Comparative Costs Of Inks

[inkstainedruth]

It's ink. It's not like we're talking about a $3900 markup on heart medications.

Sad but true. A number of years ago, my husband's first cat developed a tumor in his jaw. The vet told us that if we knew someone going to Europe, we could get the same medication (which is also given to human patients, IIRC) for a fraction of what he was having to charge us.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[RJS]

The question in the OP remains: what do you get for the higher prices? I'm in the process of ordering from The Writing Desk. Pilot ink costs about 29 pounds for 50ml and Waterman and Diamine inks cost about 5 pounds for 50ml. Is Pilot ink worth six times the other inks?

I like Pilot inks a lot, and they make some of my favourites. I'd pick them over other brands generally, all things considered. But no, at the UK prices I wouldn't bother with Pilot Iroshizuku unless you have money to burn or really fancy a particular colour- they aren't super special in any way that suggests they should be the more expensive than almost every other premium brand. (Even if they cost £29 in Japan as well as England I wouldn't recommend them). If this is a hobby for you and the costs are insignificant, definitely just buy any inks at all regardless of cost, like some of the Montblanc limited editions that sell for double the price of the Iroshizuku.

 

By the way, you can't even buy Pilot BlueBlack in the UK from Pilot UK, except in cartridges, and that's arguably their "best" ink. My 'favourite' stationary company certainly have a detestable UK branch.

[Karmachanic]

By the way, you can't even buy Pilot BlueBlack in the UK from Pilot UK, except in cartridges,

 

 

Available but not directly from Pilot. 350ml for £25

https://choosingkeeping.com/collections/ink-bottles/products/pilot-350ml-fountain-pen-ink

[Shaggy]

I often see bashing of Iroshizuku inks as overpriced, nothing but marketing hype, all about the bottle, etc. And I occasionally see that criticism of Caran D'ache. But I rarely see the same criticism of Colorverse, which IMO is the worst offender from the custom bottle design, to the twee naming of colors, to the over-pricing. And last I checked, they were even more expensive per ml thank iro inks.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Shaggy

[Olya]

I often see bashing of Iroshizuku inks as overpriced, nothing but marketing hype, all about the bottle, etc. And I occasionally see that criticism of Caran D'ache. But I rarely see the same criticism of Colorverse, which IMO is the worst offender from the custom bottle design, to the twee naming of colors, to the over-pricing. And last I checked, they were even more expensive per ml thank iro inks.

That's a good point.

 

But I think people don't take Colorverse into account for multiple reasons.

For one, it's an expensive ink all over the word. So little discrepancy in pricing.

Further, all their inks are expensive. There's no "regular priced standard line" and a "vastly differently priced "lux" line" at the same time.

For another, Pilot is also a pen maker and their inks are seen as more standard and essential than a (new) boutique brand like Colorverse, who specialise in ink only.

Colorverse is also marketing their inks more extensively with names, packaging, colours and bottle design.

[RJS]

 

 

Available but not directly from Pilot. 350ml for £25

https://choosingkeeping.com/collections/ink-bottles/products/pilot-350ml-fountain-pen-ink

You can buy individual bottles from Japan for $17 USD, including shipping to the UK. Choosing Keeping making a tidy profit on each of these clearly!

[Karmachanic]

You can buy individual bottles from Japan for $17 USD, including shipping to the UK. Choosing Keeping making a tidy profit on each of these clearly!

 

350ml bottle? Link please.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Karmachanic

[RJS]

 

350ml bottle? Link please.

https://www.amazon.com/Ink-350ml-INK350BB-japan-import/dp/B001P35A74/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=pilot+350ml&qid=1602279359&sr=8-1

[RJS]

I often see bashing of Iroshizuku inks as overpriced, nothing but marketing hype, all about the bottle, etc. And I occasionally see that criticism of Caran D'ache. But I rarely see the same criticism of Colorverse, which IMO is the worst offender from the custom bottle design, to the twee naming of colors, to the over-pricing. And last I checked, they were even more expensive per ml thank iro inks.

Caran D'Ache inks: £24 for 50ml, Iro £29 for 50ml, Coloverse's fancier inks: £38.50 for 65ml+15ml. Iro's bottle and cap probably cost the least to produce of those three. Edited October 9, 2020 by RJS

[Karmachanic]

https://www.amazon.com/Ink-350ml-INK350BB-japan-import/dp/B001P35A74/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=pilot+350ml&qid=1602279359&sr=8-1

 

Thanks. Ordered. Arrival sometime in Nov.

[RJS]

Happy to help. I ordered a bottle from that seller last month and delivery was much faster than anticipated. Exceptional packaging too. I didn't have much at all left of that ink and it's been my go to for 30 years... I figure this bottle will last me a while. I read a suggestion on this forum to concentrate this ink by leaving some in a bottle with the lid off, so some of the water content would evaporate. I think I might use some to try that.

[Shaggy]

Caran D'Ache inks: £24 for 50ml, Iro £29 for 50ml, Coloverse's fancier inks: £38.50 for 65ml+15ml. Iro's bottle and cap probably cost the least to produce of those three.

These aren't the prices I'd pay in the US. Iro is the cheapest of the three for me.

 

Is your complaint only about UK pricing?

Edited October 9, 2020 by Shaggy

[Olya]

UK pricing for Iro inks wasn't the only crazy one. I've seen Iro inks priced at €50 in some EU shops years ago. The price has come down mostly since, but the inks remain at premium pricing.

 

I have read a few years ago that Pilot wanted (wants?) to establish themselves as luxury pen maker in Europe, which certainly explains pricing. Especially in the past. Pilot prices have (partially) become a little better.

 

 

 

Caran D'Ache inks: £24 for 50ml, Iro £29 for 50ml, Coloverse's fancier inks: £38.50 for 65ml+15ml. Iro's bottle and cap probably cost the least to produce of those three.

That, too. Colorverse are small and new, their production costs are higher than for Pilot.

[RJS]

These aren't the prices I'd pay in the US. Iro is the cheapest of the three for me.

 

Is your complaint only about UK pricing?

Regarding Iroshizuku ink: the problem with silly Pilot markups is worst in the UK from the looks of things. At >320% of the Japanese price it's rather offensive. There's no need for them to try to position themselves in England as far more premium than Montblanc (£29 Iro vs MB's main range of inks at £18). With the advent of this little known thing called the internet people learn what things cost in foreign countries.

[RJS]

The grey market concept seems to be unknown by the Pilot UK staff- if they were to officially laugh their high end pens here (they haven't yet), and tried to do so at Montblanc prices, everyone who did a cursory search for prices online would discover they could import the pens cheaper. Pricing their inks as the single most expensive range in the UK seems poorly thought through, because they don't carry the brand clout or cachet of the likes of Montblanc, let alone a far superior one.

[RJS]

In China, Pilot complete at the commodity end of the market with their regular inks, which I was buying there for about £2 a bottle. The school children from grade 3 up all had to write with fountain pens, and Pilot ink was the de facto standard if seemed.

[Intensity]

That's a good point.

 

But I think people don't take Colorverse into account for multiple reasons.

For one, it's an expensive ink all over the word. So little discrepancy in pricing.

Further, all their inks are expensive. There's no "regular priced standard line" and a "vastly differently priced "lux" line" at the same time.

For another, Pilot is also a pen maker and their inks are seen as more standard and essential than a (new) boutique brand like Colorverse, who specialise in ink only.

Colorverse is also marketing their inks more extensively with names, packaging, colours and bottle design.

 

Technically colorverse does have the cheaper more basic series: the 30ml inks like Joy in the Ordinary and Office series are not expensive. For example only $10.80 at penchalet : https://www.penchalet.com/ink_refills/fountain_pen_ink/colorverse_office_fountain_pen_ink.html

[I-am-not-really-here]

Regarding Iroshizuku ink: the problem with silly Pilot markups is worst in the UK from the looks of things. At >320% of the Japanese price it's rather offensive. There's no need for them to try to position themselves in England as far more premium than Montblanc (£29 Iro vs MB's main range of inks at £18). With the advent of this little known thing called the internet people learn what things cost in foreign countries.

Is Pilot marking up or is there a tariff that UK is imposing? Brexit forced trade agreements to be re-negotiated for example, some may still be in flux. I do not know for certain, just throwing it out there that there may be other forces at play.

[RJS]

I don't know if we'll negotiate a friendlier trade agreement before Brexit kicks in. At the moment there is a little duty that would have to be paid to import the ink from Japan, and VAT is higher here than Japanese consumption tax (20% rather than 10%)... add in shipping and handling costs and Pilot could probably sell the ink for £11 a bottle in the UK if they wished, whilst retaining the same profit margin as in Japan. (Assuming Japanese shops take similar margins to UK shops... anyone know?)

[RJS]

One thought... that doesn't take into account the effort the Pilot reps must make trying to peddle their products to retailers in England... let's be generous and say £11.50 a bottle instead.