Cheated By Well-Known German Seller On Ebay -- Live And Learn

[Paul-in-SF]

Events: purchased pen, received pen, pen's nib was cracked at the base so it would not stay in place, also filling system did not seem to be working properly. Contacted seller, he asked me to send him the pen for repair, and he would pay for postage*. Once he got the pen he strung me along for weeks until it was too late for me to take any actions on eBay. For the past six weeks he has not sent me any update messages nor responded to any of my messages. So I am out the entire cost of the pen and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

*Yes, I knew this was not recommended by eBay, but he is a top-rated seller so I took a chance. Live and learn, and I hope you all can learn from this and never do things outside eBay channels regarding eBay purchases. Don't trust anyone, because a top-rated seller may just be someone who is clever enough, like this one, to avoid bad reviews and to get away with this kind of thing.

 

I know I am not allowed to mention the seller's eBay ID in a post, but I will cheerfully identify him to anyone who wants to know, via private message.

[corniche]

...Live and learn...

Pretty much sums it up.

 

Don't let anyone string you along - that's Bogus Business 101A.

 

 

- Sean

[Honeybadgers]

Yet another example of this forum's absurd policy of not allowing us to actually warn each other about people scamming us.

 

Would sure be nice to know who it is so I can avoid them in the future.

[rickap]

Can you go to the payment system you used, like PayPal, and dispute the payment there or to your bank if you used a credit card?

 

Rick

[Wahl]

A good reason not to buy from e-bay

 

The seller, yes, I can guess...

[Ambien]

Yes I have feeling it's someone I've bought from the past but I managed to do a return even though I had to pay shipping back.

[joss]

You did not do anything outside ebay I think, only a lot of time was lost. In the case you paid via Paypal you probably know that you can open a dispute within 180 days after purchase.

[sansenri]

very curious, as I know many reputed German sellers and cannot think of the one that I could guess about behaving like this...

Now, despite we cannot supposedly mention the name (and despite I could just ask Paul to PM me the name) are there any hints that can be given...?

 

but besides, I recall several threads in which opinion on a specific seller has been asked, and amply given, even negative ones, should we start the thread that way?...

[Paul-in-SF]

I didn't want to put the name in the thread because I was afraid it would get the whole thread disappeared without discussion. Initial of seller ID is "w" for what that's worth.

 

As for disputing things on Paypal, when I look at my Paypal account it doesn't list any of the transactions from eBay. That doesn't seem right, but I've never had occasion to check it before. When I first started using eBay, I wonder if I accidentally created a separate Paypal account (there couldn't be two with the same email address could there?) I'm trying to resolve that now. I'm not that hopeful that Paypal will offer any relief, but they might be able to claw back the payment for a while, pending resolution.

 

You did not do anything outside ebay I think, only a lot of time was lost. In the case you paid via Paypal you probably know that you can open a dispute within 180 days after purchase.

 

Returning the pen to the seller for repair without opening an issue first is outside of eBay. So I have nothing to prove that I don't have the pen any more.

[greencobra]

i'm wondering why would a well known seller ruin his ebay business over a simple pen repair. i don't remember seeing a value to your pen. if it were several hundred dollars i'd be in a panic, a hundred dollars or less, not so much, concerned...heck yes. i give people the benefit of the doubt. life gets in the way sometime, people get sick, people get hurt, close relatives die and so on and so on. i'd still get in touch with ebay.

[corniche]

i'm wondering why would a well known seller ruin his ebay business over a simple pen repair.

Hi Green Cobra, et al,

 

Cost/Benefit analysis is something all businesses practice, but it has many facets.

 

It is an unfortunate reality that some business people opt to take Fords approach and decide several exploding Pintos was actually cheaper than replacing/retooling a defective 80 cent part for a quarter of a million Pintos.

 

It seems this seller has taken into account that he can sustain so many "dents" to reputation before it will have an adverse affect on his business.

 

Personally, I don't like this approach, but sometimes people decide they want to "choose their battles" or "cut their losses."

 

 

- Sean

[inkstainedruth]

I would say to file a dispute on eBay, and (depending on how you paid) PayPal and/or your credit card company. I had to file a dispute a few years ago with a seller with literally tens of thousands of transactions, but I got screwed and was basically told "Oh, don't like that we stiffed you? Send the pens back..." (instead of apologizing for failing to include the cartridges that were in the listing, and saying "We'll get that right out to you..."). I was not then allowed to give feedback (since the dispute was settled in my favor within a few hours); but it left me wondering how many other people there were who had been in the same boat as me -- not allowed to give feedback against the seller.

As for German sellers, the only one I've ever had dealings with on eBay was Rolf Thiel at Missing Pens, and both times it was a pleasure to do business with him (of course, the second time was for a large enough amount of money that PayPal called my HOUSE, to verify that it was a legit transaction. After assuring them that it was, I got off the phone, looked at my husband, and said, "OMG -- I really DID just pay that much money for TWO pens, didn't I?"

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Parker51]

If the seller no longer has any active listings, they very well may be ill or have a family member who is ill or perhaps has died.

Please remember that many people involved in this hobby are not young and have health conditions which may delay a response.

Hopefully the seller has not died. I am certain that if any of the fine persons I have been familiar with in this hobby were in the middle of getting something resolved at the time they died this created some significant complications.

As I think back, it appears at least one person of note in this hobby dies unexpectedly and suddenly each year. This year I know of two.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Parker51

[corniche]

If the seller no longer has any active listings, they very well may be ill or have a family member who is ill or perhaps has died.

 

 

Thanks for this admonishment, Parker. I meant to add thoughts along these lines to my post and it slipped my mind.

 

It should also be noted that Europe is suffering with a really hard spike in Covid cases - especially Germany.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-cases.html

 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-germany-virus-cases-hours.html

 

 

- Sean

[praxim]

True, they are. The diagnosed case rate in Germany is currently a bit over half of that of the USA on a population basis. I hope those of you in America are staying careful. It will be a long road back.

[Seney724]

If the seller no longer has any active listings, they very well may be ill or have a family member who is ill or perhaps has died.

Please remember that many people involved in this hobby are not young and have health conditions which may delay a response.

Hopefully the seller has not died. I am certain that if any of the fine persons I have been familiar with in this hobby were in the middle of getting something resolved at the time they died this created some significant complications.

As I think back, it appears at least one person of note in this hobby dies unexpectedly and suddenly each year. This year I know of two.

 

A very fair and important point.

 

However, he does still have current sales posts. 9 eBay pages worth, to my count it is at least 440 pens. And, they are not old listings which keep renewing. He listed some new pens for sale yesterday.

 

Many of us have had acceptable dealings in the past with this seller, myself included. I think he should be given every opportunity to explain what has gone on with the OP's purchase.

 

In the absence of a proper explanation and/or proper treatment of the OP, who was a trusting customer, I will not purchase anything more from him. Why take the chance?

 

Hopefully one of his pen friends will give him a head's up about this thread...........

[A Smug Dill]

Yet another example of this forum's absurd policy of not allowing us to actually warn each other about people scamming us.

It isn't absurd if it doesn't fit with the philosophy, charter and/or mission statement of the forum and/or the 'establishment'. You (and anyone else) can do the naming-and-shaming, with or without the benefit of the reach and visibility offered by the most prominent Internet 'assets' for the particular/special/hobbyist interests. You have no say, no power, no entitlement to leverage the membership/subscriber numbers that someone else has built up over a number of years to suit your purposes and serve your values. Yes, any content you have contributed in the past may have been a factor in making them successful and well-known, but you'd already relinquished that freely, and those platforms and entities don't 'owe' you morally out of a sense of reciprocation, when you must also have already derived benefits from ongoing membership, and being able to see content and interact with fellow members in ways that would not have been available to you were you not a member and have not agreed to the terms of membership.

 

Would sure be nice to know who it is so I can avoid them in the future.

 

Nobody is stopping you from asking the O.P. in private, and leave it to him/her to either oblige or deny you satisfaction, without the forum's policy playing a part.

 

I know I am not allowed to mention the seller's eBay ID in a post, but I will cheerfully identify him to anyone who wants to know, via private message.

Edited October 27, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[Misfit]

I didn't want to put the name in the thread because I was afraid it would get the whole thread disappeared without discussion. Initial of seller ID is "w" for what that's worth.

 

As for disputing things on Paypal, when I look at my Paypal account it doesn't list any of the transactions from eBay. That doesn't seem right, but I've never had occasion to check it before. When I first started using eBay, I wonder if I accidentally created a separate Paypal account (there couldn't be two with the same email address could there?) I'm trying to resolve that now. I'm not that hopeful that Paypal will offer any relief, but they might be able to claw back the payment for a while, pending resolution.

 

 

Returning the pen to the seller for repair without opening an issue first is outside of eBay. So I have nothing to prove that I don't have the pen any more.

 

I checked my PayPal account, and it showed eBay purchases. I wonder why yours did not.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Misfit

[Estycollector]

My PP lists all purchases. I dont mean to disparage the OP, but this is not the first thread of complaint type. Transit times can be quite lengthy. Lots of information we do not have, or we only know one side of the story. Its best to let the buyer and seller work out their issues and use PP. if PP does not get an answer, the money will be refunded.

[joss]

I didn't want to put the name in the thread because I was afraid it would get the whole thread disappeared without discussion. Initial of seller ID is "w" for what that's worth.

 

As for disputing things on Paypal, when I look at my Paypal account it doesn't list any of the transactions from eBay. That doesn't seem right, but I've never had occasion to check it before. When I first started using eBay, I wonder if I accidentally created a separate Paypal account (there couldn't be two with the same email address could there?) I'm trying to resolve that now. I'm not that hopeful that Paypal will offer any relief, but they might be able to claw back the payment for a while, pending resolution.

 

Returning the pen to the seller for repair without opening an issue first is outside of eBay. So I have nothing to prove that I don't have the pen any more.

You correctly tried to solve the problem first with the seller and that didn't work out, in my opinion that is not an action outside Ebay. Your purchase is fully documented and if you communicated with the seller via the Ebay message board, then all these messages can be taken as evidence in your favour, proving that you agreed with the seller to return the pen for repair and that the seller confirmed receipt of the pen. It is important to know that you are protected by Paypal, not by Ebay. So my advise is to open a case via Paypal. I have done that several times, mainly due to pen items that arrived broken at my place (due to bad packaging and/or rude handling) and it was always resolved by a full refund.

 

Info on how to open a dispute via Paypal is found here.

 

You have to check 'activity' in your personal Paypal pages and look for the transaction that is connected with your purchase. Each Paypal transaction has a link to 'solving a problem' and that is where you start the dispute. The dispute starts by a Paypal supervised communication to the seller. The dispute can be upscaled within a few days to a claim, for instance if the seller refuses to respond or if you argue that you have already had an extensive communication with the seller to no avail.