Do you own a Churchill ?

[David Miles]

The pen IS reliable - if you get it as a cartridge/converter filler! The problem lies in the lever filler. It's a great pen, so don't let the negativity merchants here put you off.

 

I spoke the truth about the Churchills (notice the plural in that I have experience with more than one of them) that I owned and do not appreciate being called names for doing so.

 

Kurt

 

 

Excuse me, what 'names' are you being called and what gives you the right to lecture me about what I say? I suggest you chill out - and accept that others don't necessarily agree with you.

 

What is 'truth' to you is not so to all other users. My experiences are different from yours. Accept it and don't be so touchy.

Edited November 13, 2007 by David Miles

[shostakovich]

So the moral appears to be, if you are going to buy a modern CS, ONLY buy from a careful seller (such as yourselves, or Richard, or no doubt a few others) if you want a pen that is guaranteed to work first time because the company seem happy that the dealer is going to do final QA for them. Of course you should expect to pay a highish price because the dealer must recompense his time out of his margin on the pen.

 

If you take a chance on paying less for an ebay offering, you should expect to be faced with a pen that doesn't work and may need to be returned to CS for repair before you can use it (and may still be returned in an unsatisfactory condition, according to some of the other posts we see). Same applies to buying direct from a CS stand at a pen show!

 

Andy

I apologise if I'm butting in on a family disagreement here, but I have to say that I tend to agree with andyr7.

 

I have been put off the new CS's because I have heard so much about them which worries me. Also, they would appear to be a bit overpriced, to put it politely. OK, they do look beautiful.

 

But as so many people have told me (and I'm no expert at all) - it is best to buy a vintage CS pen made by the original company. There are apparently many wonderful vintage CS's which have been restored by great people and many are still out there for sale.

 

And for one third of the price or less you can get an original pen.

 

Shostas

 

[David Miles]

Standard line CS pens are not particularly overpriced when you compare them against similar high end pens. However, I would agree that the limited editions are way too expensive; I guess that this is because they only tend to be produced in lots of 100 pens. Once you get a discount from the RRP (which is easily available from many CS dealers), pens like the Churchill and the Nelson are quite reasonably priced, in my opinion.

Edited November 13, 2007 by David Miles

[Titivillus]

Excuse me, what 'names' are you being called and what gives you the right to lecture me about what I say? I suggest you chill out - and accept that others don't necessarily agree with you.

 

Now wait a second here!

 

You called me a negativity merchant because I don't agree with your opinion of the Churchill. So why do I need to chill out when you lower the conversation by using a 'cute slur' because my opinion of the pen does not agree with yours?

 

I think you might need to chill out and realize that other people's opinions are different but by reducing them to a stereotype isn't a good way to discuss a pen.

 

What is 'truth' to you is not so to all other users. My experiences are different from yours. Accept it and don't be so touchy.

 

Yes and my multiple bad experiences should be discounted because I state an opinion different than your.

 

Stick around here for awhile and you might see someone get touchy in a thread ( unless the mods pull it). I was stating an opinion of your post- live with it :roflmho:

 

 

Kurt

Edited November 13, 2007 by Tytyvyllus

[David Miles]

Now wait a second here!

 

You called me a negativity merchant because I don't agree with your opinion of the Churchill. So why do I need to chill out when you lower the conversation by using a 'cute slur' because my opinion of the pen does not agree with yours?

 

I think you might need to chill out and realize that other people's opinions are different but by reducing them to a stereotype isn't a good way to discuss a pen.

 

Yes and my multiple bad experiences should be discounted because I state an opinion different than your.

 

Stick around here for awhile and you might see someone get touchy in a thread ( unless the mods pull it). I was stating an opinion of your post- live with it :roflmho:

 

 

Kurt

 

 

Yeah, and I was stating an opinion of your post - live with that!

 

I'm not discounting your opinion, just stating that a potential buyer should not be put off by a few negative experiences that some people have had. And the term 'negativity merchants' was not specifically targeted at yourself, but at all those who seem to relish giving bad news to prospective buyers without considering different opinions of others. Now, I'm not saying you were doing this, but your post seemed to imply that I was targeting you.

 

I hope that clears the air. :bonk:

[Titivillus]

I'm not discounting your opinion, just stating that a potential buyer should not be put off by a few negative experiences that some people have had.

 

But really people should be put off as there are know issues with the Churchill around the lever and button filler versions as well issues with the feeds. This is a quality issue and I see that in the thread they are working on it but there are alot of them out there still. So there needs to be the information out there that buying a Churchill might get you a pen with a trip to an after market repair person or back to the factory.

 

 

simple as that- buyer beware.

 

 

Kurt

 

 

 

[David Miles]

I'm not discounting your opinion, just stating that a potential buyer should not be put off by a few negative experiences that some people have had.

 

But really people should be put off as there are know issues with the Churchill around the lever and button filler versions as well issues with the feeds. This is a quality issue and I see that in the thread they are working on it but there are alot of them out there still. So there needs to be the information out there that buying a Churchill might get you a pen with a trip to an after market repair person or back to the factory.

 

 

simple as that- buyer beware.

 

 

Kurt

 

 

You are right - I don't doubt it. But not all buyers will necessarily want the lever version of the Churchill. I bought my Churchill three months ago, a cc filler, and it has performed flawlessly. I use it quite regularly, as part of my rotation. I really believe that the quality issues are much more to do with the lever and button filler types, otherwise I'm sure I would have noticed something by now.

 

By the way, have you used a Nelson? It's a twist filler I believe. I am thinking of adding this one to my collection.

[Greg]

Here's my experience with a Churchill from a while ago.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...amp;#entry66068

 

Greg

[Stylo]

The more expensive a pen, the harsher the criticism will be for such malfunction problems. The Churchill is nearly a $500 pen, which is a very hefty sum for a pen that is not made out of precious metal and that doesn't have any special intricate engravings or designs.

 

For me, the main attraction to CS has been the really nice finishes. I lost my chance to snap up a Duro for $270.

[David Miles]

The more expensive a pen, the harsher the criticism will be for such malfunction problems. The Churchill is nearly a $500 pen, which is a very hefty sum for a pen that is not made out of precious metal and that doesn't have any special intricate engravings or designs.

 

For me, the main attraction to CS has been the really nice finishes. I lost my chance to snap up a Duro for $270.

 

 

The Churchill is certainly not cheap, but when you look at the ridiculous prices being asked for Parker limited editions like the True Blue, the Churchill's price is not unreasonable. Yes, it's made of plastic, but it's an extremely beautiful acrylic of composite colours and much nicer than any plastic pen I've come across. And what's more it's available as standard in a myriad of different finishes, which you can increase with several others if you want a pen with a bespoke colour. And don't forget that you also receive a big cigar and a little booklet about Churchill in the gift box!

Edited November 16, 2007 by David Miles

[Stylo]

The Churchill is certainly not cheap, but when you look at the ridiculous prices being asked for Parker limited editions like the True Blue, the Churchill's price is not unreasonable.

But as you said, the true blue is a limited edition and hence the price reflects its "limitedness" in addition to whatever it would have cost if it were a regular production pen, so the comparison doesn't seem appropriate. Btwy, I have seen the true blue being sold for $499 at an authorized dealer. What is the typical price for a Churchill nowadays, $450-480?

 

Yes, it's made of plastic, but it's an extremely beautiful acrylic of composite colours and much nicer than any plastic pen I've come across.

No question about the beauty of the finishes, and as I have already said, that is why I still look at CS pens. But I'd rather get the beautiful finish in a slightly smaller package for a lot less. You may still be able to find a Duro, for example, for around $300. Btwy, the nibs of the Duro, 100, and Churchill are all the same, so for the substantially higher price of the Churchill, you only seem to get a few slightly nicer finishing touches.

 

[David Miles]

The Churchill is certainly not cheap, but when you look at the ridiculous prices being asked for Parker limited editions like the True Blue, the Churchill's price is not unreasonable.

But as you said, the true blue is a limited edition and hence the price reflects its "limitedness" in addition to whatever it would have cost if it were a regular production pen, so the comparison doesn't seem appropriate. Btwy, I have seen the true blue being sold for $499 at an authorized dealer. What is the typical price for a Churchill nowadays, $450-480?

 

All Churchill pens are numbered, so I suppose this means they are also limited. Maybe Ms Burke can expand on this. Anyway, being a limited edition doesn't make the pen any better.

 

Yes, it's made of plastic, but it's an extremely beautiful acrylic of composite colours and much nicer than any plastic pen I've come across.

No question about the beauty of the finishes, and as I have already said, that is why I still look at CS pens. But I'd rather get the beautiful finish in a slightly smaller package for a lot less. You may still be able to find a Duro, for example, for around $300. Btwy, the nibs of the Duro, 100, and Churchill are all the same, so for the substantially higher price of the Churchill, you only seem to get a few slightly nicer finishing touches.

 

That's fine - the Churchill is not for everyone. That's why CS offers other models like the Wellington, the Duro, etc.

 

 

[andyr7]

All Churchill pens are numbered, so I suppose this means they are also limited. Maybe Ms Burke can expand on this.

I suggest you have a look at post #13 here regarding modern CS numbering, which has always seemed to be bordering on the deceitful to me, as most people initially interpret it as you did. I hope Mary will correct me if I have explained the numbering wrongly in that topic.

 

Andy

[Stylo]

All Churchill pens are numbered, so I suppose this means they are also limited. Maybe Ms Burke can expand on this. Anyway, being a limited edition doesn't make the pen any better.

 

Being numbered in no way implies being limited. I never said being limited makes for a better pen, but it certainly makes a pen more expensive than it would have been otherwise.

 

[dwattsjr]

 

There has been a lot of comments about the Churchill, but I am going to add my experiences as well. I received my first Churchill as a gift from my wife on the occasion of our twenty-fifth wedding anniversary in 2003, a blue button filler (a filling system that I particularly love). Needless to say, this was just months before the end of the so-called "Don Yendle" era. As beautiful as the presentation was, the pen itself did not work properly from the very beginning.

 

Just after the "Glenn Jones" group took over, I contacted Conway Stewart and subsequently sent the pen to England for repair. It came back and immediately leaked all over my hand upon first filling it. So, back it went again. At this point, I had a telephone conversation with Glenn Jones and others, after which they sent me a Churchill Combo (which is a variant that is no longer available) for my troubles along with returning the original pen after repair. This pen went back two more times, and still never worked properly.

 

I finally asked Richard Binder to look at it. After that, it has worked nicely and has been in regular rotation. Although I have to agree with what he wrote above, it does not hold very much ink (I think that my Richard Binder-designed Columbia holds more ink, but I have definitive way of confirming that). However, as long as I fill it first thing each day, it is sufficient to carry me through.

 

My initial disappointment with the pen was made all the greater because it was, externally, a beautifully made pen that was well balanced and a joy to write with. I love large pens, although I typically write with them unposted. This pen is no exception. Since its return from Richard, I have been finally able to enjoy it as a writing instrument and not just as a nice looking conversation piece in its presentation box.

 

So, having said all that, I would recommend the Churchill as long as it is a later pen and not one of the earlier pens. I would not be surprised if at some point I would get another Churchill.

[Ernest]

Hi all,

 

I too was smitten by the beauty and craftsmanship of CS pens.

I like large pens, aka, the Densho size of Danitrio is my favourite.

The Conway Churchhill is perfect for me. I secured a 2006 Maki-e Churchill through the marketplace..

it was one hack of a deal. Truly outstanding piece of work. I will post pictures later.

 

Though the pen itself was perfect... the size, the feather-like weight , the craftsmanship..

BUT, unfortunately, like many of you, the nib and the feed system failed miserably!

Mary Burke has kindly agreed to change to their "new" feed system with the screw-in converter.

She promised that this will make the difference with "enhanced performance".

I have sent the entire nib and feed to her. Once the new feed system comes back to me , I shall report my

experience to this board.

 

Ernest

 

[steve b]

Sorry Martin, this sounds like 'damning with faint praise'!

 

Am I unreasonable in expecting that if I were to pay £300 or more for any new pen it should already be perfectly adjusted and should work first time with pretty much any ink I cared to use? Why should the company expect their dealers to do their final QA for them?

 

Conway Stewart is not alone in this respect. Not that that's an excuse, of course! You are correct, dealers should not have to perform final QA on this scale, but would you buy a pen from a retailer that didn't bother?

 

I would also question Richard's assertion about the improvement of the quality of pens produced in the 'post Don Yendle' era. There are numerous instances mentioned in this forum of new pens that don't work properly because of faulty feeds, converter fillers that leak, cracks that appear within a few weeks of delivery, prototypes that have been sold as production pens - and these are all 'Glenn Jones' era products. Things may indeed now be getting better - but it would seem there is still some way to go.

 

I cannot comment on any of those specific issues because thankfully we have not experienced them in recent times. What I can say is that quality took a dive shortly after the change of ownership - so much so that we nearly dropped Conway Stewart altogether. Quite a few pens were returned before the customer even saw them and even more nibs had to be swapped out because they were "Friday afternoon" jobs that were only suited to the scrap metal bin! Because of these issues we are particularly diligent with all the Conway Stewart pens we supply. Not an ideal situation I know but, as I wrote above, things are definitely getting better. In hindsight, we are pleased that we continued to support Conway Stewart (although comments about the current product line-up are probably best left to other topics ).

 

Martin

 

 

 

I have a CC Churchill on order with Martin which I'm expecting any day now. So I'll let you know how it performs when it arrives.

 

[CharlieB]

When I posted to this thread two weeks ago, it was a simple discussion of whether the Churchill was a good pen, and I put in my endorsement of the pen based my personal experience with two Churchills.

 

Since then, the thread has evolved into a larger discussion of Conway Stewart products in general. I own five Conway Stewart pens (the two aforementioned Churchills, a Duro, an Icon, and a Drake). They all worked well out directly out of the box and have been smooth and reliable writers. None of them has given me a moment's problem. I purchased these five pens from four different vendors, so this is not a case of purchasing from a "special seller" like Martin or Richard who adjusts the pens a the point of retail.

[goodguy]

Thank you all for the very interesting and informative info.

I am at the process to choose my next BIG pen.

I just got the current grail pen (Delta Israel 60 special LE Vermail) and now I am hunting for the next pen.

I have already contacted Pam and got few prices including the CS Churchill.

The Churchill's price is one of the "cheapper" .

I also concider buying it from eBay.

I risk getting a leaky pen but I will consider that if I bid on it.

If it will leak I will send it to Richard as it seams like he is the best address for these problems.

[vervavolant]

I'm not discounting your opinion, just stating that a potential buyer should not be put off by a few negative experiences that some people have had.

 

But really people should be put off as there are know issues with the Churchill around the lever and button filler versions as well issues with the feeds. This is a quality issue and I see that in the thread they are working on it but there are alot of them out there still. So there needs to be the information out there that buying a Churchill might get you a pen with a trip to an after market repair person or back to the factory.

 

 

simple as that- buyer beware.

 

 

Kurt

 

I only wish that I had seen opinions expressed as frankly as yours when requesting an opinion on an item, pen or whatever, expensive to buy. There are some who expresses themselves: yes but not but maybe, that are not helpful at all. And there are some others that feel they are blasfeming when saying something is wrong with an item supposed to be good so their answers are more an excusble reason than an advice. Next time I want to know something about a FP, I will shure consider you as one of the first in my list, If you dont mind. vervavolant