Lamy blue-black (iron-gall)

[mrt77]

I'm curious. How quickly will this ink noticeably damage paper? Moleskine (acid-free), more to the point. I assume it's many years, but I'm curious. Also, anybody know the pH level? I recently bought a bottle and love the color, though I'd like the things I write with it to last as long as I do.

Edited July 3, 2010 by mrt77

[kenmc]

Has anyone actually verified that Lamy b/b in the bottle is iron gall? Mine is exactly the same as in the cartridges. It's hard to believe that could be if one were a dye and the other iron gall. Also odd that there was no warning with my bottle. I can't help but think that this is another "tall tale" like the one that MB was the same as Lamy until someone proved that wrong.

[bwnewton]

Has anyone actually verified that Lamy b/b in the bottle is iron gall? Mine is exactly the same as in the cartridges. It's hard to believe that could be if one were a dye and the other iron gall. Also odd that there was no warning with my bottle. I can't help but think that this is another "tall tale" like the one that MB was the same as Lamy until someone proved that wrong.

 

In my experience the cartridge & bottle do not look nor behave the same. I've used a cart of it before and it was much weaker than from the bottle and also didn't change from blue to bluish-grayish-blackish from oxidation like that of the bottle.

[dgturner]

Has anyone actually verified that Lamy b/b in the bottle is iron gall? Mine is exactly the same as in the cartridges. It's hard to believe that could be if one were a dye and the other iron gall. Also odd that there was no warning with my bottle. I can't help but think that this is another "tall tale" like the one that MB was the same as Lamy until someone proved that wrong.

 

 

While I have not asked Lamy directly (that will likely come soon enough), their Wikipedia page does in fact state "The bottled blue-black is an iron gall based ink. It is a modern formulation that is safe for use in fountain pens; however, many fountain pen users suggest taking precautions to avoid problems that may arise from the ink's mild acidity. These include: flushing regularly to avoid corrosion and not allowing an inked pen to remain capped and unused for long periods of time to avoid clogging. However, it should be noted that pens with gold nibs are less prone to corrosion."

 

 

[amb]

While I have not asked Lamy directly (that will likely come soon enough), their Wikipedia page does in fact state "The bottled blue-black is an iron gall based ink. [...]"

For a counterpoint: I asked Lamy about this a while ago and their answer was quite explicitly that it was not an iron gall ink. I tend to extend some trust to the actual people who make the ink, though certainly not absolute trust; one employee might always be mistaken.

 

To add to the confusion: I don't trust Wikipedia much for technical detail, especially on obscure topics with no references, but I find it curious that while LAMY's own faq discusses ferro-gallic inks (on this page: http://www.lamy.com/content/products/services/faq/index_eng.html, scroll down to "Ink"), they don't actually comment one way or the other about their own inks and say nothing more specific than "The common inks of today for fountain pens are pure colour inks made of water and dyes."

 

Anyone ever care enough to do an actual chemical analysis? I enjoy and use the ink regularly and am personally content that it's either not ferro-gallic or a clever enough formulation not to be a problem, but I still have lingering curiousity about the "is it or isn't it?" question!

[christian83germany]

While I have not asked Lamy directly (that will likely come soon enough), their Wikipedia page does in fact state "The bottled blue-black is an iron gall based ink. [...]"

For a counterpoint: I asked Lamy about this a while ago and their answer was quite explicitly that it was not an iron gall ink. I tend to extend some trust to the actual people who make the ink, though certainly not absolute trust; one employee might always be mistaken.

 

To add to the confusion: I don't trust Wikipedia much for technical detail, especially on obscure topics with no references, but I find it curious that while LAMY's own faq discusses ferro-gallic inks (on this page: http://www.lamy.com/content/products/services/faq/index_eng.html, scroll down to "Ink"), they don't actually comment one way or the other about their own inks and say nothing more specific than "The common inks of today for fountain pens are pure colour inks made of water and dyes."

 

Anyone ever care enough to do an actual chemical analysis? I enjoy and use the ink regularly and am personally content that it's either not ferro-gallic or a clever enough formulation not to be a problem, but I still have lingering curiousity about the "is it or isn't it?" question!

 

Hi!

 

I am German and live in Germany. Being in contact with Lamy (Heidelberg) regularly, I can clearly say that the Lamy T52 ink (blue-black, bottle) is an iron-gall ink. Without any doubt.

 

Cheers

Christian

[Ipno Tizer]

I wonder whether the conflicting accounts of the chemistry of this ink stem from the fact that Lamy Blue Black is in fact two different products, one which comes in cartridges and annother on a bottle. Nonetheless it would be interesting to see some sort of chemical analysis of the two products just out of curiosity.

 

But it doesn't really bother me to be honest. LBB is a good blue grey ink which is as permament as most of us will ever need.

 

I have three inks which fountain pen lore holds to be iron gall. Registrars, MB Midnight Blue and Lamy. There is no doubt that they are all different. Registrar's is the grandest, Midnight Blue is the most sophisticated and Lamy is the prettiest. I wouldn't be without any of them.

 

And that reminds me. I've got a few ink reviews to finish. Not to mention my tax return.

 

See you later.

 

Chris B.

[Randal6393]

Hmmm -- I use Lamy and Montblanc Blue-Black inks and find their behaviour to be much the same as Old World Iron Gall Ink and McCaffrey's Penman's Ink, but at a slower rate. Both OWIG and MP are iron gall inks formulated for dip pens. Technically, however, I would not call a Fountain Pen Ink such as Lamy or Montblanc iron gall. Rather would refer to it as a ferro-sulfate ink. The dip pen version is much more acidic and made from oak galls. Duplicates the old ink formulaes. Fountain Pen versions are buffered better and much less acidic. And are usually made with commercial iron products rather than oak galls. The change from a blueish color to a black takes hours or days with a fountain pen version. Whereas one can watch dip pen iron gall inks deepen from blue to black as they dry.

 

In addition to the amount of chemical activity, time and exposure to air affects ferro-sulfate inks. The suggested directions for Old World Iron Gall Ink recommend changing out a bottle every six months if it is used daily. I have noticed that Gillott 303 nibs corrode rapidly and have a greatly lessened life when using iron gall dip pen inks. However, some of the newer dip pen nibs appear to be made of a more corrosion- resistant steel and last a lot longer. The same factors seem to affect fountain pens when used with ferro-sulfate inks, although to a lesser degree. So I wouldn't recommend using such inks in precious pens or for archival documents. On the other hand, nothing looks quite the same as a wedding invitation done in Copperplate with an iron-gall ink.

 

The reason I enjoy using such inks, be it in fountain pen or a dip pen version, is to experience the history of penmanship. Whatever you use, though, enjoy,

[bwnewton]

Hmmm -- I use Lamy and Montblanc Blue-Black inks and find their behaviour to be much the same as Old World Iron Gall Ink and McCaffrey's Penman's Ink, but at a slower rate. Both OWIG and MP are iron gall inks formulated for dip pens. Technically, however, I would not call a Fountain Pen Ink such as Lamy or Montblanc iron gall. Rather would refer to it as a ferro-sulfate ink. The dip pen version is much more acidic and made from oak galls. Duplicates the old ink formulaes. Fountain Pen versions are buffered better and much less acidic. And are usually made with commercial iron products rather than oak galls. The change from a blueish color to a black takes hours or days with a fountain pen version. Whereas one can watch dip pen iron gall inks deepen from blue to black as they dry.

 

In addition to the amount of chemical activity, time and exposure to air affects ferro-sulfate inks. The suggested directions for Old World Iron Gall Ink recommend changing out a bottle every six months if it is used daily. I have noticed that Gillott 303 nibs corrode rapidly and have a greatly lessened life when using iron gall dip pen inks. However, some of the newer dip pen nibs appear to be made of a more corrosion- resistant steel and last a lot longer. The same factors seem to affect fountain pens when used with ferro-sulfate inks, although to a lesser degree. So I wouldn't recommend using such inks in precious pens or for archival documents. On the other hand, nothing looks quite the same as a wedding invitation done in Copperplate with an iron-gall ink.

 

The reason I enjoy using such inks, be it in fountain pen or a dip pen version, is to experience the history of penmanship. Whatever you use, though, enjoy,

 

Thank you for your thorough reply. Much appreciated.

[RedSox04]

Is this safe for piston filled pens? What about pens with some metal?

 

Namely Lamy 2000 and Pilot VP

[bwnewton]

Is this safe for piston filled pens? What about pens with some metal?

 

Namely Lamy 2000 and Pilot VP

 

If you use them regularly, just flush them with cool water every other filling or so. If your very cautious, flush every fill until you're comfortable with the ink. Just a suggestion.

[lapis]

Is this safe for piston filled pens? What about pens with some metal?

Yes, this ink is safe for all piston-fiilled pens. Whether the pens have metal insides or not. Even -- maybe "especially" -- the Pelikans M800 and M1000, all Ductus models and the Toledo M900, which all have massive brass inside parts.

 

Mike

[Ipno Tizer]

Yes, this is a beautiful ink. Thanks for the review. You explain the need to keep the nib/pen wet while it contains this ink. I'm still fighting to free my Safari of some lingering residue after I let a little dry in the pen for a couple days. Big oops. I was using this ink in its Montblanc incarnation. Too bad it's not available without the iron gall.

This is telling. I used Mont Blanc Midnight Blue in a Parker Reflex for several months. Then I washed the pen with repeated changes of water over a period of several days until there were no obvious traces of ink in the pen. When I came to fill the Reflex again, the minute traces that had been left had still fouled the nib and it has taken a fortnight to get it feeding ink properly. I found that loading the pen with Midnight Blue again for a short period helped to loosen the residues.

 

I immediately tried my Parker Latitude and my Conway Stewart 286 which are out of rotation after having been filled with Registrar's ink and they were fine. I wouldn't want to be without Midnight Blue and I've still got it in my 78g, but contrary to what I would have expected, it seems to be the least benign of the commonly available iron galls. So you need to take a bit of care with it.

 

But I've had Lamy BB in my AlStar since I bought it. I've heard rumours that it is not sufficiently lightfast to be a true archival quality and I find it also fades slightly in water but not enough to make your writing illegible. I reckon it would best be described as the prettiest of the iron galls. And as a practical water resistant ink it's more than good enough.

 

Chris B.

[bridgettt]

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Edited June 18, 2011 by bridgettt

[liapuyat]

I just got a bottle of Lamy Blue-Black and have been using it in a Pelikan M200 with a Binderized M cursive italic nib - what a lovely color, no hint of teal whatsoever, very retro. I think it'll be too dry for some of my other pens, but with my Pelikans it should do well. Later on I'll try to compare it with my other blue-blacks (Pilot, Parker, Pelikan).