Inks For A Vintage Pelikan

[Firecrest]

I have a Pelikan 140 winging it's way across Europe to me here in the UK. My question is what kind of ink would suit this pen? It's an ef so I'm guessing a wet ink, but then a vintage Pelikan is supposed to be quite a wet nib so maybe not a wet ink after all. And anyway, which inks are actually wet and dry. I was recently given some Edelstein Topaz which behaved very differently to hiw I thought it would. Quite pale in a Sailor 1911s with a medium nib, considerably paler than Ama Iro in an FB Loom. Both lovely inks but I thought the Edelstein would be darker and brighter. So would a Pelikan ink necessarily suit a 50+ year old Pelikan pen? Any thoughts?

[carola]

A Pelikan ink from the 4001 range should suit your pen nicely. A Pelikan Edelstein ink on the other hand... I wouldn´t put any of the Edelstein inks in my vintage pens.

 

Edelstein ink and modern Pelikans? Not a problem.

Edelstein ink and vintage Pelikans? When my pen repairer and vintage Pelikan specialist says "Please, don´t do that!" I simply don´t do it.

[sansenri]

I'd be surprised if Edelstein inks cause any problems even to vintage pens, they seem very safe inks to me, I use them regularly without any issues.

 

Depending on colour you want I'd probably start from Waterman Serenity on a 140, see how it behaves then see if it needs a wetter ink being an EF.

 

Edelstein inks are slightly dry, 4001 inks can be also rather dry, so with an EF you might need a slightly wetter ink to see a dark line.

Aurora blue and Visconti blue would also seem good to me on a vintage pen.

In any case although vintage consider that the 140 is a very tough pen.

[mana]

+1 for the Pelikan 4001 range... really, it is the gold standard that I measure other inks against, usually have Blue Black or Topaz in my pens. Currently it is the 4001 Blue Black both in a 400 and post war 100N and that is a more dry ink. Those vintage Pelikan nibs are indeed more generous or wet... the 400 has an F nib and while it is not gushy or anything I kind of wish for a more dry and fine line from it (that is a personal preference though).

 

I've also heard people say good things about and recommend Waterman's inks for vintage pens, never tried those but they do have the right pedigree... same goes for Diamine also (the non-glitter/shimmertastic inks, that is). I currently have Diamine Eau de Nil in one of my vintage Pelikans (500NN), it lays down a gorgeous double broad line.

 

140 should be pretty safe though as it has a barrel and piston seal both made out of modern synthetic materials (acrylic for the barrel and some elastomer or plastic for the piston seal). Vintage pens with cork seals... you need to be more careful with what ink you put in those, I reckon?

[Firecrest]

Would Diamine Aurora Borealis suit? I have a bottle of that that hasn't been used lately.

[inkstainedruth]

I'm surprised that you think a Pelikan EF nib would be "dry", Firecrest. My experience (with one vintage one, a few from the 1980s and 1990s, and a couple of modern ones) is that they ALL run on the wet side.

My first one was 1990s era M400, with an F nib (eBay purchase, and that's what it had). My original plan was to use it for drawing, only the ink I had planned to use was Iroshizuku Yama-guri. WAAAY to wet for the pen. You'd never know, even now, that the nib was an F because it's juicy and also a bit on the springy side. More recently, I got an M200 with an IM nib on it, and even with iron gall inks, that nib was a gusher. I had to have it tuned slightly, and even then it was wet. The only ink that nib really likes is 4001 Brilliant Black.

As for the two (modern) pens that have EF nibs? They're still wet enough that I haven't had a problem (the M405 striated blue likes Edelstein Tanzanite so much I hate to try another ink in it; the M600 Violet and White currently has diluted Akkerman Oost-Indigo (I was too lazy to flush it the other day, so I just refilled the pen with distilled water) and I'm having no issues with how the pen writes. I know that adding water to make an ink drier seems counterintuitive (it did to me as well), but that will actually control flow.

I see no reason for you to not use a Pelikan 4001 or Edelstein ink in the pen. The one caveat is that you may want to check on the condition of the piston seal (it may be old enough a pen that the seal is cork -- I'm not that familiar with the model) and you may not want to use red or brown ink in it, at least at first. I know if RonZ was in on this thread he'd be saying "Use 4001 Royal Blue!" (which is sort of a joke now in the local pen club -- Ron uses that 90% of the time, and when he gets "wild and crazy" he uses 4001 Brilliant Black.... Me, I just hate the color of 4001 Royal Blue, so when I have him repair pens for me I have to remember to ask him for the Brilliant Black when I'm then testing it....

My 1950s era 400 has an OB nib, on it, and it likes Brilliant Black a whole lot, BTW....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Firecrest]

Thank you. I'm learning a lot here. So, EF isn't automatically going to steer me towards wet inks especially if it's a vintage Pelikan. Sounds as though I should keep to drier ones, maybe the Topaz I recently acquired which in my Sailor 1911s is lovely though quite pale. It would be interesting to see its behaviour in what I would imagine to be an entirely different instrument.

[ENewton]

Thank you. I'm learning a lot here. So, EF isn't automatically going to steer me towards wet inks especially if it's a vintage Pelikan. Sounds as though I should keep to drier ones, maybe the Topaz I recently acquired which in my Sailor 1911s is lovely though quite pale. It would be interesting to see its behaviour in what I would imagine to be an entirely different instrument.

 

My Pelikan 140 EF is quite dry and benefits from a wet ink with good lubrication. So far it has worked best with Iroshizuku Kujaku.

[pearlfox]

I'd think Herbin would be safe as well.

[scratchofapen]

Considering that inks where far more aggressive back in those days i put almost everything in my vintage pens as long as the ink tends not to be difficult to clean out. For that reason pigmented inks are also forbidden. No problems so far caused by that...

[Honeybadgers]

I'd avoid hyper saturated or shimmer inks just because they're obnoxious to clean from piston fillers, not because I think they'd damage the 140.

 

Piston seals for 140's are cheap and readily available, so I honestly wouldn't worry about anything.

 

I've been using diamine registrars iron gall basically constantly in my vintage 400 BB. It has been completely unbothered with the "Serious" iron gall and the clarity of the barrel hasn't been impacted (it wasn't collector grade, so I wasn't worried to begin with, but if the pen was a serious collector quality with crystal barrel clarity I'd not use the registrars because it can leave a harmless but staining residue that's annoying to clean and requires mechanical agitation with a Q tip.)

 

Overall though, I agree with others. Drier inks are generally the smarter option, and even though I have well, well over 200 different bottles of ink, pelikan 4001 black and blue just always seems to be my everyday go-to for basically every pen I own.

[bayindirh]

I have a couple of first generation Pelikan 120s. I'd only use Waterman, Pelikan 4001 or Lamy (standard) inks in it. Maybe I'd try some Parkers if I feel adventurous.

 

I also have a couple of Pelikan m205 LEs (Olivine and Blue). I'd also hesitate to put any more saturated and modern inks in them. I may only add Edelsteins (eh, they're Edelstein matched LEs) to previous list.

 

So no Noodler's Diamines, Viscontis et.al.

 

Maybe, MontBlanc Royal Blue (which doesn't stain the converter of my FC ambition).

 

I feel safer trying more modern inks in more modern converter pens which I can completely tear apart (e.g. Lamy Safari). Then maybe I'd graduate them to higher end stuff.

[OMASsimo]

Pelikans of that period are really tough cookies and can swallow almost any ink. I wouldn’t use super saturated, pigmented, or glitter inks though. Like with most other brands of that era, there is quite a bit of variation from nib to nib. But what fascinates me with vintage Pelikan nibs is that they seem to work fine on all kinds of paper with all kinds of ink from dry to wet. I haven’t had any problems with 4001, Waterman, or Diamine. What works best will always depend on your individual nib.

[whych]

Pelikans of that period are really tough cookies and can swallow almost any ink. I wouldn’t use super saturated, pigmented, or glitter inks though. Like with most other brands of that era, there is quite a bit of variation from nib to nib. But what fascinates me with vintage Pelikan nibs is that they seem to work fine on all kinds of paper with all kinds of ink from dry to wet. I haven’t had any problems with 4001, Waterman, or Diamine. What works best will always depend on your individual nib.

I have used glitter inks in my old 140's without problems. Even super saturated inks are fine: it just takes longer to flush the pen after use.

Those old Pelikans, like most vintage pens, can drink almost any ink you care to throw at them. they are from an era when people seldom flushed a pen. When the pen ran dry, you filled it with whatever ink was available Usually blue or black. If you were in Germany, the chances are it was filled with vintage Pelikan Blue/Black, since this was the common ink of the time in Germany.

 

The only inks I would be weary of are Bay State Blue (because it stains everything) and the MB and other document inks. I found these leave a coloured residue behind when you flush the pen (easier to see when you use the ink in an M2XX say, where you have an ink window.)

[carlos.q]

One of the nicest features of vintage Pelikan pens like the 140 is their barrel transparency. Without the need of an ink window it is very easy to see how much ink you have in the pen. Having said that, I would not put any super saturated or pigmented ink that could potentially stain a vintage 140's barrel transparency.

 

I have seen Noodler's bulletproof black stain a converter and MB Permanent Blue stain a Pelikan M205 ink window. Based on these experiences I will only use very safe inks in my vintage Pelikans.

BTW, Edelstein Topaz is one of my favorite inks.

[OMASsimo]

I have used glitter inks in my old 140's without problems. Even super saturated inks are fine: it just takes longer to flush the pen after use.

Those old Pelikans, like most vintage pens, can drink almost any ink you care to throw at them. they are from an era when people seldom flushed a pen. When the pen ran dry, you filled it with whatever ink was available Usually blue or black. If you were in Germany, the chances are it was filled with vintage Pelikan Blue/Black, since this was the common ink of the time in Germany.

 

The only inks I would be weary of are Bay State Blue (because it stains everything) and the MB and other document inks. I found these leave a coloured residue behind when you flush the pen (easier to see when you use the ink in an M2XX say, where you have an ink window.)

I’m totally with you. My point was that I personally wouldn’t use them because of the hassle of cleaning. I use so many different pens and inks that it simply would be inconvenient. If I had a staining ink as my ultimate favourite, I could imagine sacrificing a dedicated 140 just to that ink.

[Ron Z]

I would be careful with the modern dye saturated inks, and alkaline inks. The earlier celluloids, especially pre-war German celluloid used in Pelikans, have a reputation for being fragile. David Nishimura says that he thinks they should have a "use by " date from the way that they decay and granulate. He knows his stuff....

 

I bought an early Pelikan in which Noodlers had been used. May have been BSB, but I don't know for sure. I saw some crazing inside and asked, and was told what had been use din the pen, but bought it anyway. I found that the damage was quite deep, and trying to remove the crazing would have changed the ID by quite a bit so seals would no longer fit, and success really wasn't likely no matter what I did. I gave up on the pen and put the good parts in the parts bins.

[mana]

I would be careful with the modern dye saturated inks, and alkaline inks. The earlier celluloids, especially pre-war German celluloid used in Pelikans, have a reputation for being fragile. David Nishimura says that he thinks they should have a "use by " date from the way that they decay and granulate. He knows his stuff....

I would tend to agree with this, celluloid of that age has a tendency of not aging well. I have had Pelikan 100 (x2) and IBIS (x1) with celluloid barrels that had aged to consistency of hard sugar. I mean, the barrels in those crumbled in my hands when I chipped away at them with a fingernail. One of the reasons why I do not buy them but have concentrated my efforts instead on post war acrylic barrel 100N, 101N, 400 etc.

 

[bunnspecial]

It's hard for me to imagine a safer ink to use in any pen other than a good, classic "washable" blue from one of the mainline manufacturers, including(but not limited to) Pelikan, Parker and Waterman. I tend toward Pelikan for wetter pens and Waterman for dryer pens, but it's also all in your preference as for what behaves well.

 

It seems like a lot of the unrestored older pens I come across spent a good part of their life digesting iron gall blue-blacks. I base this on having pens where a water took very little dried ink out of them, while adding a tiny bit of vinegar had them gushing dark blue ink like I'd were twisting the piston on a full reservoir. Without testing, it's probably not a stretch to think an old iron gall was more corrosive than a lot of the iron galls currently available.

 

Aside from the previously mentioned saturated, pigmented, and shimmer inks, I tend to be careful about where I put any ink that advises you to shake the bottle before inking your pen. If the manufacturer thinks that things can come out of solution while sitting on a shelf in the bottle, I worry about them doing the same in my pens. I try to let inks that advise that spend a minimum amount of time in any of my pens.

 

I find the advice about Edelstein inks interesting. I've primarily used Sapphire(although I have a few others) and to my eye it's somewhat less saturated than, say, Pelikan Royal Blue with the same pen/paper.