Pelikan M205 - ink residue behind piston

[katherine]

Hi,

 

This is my first post to the FPN. I hope it doesn't go as woefully badly as my experiences with the pen I'm writing about.

 

I wanted something to copy-edit in red at work, where I'm often handed printouts to make technical corrections as appropriate. Since my business partner has ADHD, he tends to miss most of my suggestions unless they stand out. So I thought red ink might go down well, as it's pretty difficult to miss. And while I'm at it, I thought, as red is there to be seen, I may as well find a suitable demonstrator to put it in.

 

Since I wanted to show off the ink, hiding away in a little cartridge (converter or otherwise) seemed silly, so I read around on what pen might be a little bolder in showing-off the ink, which is how I found this network. I came across a few things, and settled on a Pelikan M205, because reviews seemed to say it wrote well, and it certainly looks the part.

 

So, it arrived, I inked it with Pelikan's Brilliant Red:

 

 

Lovely. Except it skipped when writing, and I was disappointed that the ink was more orange than red. Those, however, are problems for another discussion.

 

Three months later, here's my problem:

 

 

Help! The barrel has lost its grease, which I assume is what allowed the ink to stain: fine, I can deal with that somehow. I'll re-grease it after finding a way to remove the stain, I assume. The piston is stiff for the same reason. The powdery reside from the ink is more worrying.

 

However, my main concern is that ring of ink behind the piston. I have no idea how to remove it: it managed to get there by pulling back the stained-on residue formed inside the barrel.

 

I'm considering taking out the piston mechanism; as far as I can see, it snaps into place just under the filler knob. So I think I could shim down something inside there, pop that little latch, and withdraw the piston screw out the back a little way. Is this sane?

 

Thank you,

 

Kate

Edited January 27, 2008 by katherine

[framebaer]

Hi,

 

Welcome to FPN. My random suggestions would be:

 

Soak the barrel in a 10-20% water / ammonia solution and even use a Q-tip to rub around the inside of the barrel. This should help remove some of the staining in front of the piston. Rinse in pure water to remove the ammonia residue.

 

Pure silicone grease can be put with a toothpick on the barrel -- use sparingly! This should help the piston to move more smoothly.

 

As for the stain behind the piston. There is a way to remove the piston but I have never done it and you should be sure you know how before attempting.

Edited January 27, 2008 by framebaer

[dennisraines]

I have the EXACT (almost) same problem, only with blue ink.

 

Were you able to resolve it? It's driving me batty. :blink:

[succubus]

Thanks for mentioning this. I have one on order, so I'll know what to expect.

[kadymae]

How did you get the nib off the pen?!

 

Because I have a similar problem with my M205 and have tried and tried and tried to get nib to unscrew from the barrel and that damn thing won't budge.

[jmkeuning]

^kady: the nib unscrews. If it is stuck, do not force it. Maybe a soak in some warm water (140 degrees F, or less)

 

Regarding the original problem: I have two M205s and use Lamy Blue in them. This ink does not stain the plastic. There are inks that will stain, such as many brands of red, which tend to be highly saturated.

 

The OP does not really have "residue" behind the piston. The "staining" is only up to the point to where the piston fully retracts. As I said, my M205 does not look like this.

 

Also, the OP seems to have never returned, but that's not ink in the full pen. Right? That a watery mix.

[Ernst Bitterman]

For red, try Sheaffer's Skrip. It's a good 'un. Reds are inherently staining inks-- the ammonia solution may serve, but it might be permanent.

 

I'm on the edge of suggesting something based on taking apart other piston pens, but as I've never worked on a Pelikan, I'm going to first ask for as nicely-detailed a shot of the mechanism as of the piston in your second shot. I think I know how to free it, but I want a good look at it before suggesting anything... except don't go poking around with anything. The most likely result is unhappy scratches and nothing done about the pre-existing problem.

[djmaher]

So, I'm confused as well..

 

I'm getting a used M200, blue translucent, and might need to clean it when I get it, possibly for the same reasons the M205 needed attention. I understand that ink droplets accumulate in the cap, but I'm not sure if thats normal for this pen, or if something else is up....

 

But in my post below, I was discouraged to "disassemble" anything:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...mp;#entry554083

 

So, maybe my original question was more like,

 

What can you do/should you not do, maintanience-wise/to/for a "dirty" M200/M205, in these circumstances??

 

I'm obviously new to FPs, but I thought Id give the through cleaning/lubeing/adjusting thing a go, as long as I dont screw my pen up.....

 

D

 

 

 

[steersbylitning]

What a timely post -- I'm cleaning my own M205 today, and have that same issue with ink behind the piston. So I'll be interested to see what solution (other than soaking and soaking and soaking) might help.

 

Could I safely put the pen barrel (with the piston) inside an ultrasonic cleaner? I have one available, but have never tried it before.

 

Debbie

 

 

 

[Rick Propas]

Let me see if I can clear this up. Piston seals are not perfect. In part that's why they have the double ridge, sort of like piston rings in an internal combustion motor. Some fluid is going to seep and there's not much you can do about it. In the 800s it's easy enough to remove the piston assembly, which is reverse threaded, and clean the barrel. It is less easy to do so in the 150-600 series pens where the filler is pressed and too many removals will wreck the fit.

 

There are, of course, more and less staining inks and any ink with red in it (including brown and purple) is going to stain.

 

Finally, for barrel cleaning, even if you do not pull the filler, try using a test tube brush with a bit of dishwashing liquid or if you can't get a test tube brush easily use a nipple brush, available in most grocery stores.

 

My experience with ultras is that they are less effective for this than is a brush.

 

Hope this helps.

[steersbylitning]

Thanks, Rick! Will give it a try when I put my hands on an appropriate brush.

 

Debbie

 

Let me see if I can clear this up. Piston seals are not perfect. In part that's why they have the double ridge, sort of like piston rings in an internal combustion motor. Some fluid is going to seep and there's not much you can do about it. In the 800s it's easy enough to remove the piston assembly, which is reverse threaded, and clean the barrel. It is less easy to do so in the 150-600 series pens where the filler is pressed and too many removals will wreck the fit.

 

There are, of course, more and less staining inks and any ink with red in it (including brown and purple) is going to stain.

 

Finally, for barrel cleaning, even if you do not pull the filler, try using a test tube brush with a bit of dishwashing liquid or if you can't get a test tube brush easily use a nipple brush, available in most grocery stores.

 

My experience with ultras is that they are less effective for this than is a brush.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[djmaher]

Anywhere here document how to do said maintainence?? Photos would be excellent. I just got my pen, in pretty good shape, but still am curious about cleaning and lubricating the piston, etc. Sorry, Im really new at this, and I dont want to goof it up if at all possible.

 

Thanks for any help and photos you can give!!

 

D

[katherine]

How did you get the nib off the pen?!

 

Because I have a similar problem with my M205 and have tried and tried and tried to get nib to unscrew from the barrel and that damn thing won't budge.

 

Hi!

 

I'm terribly sorry, I completely forgot to follow up this thread. I'll post replies separately, rather than lumping them all together.

 

Kady: The nib simply unscrews anticlockwise. Use your fingers, not a tool (skin is a wonderful material; it has just the right yield), and don't be scared. I would imagine the plastic would crack if you're brutal, so soaking it seems sensible, if it's stuck.

 

I tried a gold nib; it was smoother. My silver nib still skips. When I'm feeling brave, I might try grinding it. I expect it will go horribly wrong. Currently I can't write with it, as it is bad at starting, and skips too much. Incidentally, the pen shop I took it to (a Pelikan supplier), to ask for advice face-to-face, they didn't believe this was a real Pelikan pen! I asked if I could try a gold nib, and they told me they didn't have any which would fit... I pointed to the M200s under their counter, and said it's the same as those, and they said it's not... baffled, I asked if I may try regardless? And of course, it is, and it fitted perfectly...

 

Kate

[katherine]

Thanks for mentioning this. I have one on order, so I'll know what to expect.

 

Succubus: My advice, for what it's worth, would be to find an ink which does not leave residue (perhaps test this somehow), and be sure this is the one and only colour you'll ever want to use in the pen. Flush it out regularly, and grease the chamber regularly.

 

The grease stops the ink (being water-based) from sticking to the barrel. You'll notice the first time you ink it, the ink forms a meniscus which keeps well away from the walls; gradually it begins to adhere to them, after a week or so.

 

In other words, this will be awfully high-maintenance if you want to use it for daily work, as I did.

 

Kate

[katherine]

^kady: the nib unscrews. If it is stuck, do not force it. Maybe a soak in some warm water (140 degrees F, or less)

 

Regarding the original problem: I have two M205s and use Lamy Blue in them. This ink does not stain the plastic. There are inks that will stain, such as many brands of red, which tend to be highly saturated.

 

The OP does not really have "residue" behind the piston. The "staining" is only up to the point to where the piston fully retracts. As I said, my M205 does not look like this.

 

Also, the OP seems to have never returned, but that's not ink in the full pen. Right? That a watery mix.

 

Jmkeuning: That is Pelikan's "brilliant red" as-is. It is not watered down or mixed with anything. The photo's colour looks true, at least on my monitor.

 

As I said in my original post, Pelikan's "brilliant red" is weak and orange. Under chromatography it separated out clearly into a yellow component.

 

I have a small list of "real" red inks which I'd like to try, when I can afford to, mostly based from samples people have kindly posted here. A good red is important to me, particularly for correcting things at work.

 

The residue behind the piston - the, er, "redring" - was formed by the piston moving over the ink stuck to the walls of the chamber, and then pushing that backwards as the piston moved back.

 

Kate

Edited October 6, 2008 by katherine

[katherine]

For red, try Sheaffer's Skrip. It's a good 'un. Reds are inherently staining inks-- the ammonia solution may serve, but it might be permanent.

 

I'm on the edge of suggesting something based on taking apart other piston pens, but as I've never worked on a Pelikan, I'm going to first ask for as nicely-detailed a shot of the mechanism as of the piston in your second shot. I think I know how to free it, but I want a good look at it before suggesting anything... except don't go poking around with anything. The most likely result is unhappy scratches and nothing done about the pre-existing problem.

 

Ernst: The mechanism is pushed in, and pops past a ledge moulded into the case. It does not look intended to be removed.

 

I don't want to pull out the entire piston assembly (I guess I could clamp it in a vice for that, and gradually screw the other end further away until that ledge were popped past), but I don't have the tools. I'll try that when I feel I have nothing left to lose, and don't mind facing the consequences if it ruins the whole thing.

 

It seems that doing so would also put a lot of stress on the threads of the knob, but I don't see a way to avoid that. I'll post detailed photos of that, if you're interested.

 

If I do that, certainly I shall document the process. I didn't find any existing resources, when I looked. Eventually I suspect I'll reach the point where I don't mind sacrificing my pen in the name of science...

 

djmaher: The cap disassembles with no problem; I have taken mine apart to clean - the black cap at the end simply unscrews. You'll need to grip the inner sleeve inside; i found stuffing it with tissue held it plenty so that I could screw it back together again.

 

Kate

[katherine]

I have the EXACT (almost) same problem, only with blue ink.

 

Were you able to resolve it? It's driving me batty. :blink:

 

Dennis: No, I wasn't able to resolve it. I'm currently not using the pen, but mostly because of the nib being poor.

 

The ink ring in the barrel behind the piston is as bad as ever. I'd post a photo, but it looks exactly the same as above. There is still an awful lot of residue in all the various nooks and crannies, despite cleaning as best I can with various small brushes and such.

 

I have soaked it for days in ammonia, but that just serves to soften up things in-place; it doesn't lift them away, when they're deposited in thin layers like this. For something like a clogged feed, though, it'd be wonderful.

 

Kate

[katherine]

Hi,

 

Welcome to FPN. My random suggestions would be:

 

Soak the barrel in a 10-20% water / ammonia solution and even use a Q-tip to rub around the inside of the barrel. This should help remove some of the staining in front of the piston. Rinse in pure water to remove the ammonia residue.

 

Pure silicone grease can be put with a toothpick on the barrel -- use sparingly! This should help the piston to move more smoothly.

 

As for the stain behind the piston. There is a way to remove the piston but I have never done it and you should be sure you know how before attempting.

 

Framebaer: Thank you for your suggestions; I followed them:

 

I soaked in water and ammonia, and got a nose-full of the stuff several times. That helped loosen up some of the residue, and it was soft enough to scrape out with a Q-tip, but I couldn't get all of it out.

 

I got some silicon grease - it's really lovely stuff! I find I keep opening the tube just to look at it... I find it worryingly alluring... but after as much cleaning as I could manage, greasing the inside of the chamber made the piston run beautifully smooth, and I have no complaint there.

 

Kate

 

[succubus]

Thanks for the advice - long story short - the place from which I ordered, didn't actually have any in stock, so I never got one. But I'm sure the information will help others.

[katherine]

Well, in the name of science, I've just taken apart my pen. (Actually, this is pseudoscience; I have no hypothesis, and no control data...)

 

I am so going to regret this.

 

On removing the piston: I tried a few various approaches, mostly revolving around pulling the knob such that the knob's threads pulled on the piston assembly, in order to get the piston assembly's lip past the case's lip holding it in place. None of that worked.

 

Then I realised that the knob has a few threads spare, and so I spent a while gently but firmly simply screwing in the knob further than it's supposed to be screwed in. This causes the knob's base to push against the pen body, which exerts an even force around the entire knob, achieving the same effect as pulling on the knob when it's unscrewed. However, move threads are engaged, and so I figured doing it this way was less likely to strip the threads by force.

 

Eventually, with a pleasant little "pop", the lip gave and the piston came out. The threads all seem fine.

 

Here's a photo of the parts; nothing surprising here. I shall attempt to diagram a cross-section of how the lip looks from the inside, for reference for anybody in the future.

 

Kate