'm rather clumsy with computer stuff & did not succeed myself.

As what concerns Michael's & Rapt's idea for making the clutch ring from stainless steel,I initially did so, but came back on it for technical reasons

The clutch ring is made from a very wear resistant (grey colored ) "high tech" plastic, being "Ketron Peek".

Making the ring from stainless steel has proven sensible for gripping & fretting between the (similar material) axial contact surfaces.

When closing the cap with one quarter turn, the section front backs-up against a rubber sealing ring, creating a moderate axial sealing & locking pretension between the clutch ring & the internal collar in the cap ring.

Making both elements in stainless steel is therefore not recommended.

Alternatively I could make the cap ring from chromium plated brass, then the clutch ring could be stainless steel.

 

Big disappointment today, I was told by a visiting Belgian collector that the system with the 2 separated ink chambers already exists & is used by Visconti....

I've just checked the site & although their patented system is not fully identical,it looks quiet similar.

I was not aware off this, I was simply inspired by the shut-off valve Onoto already used in the thirties & optimized this idea.

In fact I was happily surprised when seeing that one obtains 2 ink chambers with this approach.

Unfortunately it looks that I was not the first one who discovered this.

While Visconti uses the piston seal both for pulling the ink up & as as shut-off valve, I use a separate sealing element or both functions.

It looks that I could have a patent infringement problem when selling the Tribute......, see below

http://www.visconti.it/double.htm

 

Disappointing, but this is live.

At least it was fun to design & make my own plunger filler!

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions & positive comments, it surely encouraged me to make the various versions.

Regards, Francis

 

 

 

Personally not sure about framing the bayonet ring... I'd be tempted to make the bayonet in stainless and then it would be its own trim too.

 

 

That was my first suggestion as well :-) but it seems that it won't work in stainless steel if I understood Francis correctly.

 

I never liked the white bajonet by itself but the framing makes it stand out in a nice "design"ish way; it now looks very high quality - almost like a brand specific "trademark" like Sheaffer's white dot or Rotring's "redband".

 

Michael

Edited March 19, 2008 by fountainbel

[Dr.Grace]

I'm curious: how does this compare with the system in the Pilot Custom 823? There's a similar vacuum-fill piston and shutoff valve. Have they somehow gotten around the Visconti patent?

[richardandtracy]

...Big disappointment today, I was told by a visiting Belgian collector that the system with the 2 separated ink chambers already exists & is used by Visconti....

I've just checked the site & although their patented system is not fully identical,it looks quiet similar.

I was not aware off this, I was simply inspired by the shut-off valve Onoto already used in the thirties & optimized this idea.

...It looks that I could have a patent infringement problem when selling the Tribute......,

There is a possible way out of the problem.

1) Talk to the revitalised Onoto company, see if they still hold the patent for their idea from the 1930's. If yes, get into license talks with them. If the patent has expired, verify that the Visconti Patent is post the Onoto one. If it's the case, 'Prior Art' will supercede the Visconti Patent, and it'll be Visconti's problem not yours (may be expensive for you if they try to persue it though).

2) If you can't get yours based on the Onoto Patent (or there is no Onoto Patent - which would surprise me!), then you may have to talk to Visconti & see if you can license the idea for limited numbers.

 

This may be a way forward.. If so, I hope it works.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

 

[goodyear]

Can the patent cover something as generic as two ink chambers?

 

But I am not any breed of lawyer, never mind a patent lawyer.

 

Looking at the moste recent photos, I wonder would a bigger nib look more balanced with the size of the pen?

[Dr.Grace]

Maybe Visconti wouldn't care so much about an individual producing a few handmade pens! They have bigger fish to fry.

 

On the other hand, it was shocking to read about Pelikan seizing pens in Germany that had a custom binde. What were they thinking?

[Rapt]

Patents CAN cover just about anything... However the standard patent life is less than 20 years... Some may extend to 25, once its expired its no longer "protected" and anyone can use it.

 

(Not to be confused with trademarks with may be renewed indefinitely, or copyrights which have differernt rules.).

 

Just because someone else makes something similar is no reason to give up without further investigation.

[fountainbel]

Hi Rapt,

I think your right on this one, I'll try to find out how far the patent goes.

As I understand there would be more pen brands which are using the "dual reservoir" system, which is in fact the heart of the Visconti patent;

It would be very helpful to know which other brands are using this feature equally.

Anyone who can specify other pen brands using the "dual reservoir system?

Thanks in advance!

Francis

 

 

Just because someone else makes something similar is no reason to give up without further investigation.

 

[fountainbel]

Hi Dr.Grace,

Thanks for your input.

I've searched for patents on the system used in the Pilot Custom 823, but was unfortunately not able to find anything.

Is Pilot equally using a "dual reservoir" system?

Any idea were I can find a description or a section drawing showing the system?

Thanks & regards, Francis

 

I'm curious: how does this compare with the system in the Pilot Custom 823? There's a similar vacuum-fill piston and shutoff valve. Have they somehow gotten around the Visconti patent?

 

[Shabubu]

Pilot uses a straight forward vacuum filler with an ink shutoff valve, as in the Onoto. The patent on this type of filler will be well expired, and so I wouldn't be concerned about using it. The Visconti double resevoir system, AFAIK is still covered by patent and as they are so proud of it I would not try using it. The only thing about the double resevoir system is that it tends to be more an annoyance than a usefull feature. The normal ink shutoff valve is adequate for air travel, and the resevoir on my wall street is too small for the hose that is the Binder Itallifine attached to it. Using the "straight forward" vacuum filler should simplify manufacture, increase the ink capacity and improve your nights sleep

 

If you did want to persist with the "double resevoir" then there are a few ways to do it, firstly never reference it in a description, Visconti use the design as a selling point and would be upset if you did the same. Secondly if the reserve resevoir is part of the screw in assembly as opposed to a distinct chamber then you would be ok. I can't see enough of your designs to see if this is the case, but in the visconti the plunger stops a significant distance from the feed, and as such the first of the two resevoirs is a discrete manufactured unit. If in your pen this area was left for "manufacturing reasons" rather than as a feature you should be able to escape any patent problems.

 

I would also like to add my name to the list for one of these, though cannot decide which material would be best (though would love to see a 'sailor king of pen' version, no trim and black hard rubber).

Edited March 22, 2008 by Shabubu

[drgonzo2]

Francis,

 

Would it be possible to thin down the cap ring so that you could extend the cap over the ring? I would think that if this were possible, you could make the ring as narrow/wide as you like.

 

Cheers... G

 

P.S. - I have a quick & dirty sketch of this idea, but no idea how to get said sketch to you other than email. pm me with your email addy & I'll send it to you.

Edited March 22, 2008 by drgonzo2