wouldnt it be nice if pen makers would offer flex nibs ?

[goodguy]

Yesterday I started a thread about "What pen would you like to be made again ?" and then I was thinking wouldnt it be nice if pen makers today would offer in their nib options flex and semi flex nibs.

I dont understand why some pen makers will not offer these nibs.Companies like Omas and Pelikan and few more that make pens for real pen users should give us this option.

I think that would increas their pen sales and make us fountain pen fans very happy.

After all how much more complecated is it for a pen maker to make a flexible or semi flexible nib ?

[Phthalo]

The problem is that people are not accustomed to flexible nibs, especially the heavy-handed ballpoint users. A flexible nib would last them maybe five minutes, and then the unhappy customer would be on the phone or in the store telling some poor clerk all about how their nib "just broke", no doubt due to "poor workmanship" or some other silly reason.

 

Of course, we all know that the broken nib would be entirely the customer's fault.

 

However, the manufacturer would have no recourse - how can they tell a customer how much pressure is too much? They would be inundated with broken nibs and have to constantly replace them.

[hari317]

... I was thinking wouldnt it be nice if pen makers today would offer in their nib options flex and semi flex nibs.

I too would prefer if the super flex or semi flex option were still available as an "off the shelf" choice. But some limited modern options in the form of the Pilot FA nib exist.

 

After all how much more complecated is it for a pen maker to make a flexible or semi flexible nib ?

 

Guessing that flex nibs may require a different tip grind shape and tempering for flex. Expecting definitive inputs from the nib experts...

 

[greencobra]

I think goodguy is on to something here. I don't know about increasing a manufacturers sales, but I sure would like the option of being able to order one.

[FrankB]

I think Phthalo's perspective is very accurate. It has become a norm for people to hold a pen in a death grip and to apply extreme pressure because of ball points. The amount of nib breakage would be awful. Any FP manufacturer would probably have to include a warning with flex nibs that the nib is soft and easily sprung or broken, and no doubt set a repair policy that would require the customer to pay. A flex nib pen would probably even have to contain holding instructions. Consider that many of the contributors right here at FPN are unsure how to use flex nibs and threads to that effect pop up occasionally.

 

I have also understood that the "formula" for making flex nibs has been lost. Someone who knows better will have to correct me, but I have heard that pen manufacturers honestly cannot make flex nibs as they did in the early part of the 20th Century. I recall reading a couple of articles dealing with the mystery of why such technology has been lost. It seems that contemporary pen makers who offer flex nibs, like Danitrio, are reinventing that technology.

 

Would I personally buy a super flex nib if it were available? Certainly! It would be great fun.

[artaddict]

It sure would be nice!

 

I've often wondered if it's possible to put a vintage flex nib in a modern pen body.

[goodguy]

The problem is that people are not accustomed to flexible nibs, especially the heavy-handed ballpoint users. A flexible nib would last them maybe five minutes, and then the unhappy customer would be on the phone or in the store telling some poor clerk all about how their nib "just broke", no doubt due to "poor workmanship" or some other silly reason.

 

Of course, we all know that the broken nib would be entirely the customer's fault.

 

However, the manufacturer would have no recourse - how can they tell a customer how much pressure is too much? They would be inundated with broken nibs and have to constantly replace them.

In that case how about offering nibs as an after market part from a maker that the original factory support.I will give am example to what I mean.

For years if you wanted to soop up you Mercedes you went to a small company cald AMG and they would put all sort of stuff on you.Now they were so good that MErcedes eventualy bought them so this way they gave the more driver prone person the joy of driving a fasted and sportier car and still selling him a Mercedes car.

[Titivillus]

It sure would be nice!

 

I've often wondered if it's possible to put a vintage flex nib in a modern pen body.

 

 

Sure would if the diameter of the nib end and feed would fit. I know there is at least one calligraphic modern pen that can use Esterbrook nibs. And I switched a Sheaffer nib into a Rexall pen body.

 

So it might take some machining but would be doable

 

Kurt

[artaddict]

It sure would be nice!

 

I've often wondered if it's possible to put a vintage flex nib in a modern pen body.

 

 

Sure would if the diameter of the nib end and feed would fit. I know there is at least one calligraphic modern pen that can use Esterbrook nibs. And I switched a Sheaffer nib into a Rexall pen body.

 

So it might take some machining but would be doable

 

Kurt

 

Thanks, Kurt, that's good to know!

[Jinnayah]

My best friend and I were talking about this just the other day, how nice it would be to be able to get a modern flex pen without having to get it customized. It doesn't have to be default or on the lower end pens. Replacement nibs would be great on pens where you can switch easily. Even a special order (at a reasonable cost) wouldn't be so bad.

 

It just seems that it shouldn't be that hard to reverse-engineer the flexies. It's a combination of geometry and metal properties, right? There's extant examples, so geometry's easy enough to get. I'm convinced the metallurgy has been preserved somewhere. Maybe not among pen manufacturers, but maybe old engineering manuals or somewhere. Heck, a look at the microstructure of a damaged example could quite possibly tell a metallurgist what needs to be done to reproduce it.

It really seems that a company with sufficient resources and desire ought to be able to figure this out.

 

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the back of someone's desk at Waterman, all the documents needed to produce these things still existed. But that's because I know old engineers. They never throw away ANYTHING.

[Titivillus]

It sure would be nice!

 

I've often wondered if it's possible to put a vintage flex nib in a modern pen body.

 

 

Sure would if the diameter of the nib end and feed would fit. I know there is at least one calligraphic modern pen that can use Esterbrook nibs. And I switched a Sheaffer nib into a Rexall pen body.

 

So it might take some machining but would be doable

 

Kurt

 

Thanks, Kurt, that's good to know!

 

I have a few steel dip nibs that I would love to fountain-pen but the bottom shape won't fit! :ltcapd:

 

Kurt

 

[Titivillus]

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the back of someone's desk at Waterman, all the documents needed to produce these things still existed. But that's because I know old engineers. They never throw away ANYTHING.

 

Unfortunately old engineer's family do throw things away I can imagine that everything necessary to produce flexy nibs was in a cardboard box pushed up against the wall of a garage somewhere that when time came to do an estate sale all of the 'old papers and junk' got trash canned because they didn't look valuable or they were musty.

 

If you figure that flexible nibs were produced up until the 40s-50s that would mean that the people were in their 30 -50 so they are now best guess 80 or so. So we might have missed out on the documents by 20 years

 

Geometry would not be a problem but the metallurgy could. You might be able to tell exactly what the composition of the nib is ( but I bet it would be expensive ) but the technique to get to that point might be lost.

 

I would LOVE to buy a modern flexible nib and I am not saying that it would be impossible but just that it might be more difficult and costly to do.

 

Kurt

 

 

[welfvet]

Would ya all indulge me to veer slightly off topic and ask which pen/s I should seek out if I wanted to get a good vintage flex? Aesthetics would not be a major issue, I like larger pens and admire the Parker striped Vacumatics, but as I understand it the Watermans appear to be the gold standard in vintage flex. Am I on the right track?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Nic

 

P.S. have just started using my new Nakaya urushi with fine flexible nib. EEEEuw. Very fine, taking some getting used-to for a typical medium nib user. The flex is subtle but I'm starting to really enjoy.

 

Nic

[OBERON1]

The reasons for the disappearance of flex nibs are simple:

1) The way we write today is different from what people did 70 years ago. In the past, schools used to put great value on teaching hand writing. That included intense calligraphy lessons, where flex nibs were essential. Today nobody considers hand writing important. Even more then using ball points, today we type.

2) Like in the watch industry, most pen manufacturers buy their nibs from two sources only. Pen companies do not have the "flexibility" to manufacture flex nibs. They mostly take the well proven route.

3) The technology for manufacturing flex nibs is not a secret known to only a chosen few. Simply, the manufacturing process in use today is different and will not yield flex and the demand does not justify the necessary investment.

 

[jmkeuning]

I cannot use flex nibs. I have tried.

 

I am practicing my italic, so maybe after I learn to write proper some of my flex nibs will be used by me.

[Titivillus]

The reasons for the disappearance of flex nibs are simple:

1) .... Today nobody considers hand writing important. Even more then using ball points, today we type.

There are several thousand people looking at this site that might disagree with that statement :ltcapd: Maybe BIC won't make a flex nib but Ancora might

 

 

2) Like in the watch industry, most pen manufacturers buy their nibs from two sources only. Pen companies do not have the "flexibility" to manufacture flex nibs. They mostly take the well proven route.

But there are some pen companies that do make all of their nibs inhouse & would be able to make small batches of flexible nibs. Doesn't Nakaya do some cuts to their nib for increasing flexibility.

 

 

3) The technology for manufacturing flex nibs is not a secret known to only a chosen few. Simply, the manufacturing process in use today is different and will not yield flex and the demand does not justify the necessary investment.

Does this mean that someone in their garage could start making flexible nibs with the right equipment :bunny01:

So who's got the machine shop and forge that wan'ts to give it at try!

 

Kurt

 

 

[Titivillus]

I cannot use flex nibs. I have tried.

 

I am practicing my italic, so maybe after I learn to write proper some of my flex nibs will be used by me.

 

 

But just because you can't doesn't me the rest of us might not want them

But what makes pen collecting fun in that there are nibs out there for people who want flex and others who want nails.

 

Unfortunately it is harder to find a flexible nib as there is a limited number :bonk:

 

Kurt

Edited January 1, 2008 by Tytyvyllus

[jmkeuning]

OK Kurt, you can have my vote. Just print this out for your proxy.

 

I have a sweet Waterman 100 year nib and section that can definitely be fit into any number of pens...

 

But, like I said, I cannot do anything cool with it.