Esterbrook nib quality vs. other name brands

[rollsrazor]

I recently inquired about the smoothness of an esterbrook nib that I was thinking about bidding on. The reply was that it was smooth as far as Esterbrook nibs go, but of course could not compete with the best offered by vintage Parkers Watermans etc. I don't have very many of these "premium" nibs and was wondering what others thought about a comparison . Thank You Steve A

[Richard]

Esterbrook's tipped Renew-Point nibs (3000-, 8000-, and 9000-series nibs) are usually acceptable but not spectacular. They can be tuned to write as nicely as any other tipped nib. Esterbrook's untipped nibs (1000- and 2000-series nibs) are rarely finished as carefully as the tipped ones. They can be adjusted to write well, but because they're untipped they will wear.

[Dean]

For what it's worth, I have a 9556 Estie nib that was tuned in the past by Richard Binder and it is my smoothest nib out of all my pens including several Pelikans, Waterman, Sailor (just as smooth, but a different feel), Dolci Vita... get my drift. This is just one guys experience however.

 

Dean

[Gerry]

Just to add a point, the tipped nibs, while able to be smoothed to equal the performance of most any other FP nib do not exhibit the flex you'll find with some of the vintage nibs. Not a problem if flex isn't a requirement, but sometimes a consideration.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[Rufus]

I'd agree with RB that the 9000 series are acceptable, but not spectacular out-of-the-box. I've never had one tweaked by a nibmeister because I've never thought it'd be worth the cost. I use my Esties all the time for my more mundane chores such as the grocery list, but when it comes to serious writing I pull out either my Bexley Americana or my Parker Duofold Centennial, both of which were tweaked by Richard, and there is no comparison. Interestingly, however, I find my Estie 1551 nib to be the smoothest of all my Estie nibs and it is the most basic of the lot, but it's still along way from my Bexley and Parker nibs.

Edited December 23, 2007 by Rufus

[noah8902]

I guess my experience is a bit different than some here. I really like my Estie 9000's (in Fine and Medium), and find them 'different' but not 'harsher' than, say, the 18k Fine on my '35 Parker Vacumatic. The Parker is a much more flexible nib, and is typically wetter than the Estie. So, the diminished friction that results from the nib flexing and putting down a wetter line is experienced in the hand as 'smoother'. However, the firmer Estie wins for 'control' hands down. It's a much easier pen to write quickly with, and if your handwriting is small, or if you're lifting the pen off the paper frequently (when you're printing or writing a series of numbers), it is a far more enjoyable pen to write with. An automotive metaphor might be the comparison between a Cadillac and a BMW. Each would be advantageous in different situations which require different talents.

 

If I was writing a manuscript, or other lengthy document, I pull out my Vac. because that's where she shines, just gliding along over the miles of interstate. If, however, i need to write checks, or send invoices, short notes, etc., which require little bursts of speed, the Estie is always my favorite. And, with the interchangeable nib, I can alter the characteristics to my tastes/needs of the moment, and still have that firm 'feel'.

 

As they say, that's why they make jelly beans in different colors. I doubt there's just one FP out there that will satisfy all your writing requirements. Which is probably a good thing, because it gives you the opportunity to savor the differences amongst a few FP's

[Robert Hughes]

Of course you should keep in mind the original and current price difference between an Esterbrook and a Parker, Waterman or Sheaffer; the Estie was a less expensive pen. But compare an Esterbrook to a true 3rd tier pen such as a Majestic and you get a whole new appreciation for the quality of work on an Estie nib; Majestics look like toys or movie props in comparison.

 

My 2 working Esterbrooks are: a "J" with 9668 medium nib, and a "407" dip-less pen with a 9550; also have an SJ with 9555 nib that needs a new sac. All are excellent, consistent, comfortable writers; I have no complaints about any of them, save the 9555 which runs a little dry for my tastes.

[MacP]

Esterbrook's tipped Renew-Point nibs (3000-, 8000-, and 9000-series nibs) are usually acceptable but not spectacular. They can be tuned to write as nicely as any other tipped nib. Esterbrook's untipped nibs (1000- and 2000-series nibs) are rarely finished as carefully as the tipped ones. They can be adjusted to write well, but because they're untipped they will wear.

 

Richard, how does one go about 'tuning' nibs? Is this something that needs a professional's touch?

[EventHorizon]

Least we not forget that Esterbrook pens were made for the masses (i.e. students, secretaries etc) so therefor made to be functional, durable and affordable not considered as premium. The sacrifice was maybe how smooth the nib was. In my opinion, for something that was mass produced as the Esterbrook J pens or $1.00 pens were, their cost to function "ratio" is extremely high. Would I compare a 9000 series nib to the Parkers of the world? No, but I will say that Esterbrook is the best all around vintage that exists. Sorry guys, not on a soap box just full of coffee this morning

 

Now, all that being said, I have a couple J's with a 2668 nib that I love and will put up against my Pelikan medium nib as equal. I have one 3000 series Sunburst nib which I have only dipped and tried but found it very smooth.

 

Now back to more coffee.

[mstelz]

I just got a NOS Estie J in blue with 4 nibs (all uninked):

Here my very personal impressions:

2048 - Flex - Fine:

Unwritable. Scratches like hell and pins itself into the paper. I can sew with it, but not write!

 

2314M Medium stub it's described, but its a left foot italic I'd say:

Very smooth and nice, about like at Triumph but not so hard feeling, and by far not as buttery as my stub 51.

Pretty broad (for me) and not much line-variations, but I sort of like it.

 

9314F Fine stub, also left footed:

Out of the box Very fine, VERY scratchy. In my anger I started scribling around with it on my Swiss Army knifes fine file (Don't kill me, but I didn't have anything else and WAS angry) and wow! Suddenly its a little broader (MY width now), and nearly smooth!!! It's getting better by writing, but I wouldn't call it my favorit.

 

9788 - medium Flex the most expensive one and my first Flex:

Smooth, very plesant to write with and my perfect width. But Flex???? I have to press VERY hard to make it spread, and this hard pressing is absloutely not my writing style, and so with my amount of pressure there are no line variations.

It's my current favorit of the 4.

Edited December 29, 2007 by mstelz

[Rufus]

Least we not forget that Esterbrook pens were made for the masses (i.e. students, secretaries etc) so therefor made to be functional, durable and affordable not considered as premium. The sacrifice was maybe how smooth the nib was. In my opinion, for something that was mass produced as the Esterbrook J pens or $1.00 pens were, their cost to function "ratio" is extremely high. Would I compare a 9000 series nib to the Parkers of the world? No, but I will say that Esterbrook is the best all around vintage that exists. Sorry guys, not on a soap box just full of coffee this morning

 

Now, all that being said, I have a couple J's with a 2668 nib that I love and will put up against my Pelikan medium nib as equal. I have one 3000 series Sunburst nib which I have only dipped and tried but found it very smooth.

 

Now back to more coffee.

 

 

I think you make an excellent point: it's really not valid to compare the Estie nibs with those of high-end pens. Nevertheless, I've owned several high-end pens with nibs that are clearly inferior to my Estie nibs. Moreover, I'm convinced that most of my Esties will be in lovely shape 50 years from now (with proper care, of course), but I'm not so sure about some of the high-end pens.

[noah8902]

Well, i'm not sure why something 'made for the masses', or for secretaries, infers inferiority. If anything, the design and manufacture of something for the masses, as well as 'heavy' use by those in the secretarial field would indicate that those products would have to be made with the best materials to be robust and well engineered to deliver consistent performance during heavy use over long periods of time (think Mercedes diesel). Being inexpensive doesn't necessarily translate into 'cheap', either. Every Estie I've ever held has that well made, expensive 'feel'. They're just not overpriced. They didn't need to be.

 

I adore my '35 Parker Vac, it writes like whipped cream, passing over the page is like stroking a smooth and lovely thigh. However, my Estie, with whatever nib I'm using, offers a degree of solidness and firmness and control the Parker cannot match.

[Splicer]

I only have a 9128 (tipped extra-fine flex) but it is one of my best writers. Very reliable, and a nice degree of flex (not a lot of flex, mind you, but a good balance between line personality and ease of use). It is ever so slightly scratchy, but that's hardly surprising considering how fine a point it is.

[rollsrazor]

Thanks for all the feedback, Steve A

[birdy]

FWIW,

 

I recently purchased a NOS 9314F from Richard Biinder. It is a smooth and surprisingly wet writer out of the box. I wondered if Richard possibly "tunes" these Renew Points he sells before they ship (maybe he'll chime in and answer that question).

 

Relevant to this thread, this 9314F compares very favorably to a customized Binder .5 mm, 15 deg. LF oblique stub steel nib that I purchased for a Pelikan last year. The Estie nib is not quite as fine, but the contrast in vertical to horizontal strokes (at least with the way I hold the pen) is pretty comparable.

 

[EventHorizon]

Well, i'm not sure why something 'made for the masses', or for secretaries, infers inferiority.

 

Maybe I worded something wrong. I in no way feel or believe Esterbrook nibs are inferior. I think they are some of the best out there in regards to materials used, design and longevity. I do agree with mstelz however on the 2048 and I will add also the 2556. I just can't write with them as they are to fine.

Edited January 30, 2008 by EventHorizon

[snakeankle]

my father was a fountain pen freak and so was his sister. my auntie gave me an esterbrook when i was in HS -- don't know how she came by it, but it had a stub nib. you could still buy these pens and nibs into the 1980s in stationery stores where i grew up, and so i acquired a collection of nibs for my pen which i would of course KILL to have now. my folks were old fashioned luddite types who never really accepted the idea of ballpoint pens, apparently.

 

my experience of esterbrook nibs was that i did not like the fine nibs and the "manifold" nibs at ALL. they were scratchy and icky and i changed them out as soon as i could. they did have one nib that was both thin and stubby, and which is now apparently impossible to buy -- and that is of course the nib that i loved, and which i regularly wore down to nothing, more or less. the main line was fine, but it would flex just slightly. it wrote beautifully on plain old binder paper, something that i dare most pocket-jewelry pens to do these days without glopping all over the paper.

 

so i think if esterbrook made pens "for the masses" that is ok with me. i *am* the masses. i like esterbrook, and i can remember trying to find them in stationery stores in the 90s when my pen died, and people looking at me like i was crazy. i remember i used quink blueblack in these pens, because quink was what my father used in his pens.

 

it was around this time that i was given a montblanc 146 and an orange centennial duofold. the mb had a broad nib and the centennial a fine oblique from the factory. both of those are great pens. the cost of entry is, however, ridiculous for the value.

 

i really applaud the pelikan company for making the pelikano, and lamy for making the studio and the safari. i like being able to give my boy a decent pen that he can take to class and lose without having the world end. it's so much better than buying box after box of disposable colored sludge in plastic tubes. i refuse to spend more that 300 on a pen just on principle. when i was in school you could buy decent pens at second hand stores for 10 dollars or less, like the parker 51. i am sorry that is no longer true.

 

 

 

 

[Gerry]

Well, i'm not sure why something 'made for the masses', or for secretaries, infers inferiority.

 

Maybe I worded something wrong. I in no way feel or believe Esterbrook nibs are inferior. I think they are some of the best out there in regards to materials used, design and longevity. I do agree with mstelz however on the 2048 and I will add also the 2556. I just can't write with them as they are to fine.

 

EH - Not sure you need to feel cautious about commenting on the nibs' quality here - just because it's the Esterbrook Forum doesn't mean that we're rabid supporters...

 

I don't think there is any doubt that the folded tine construction is inferior to the 'iridium' tipped construction, at least there isn't in my mind. The folded tine nibs sometimes are as smooth feeling as the tipped ones, and do adapt to the writer's 'hand' much more quickly due to their rapid wear. They are, however, nowhere near as durable as the tipped nibs and will have to be replaced much more often if used daily.

 

I also believe that these nibs were made more inexpensively and as a result were purchased by company purchase agents in bulk for use by employees in many circumstances. Not unlike the government does in buying ballpoints or gel pens now. Rarely do these type of purchases involve the top of the line instruments...

 

So, in short, I believe the thrust of your initial comment was probably pretty accurate, although it might have appeared to imply something not intended.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[Rufus]

I recently purchase an Estie J double jewel with a 9968 nib (flat feed) from a fellow FPN member and what a surprise. The nib is astounding: I've never written with such a smooth and flexible Estie nib before. At the time of purchase I was told this was a special nib, but this one is right up there with the best high-end pens I own. I have several other Estie nibs I really like, but this one is in a different league entirely.

[EventHorizon]

I also believe that these nibs were made more inexpensively and as a result were purchased by company purchase agents in bulk for use by employees in many circumstances. Not unlike the government does in buying ballpoints or gel pens now. Rarely do these type of purchases involve the top of the line instruments... :glare:Regards,

 

Gerry

 

How nice would that be. Your sitting at your desk and you need a nib so you head to the supply cabinet and there is about 10 of everything in there (1xxx up to 9xxx)

 

As for government and BP pens ------ Long live Skilcraft. My Dad had (or has) a million of those pens.