Nibs discussion

[Centurion]

Just the other day I was in Bob Slate Stationer where I go and buy my Clairefontaine Triomphe paper (good quality low price although maybe not as fancy as G. Lalo), anyway . . . I saw a Pelikano Junior FP with a steel nib and tried out (no ink) and noticed it had a springyness or a flex to it, so steel doesn't have to mean like a nail. And there are gold nibs which are nail like. Years ago I dipped an Edson and remember it being very smooth but nail like.

 

I read on Pentrace a while back that from an engineering point of view a 14kt nib is the best for flex. I guess that makes sense. It's got gold content so it's soft, but not too much gold so it would flex back fast. I am thinking if too much gold then too soft and won't flex back to original shape fast enough.

 

But that Pelikano was able to spring or flex, so design must definitely play a role. Most gold nibs are 18kt, perhaps out of convention and not because of scientific reasoning? Sailor makes nibs at 21kt.

 

So I am confused, what role, if any, does the material of the nib play in its springyness? or in its smoothness? Is a gold nib just jewlry, bragging rights to a pretty nib??

[Stylo]

Some members here can contribute a lot on this subject, but I can at least say that "springiness" for a nib is a function of material, thickness, and shape. If one material is springier than another, but if the you a make a very thick nib out of it, it won't be springy at all.

[Michael Wright]

As I remember Antonios' splendid study of materials for nibs, some sorts of 14k gold can have superior properties for flex to the best steels, but there is considerable overlap. The classic flexing dip pen nibs are steel, so certainly steel makes good flex nibs (as it did in the MB and Pelikan nibs made in WW II, though I haven't experienced that myself). IIRC, the critical property is the ability of the material to bend and then spring back to its original shape -- the amount of deformation it can stand before getting permanently bent ("sprung" is the term for this, in nibs).

 

As for the fineness of the gold: as everyone points out, in the great days of nib making (1900s to the 1950s), everyone used 14kt, though they had individual alloys. We are told that 18kt nibs are the result of French legislation, that requires a minimum of 75% gold content before anything can be sold as "gold." 21kt seems to be just a step in a karat race, like the old horsepower race.

 

Notwithstanding all this, I used to think that I could feel the difference between a good steel nib and a good gold nib. I thought that there might be some subtle property whereby the vibrations from the movement of the tip over the paper were better damped by a gold alloy than by steel. I then discovered that a Cross Townsend that I had been using with real pleasure had a gold-plated steel nib, rather than gold. While my idea is not impossible, I think I was a victim of the same placebo effect that makes audiophiles pay silly money for power cords.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

ps you could have a look at The Anatomy of a Nib at http://www.nibs.com

[KCkc]

As I remember Antonios' splendid study of materials for nibs, some sorts of 14k gold can have superior properties for flex to the best steels, but there is considerable overlap.

This is the link to his splendid article on PT:

http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/Data_Retur...icle.asp?id=418

Edited November 8, 2005 by KCkc

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Nib shape has a lot to do with the way a nib responds. So does the thickness of the metal. There is a fountain pen called the Pelikan Steno. It has nice flexible steel nib. The alloy of 14K nibs detrermines its springiness. The more gold there is in a nib, the more spongy it feels.

 

Dillon

[davyr]

i was given a levenger titan as a freebie from a gb deal. the nib is titanium, and is one of my more flexy nibs (i only have modern pens at this point, hopefully this will change soon). looking at the nib, it's quite thin, which probably has more to do with flexiness than the material itself. the tone of the titanium has a modern look - a nice change from the usual

Edited November 8, 2005 by davyr

[southpaw]

i was given a levenger titan as a freebie from a gb deal. the nib is titanium, and is one of my more flexy nibs (i only have modern pens at this point, hopefully this will change soon). looking at the nib, it's quite thin, which probably has more to do with flexiness than the material itself. the tone of the titanium has a modern look - a nice change from the usual

Could you describe your experience with the Ti nib? Skipping problems? TIA.

[TMann]

As I recall from my cycling days, titanium has a much great ability to flex without deforming than steel. Thus, it would appear that titanium would have some potential as a useful material for making flexible fountain pen nibs. As I recall, though, titanium is a bit of a pain to work with, so it may not be worth the hassle for most nib manufacturers.

 

TMann

[Richard]

As I recall from my cycling days, titanium has a much great ability to flex without deforming than steel. Thus, it would appear that titanium would have some potential as a useful material for making flexible fountain pen nibs. As I recall, though, titanium is a bit of a pain to work with, so it may not be worth the hassle for most nib manufacturers.

 

TMann

Titanium is an element. Steel isn't. To put things on an equal plane, we need to recognize this difference and work with it. Let us, then, discuss titanium and iron.

 

Iron, when alloyed with metals such as chromium and nickel and given an admixture of carbon, becomes stainless steel, the material of which steel nibs are made. There are many stainless steels, each having its own properties. Some are designed to be springy and are used to make springs and flexible nibs. But others are not flexible, and virtually all modern steel nibs are made of relatively inflexible steels -- usually, they're pretty soft, and they're stiff only because these nibs are relatively thick.

 

Titanium must also be alloyed to be useful for most things. And, like steels, there are many titanium alloys with differing properties. As it happens, the alloys hitherto chosen for titanium nibs have been relatively soft. The nibs made of these alloys have a little springiness, but they are most definitely not flex nibs. I have straightened enough of them, after their owners had sprung them, to be utterly certain of this.

[davyr]

Titanium must also be alloyed to be useful for most things. And, like steels, there are many titanium alloys with differing properties. As it happens, the alloys hitherto chosen for titanium nibs have been relatively soft. The nibs made of these alloys have a little springiness, but they are most definitely not flex nibs. I have straightened enough of them, after their owners had sprung them, to be utterly certain of this. smile.gif

of course you're right, i should have used the term springy. i've never actually handled a vintage true flex nib.

 

Could you describe your experience with the Ti nib? Skipping problems? TIA.

hey southpaw, that levenger nib pretty much doesn't skip, although it sometimes does not write on the first stroke. it's a medium point, and lays down a pretty wet line. it's about average in terms of smoothness amongst my small pile of pens (all modern). price/performance ratio is off the chart (it was free) maybe i'll do a mini review on it...

 

 

As I recall, though, titanium is a bit of a pain to work with, so it may not be worth the hassle for most nib manufacturers.

in the watch world, titanium is notoriously difficult to work/machine. it was first widely marketed by iwc (international watch company). although stronger and lighter than steel, some ti alloys can scratch quite easily. what's nice about ti is that it's highly resistant to corrosion and also has very low thermal conductivity (put on a titanium watch on a cold winter day and it doesn't initially feel as shockingly cold as a ss or gold watch).