What Are The "flagship" Inks Of Each Maker?

[arcfide]

I was thinking about the "boring" inks and thinking about the categorization of inks in general. The question arose in my head about the "dependable" inks in each maker's lineup. Then that got me to thinking, what would we call the "flagship" ink of each ink maker? I've put together a little list of some makers here and arranged them based on what I think could be argued as their flagship ink. I'd welcome some discussion on whether I'm off on these selections, and even on the definition of flagship.

 

In my case, a flagship pen is often the big, somewhat flashy, standard production pen. The biggest, or the most well known, or something along those lines. In the case of inks, I'm taking a slightly different view. I'd consider the more flashy, expensive inks to be more boutique in nature, and therefore unlikely to be most "representative" of the maker. Instead, I'd consider as a flagship ink the ink that is most "essential" to the maker, and least superfluous. It's the ink that might be considered to have the most generality, most utility, or be most trusted. It might also, by virtue of its good properties, be most popular. To try to tease this out with manufacturers, I generally asked these questions:

 

* How generally appropriate is the ink (is it a "boring" ink?)

* How water resistant is it?

* How popular is it?

* How big an effect on the maker does it have?

* How uniquely associated or representative is it of the brand's features?

* If the brand also includes fountain pens, is the ink included with pens by default?

* Is it part of a standard production line and widely available, or is it advertised as a more boutique or specialist/exclusive ink?

 

in this case, I tried to put together a list, and restricted myself to mostly brands with both pens and inks. The ink also had to be available as bottled ink, not just as cartridges. In most cases, there was clearly a "default" ink that they included with their pens, and that strongly weighted my view in favor of the default inks, as I consider that the ink must be considered with some reasonable importance relative to the brand given its potential "first impact" effect on the users of the brand's pens if the ink is included by default. However, in some cases, this default wasn't as clear, and in those cases, I tended to weigh my view either on the basis of popularity or water resistance, under the assumption that the brand would be more likely to retain a more generally useful ink, and those that have more water resistance (assuming other things are equal) will generally have a slightly greater utility to most people, especially given the historically significant marketing power of permanent and water resistant inks throughout pen history. However, even in this case, there were some cases where it just wasn't that obvious which I might pick, and I'm not sure. I'd love feedback on these as well as the other choices.

 

So, here's my basic list as I see it right now:

 

Aurora Blue. Blue ships with the pens, and most makers seem to default to a blue, but black is well known among the black inks out there, so this one is a little hard

 

Caran d'Ache Idyllic Blue. Ships by default.

 

Diamine Registrar's Ink. Availabe in large 100ml bottles, has a good reputation, popular, and represents a fairly unique offering that gets a lot of press. Stands out among their other inks and offerings.

 

Faber-Castell Royal Blue. Ships by default.

 

Kaweco Royal Blue: Ships by default.

 

Lamy Blue. Another easy answer, IMO. They test their pens with Lamy Blue, include the ink by default, and overall the Lamy Blue appears prominently for the brand.

 

Montblanc Mystery Black or Royal Blue? Not sure here, does MB even include cartridges by default in their C/C pens? I think in most of the boutiques I've visited, when I purchased a pen, I just picked up the ink of my choice at the same time. I think MB used to include a bottle of ink, but I'm not sure what that ink was, or if it was standardized. Seems to me that the Mystery Black or the Royal Blue would be the standards here.

 

Montegrappa Black: Ships by default.

 

Monteverde Midnight Black or Horizon Blue? Another one that I'm not sure about, for much the same reasons as the Pelikan case.

 

Noodler's Black. Duh.

 

Parker Quink Black. Ships by default as far as I can tell, but I don't know enough about this historic ink brand to know whether the blue, blue black, or black is really more flagship.

 

Pelikan Brilliant Black or Royal Blue? I don't really know here. Pelikan doesn't appear to ship their pens with ink by default, and neither the black or blue is exceptionally water resistant. They are both well regarded and popular inks, it seems. In this case, I'm inclined to go with black as the more water resistant one, but given the prevalence of blue ink as a "standard," I think an argument could be made in favor of the blue, so I really don't have a good way to differentiate these two in this case, as well as not being familiar enough with the Pelikan brand. Was one released before the other?

 

Pilot Namiki Blue. Ships by default in their "flagship" pens, is widely available, is among their water resistant inks, and doesn't carry the same boutique aura of the Iroshizuku line.

 

Platinum Blue Black. This is their default ink and ships with their pens, but also features very prominently in their literature and is even called "flagship" by them. Very hard to argue in favor of anything else.

 

Sailor Black. Sailor has a standard ink line, but appears to be one of the few makers that ships black ink by default with their pens. They're well known for their pigmented ink line, but I think the argument would be made that those are more specialist inks.

 

TWSBI Blue Black. TWSBI doesn't appear to include an ink by default, and they market their standard line of inks for all the same basic price. In this case, the "unique" offering out of the bunch that gives TWSBI some weight would be their IG blue black ink, which makes it relatively rare among pen makers, so I go for that one.

 

Visconti Black. This one gets the nod simply because Visconti appears to include black by default over their blue.

 

Waldmann Blue. Ships by default.

 

Waterman Serenity Blue. Ships by default. People seem to recognize it as a standard reference. Even people who don't like it per se will still have a bottle to compare against. Sometimes even those who don't (like me) will use it to compare against.

 

 

 

My observations after making this list for myself is that it seems to me that Blue is the "flagship" color more often than not, and that most fountain pen manufacturers do not emphasize a waterproof or water resistant ink lineup. Almost none of these manufacturers have IG ink these days, and very few have truly permanent inks (pigmented). For a lot of these inks, I'd question just how "prominent" they are among the competition, but there are definitely some of the more "well known" inks among that line up.

 

So what did I get wrong or right here? :-)

[shostakovich]

De Atramentis document ink - blue or dark blue. Waterproof, fade proof.

[A Smug Dill]

Aurora Blue. Blue ships with the pens, and most makers seem to default to a blue, but black is well known among the black inks out there, so this one is a little hard

I'm pretty sure my multiple variants of Aurora 8'88 (i.e. "limited edition" planet-themed Ottantotto models coming out on a yearly basis) were shipped with small bottles of Aurora Black and not Aurora Blue... not that I've opened any of those bottles. (They all still shrink-wrapped and sitting inside the retail boxes shoved somewhere under the guest bed.)

 

Diamine Registrar's Ink. Availabe in large 100ml bottles, has a good reputation, popular, and represents a fairly unique offering that gets a lot of press. Stands out among their other inks and offerings.

I'd say that's as much a 'specialist' ink in Diamine's range, as Kiwaguro is in Sailor's range. Being available in 100ml bottles is neither here nor there, when the 'standard' Diamine bottle is the 80ml glass bottle with the square footprint.

 

Faber-Castell Royal Blue. Ships by default.

 

Kaweco Royal Blue: Ships by default.

 

Lamy Blue. Another easy answer, IMO. They test their pens with Lamy Blue, include the ink by default, and overall the Lamy Blue appears prominently for the brand.

 

Montblanc Mystery Black or Royal Blue? Not sure here, does MB even include cartridges by default in their C/C pens? I think in most of the boutiques I've visited, when I purchased a pen, I just picked up the ink of my choice at the same time. I think MB used to include a bottle of ink, but I'm not sure what that ink was, or if it was standardized. Seems to me that the Mystery Black or the Royal Blue would be the standards here.

 

Montegrappa Black: Ships by default.

 

Monteverde Midnight Black or Horizon Blue? Another one that I'm not sure about, for much the same reasons as the Pelikan case.

 

Noodler's Black. Duh.

 

Parker Quink Black. Ships by default as far as I can tell, but I don't know enough about this historic ink brand to know whether the blue, blue black, or black is really more flagship.

 

Pelikan Brilliant Black or Royal Blue? I don't really know here. Pelikan doesn't appear to ship their pens with ink by default, and neither the black or blue is exceptionally water resistant. They are both well regarded and popular inks, it seems. In this case, I'm inclined to go with black as the more water resistant one, but given the prevalence of blue ink as a "standard,"

So why not Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black? It doesn't matter how difficult that may be to get in the US because of local restrictions(?) against import of iron-gall inks, if we're talking about the brand's flagship with no regard for any particular foreign market outside Germany (or the EU).

 

I'll note that only Pelikan's Royal Blue is available also as a more expensive retail product simply on account of having a 'vintage' label.

 

Pilot Namiki Blue. Ships by default in their "flagship" pens, is widely available, is among their water resistant inks, and doesn't carry the same boutique aura of the Iroshizuku line.

I'm pretty sure I got a bottle of black ink inside the fancy box of my Pilot 'Hannya Shingyo' pen, and that's the equal-second most expensive pen in Pilot's regular line-up of fountain pens. (Pilot Custom 745 and Custom Enju are half its price, at least by MSRP.)

[arcfide]

I'm pretty sure my multiple variants of Aurora 8'88 (i.e. "limited edition" planet-themed Ottantotto models coming out on a yearly basis) were shipped with small bottles of Aurora Black and not Aurora Blue... not that I've opened any of those bottles. (They all still shrink-wrapped and sitting inside the retail boxes shoved somewhere under the guest bed.)

 

I'd say that's as much a 'specialist' ink in Diamine's range, as Kiwaguro is in Sailor's range. Being available in 100ml bottles is neither here nor there, when the 'standard' Diamine bottle is the 80ml glass bottle with the square footprint.

 

So why not Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black? It doesn't matter how difficult that may be to get in the US because of local restrictions(?) against import of iron-gall inks, if we're talking about the brand's flagship with no regard for any particular foreign market outside Germany (or the EU).

 

I'll note that only Pelikan's Royal Blue is available also as a more expensive retail product simply on account of having a 'vintage' label.

 

I'm pretty sure I got a bottle of black ink inside the fancy box of my Pilot 'Hannya Shingyo' pen, and that's the equal-second most expensive pen in Pilot's regular line-up of fountain pens. (Pilot Custom 745 and Custom Enju are half its price, at least by MSRP.)

 

Thanks for the information about Aurora, I was going by what I could find documented about the standard color cartridges included in their standard line of pens. It's good to know that they might use different colors for other editions. If that's the case, I think it's probably a toss up to me whether Black or Blue is the "flagship," maybe both?

 

Point taken about the Diamine Registrar's as it probably is more a specialist ink like Kiwaguru. Given that Diamine is primarily an ink maker, I didn't really see what I could deem a flagship from them other than Registrar's. Would you have a suggestion for one? I don't know enough about Diamine to be able to judge very well.

 

I wasn't adequately aware of the Pelikan Blue Black, but I think that ink makes a strong case for itself to be a flagship, though I admit that the existence of a vintage label in my eyes does also lend credence to Royal Blue. Given the existence of Blue Black though and it being iron gall, I'd say that takes the Brilliant Black out of the running, IMO.

 

Thanks for highlighting the Pilot Hannya Shingyo. I was thinking in particular of the Namiki Emperor coming with, by the accounts I've seen, Namiki Blue ink.

[A Smug Dill]

Given that Diamine is primarily an ink maker, I didn't really see what I could deem a flagship from them other than Registrar's. Would you have a suggestion for one? I don't know enough about Diamine to be able to judge very well.

Diamine does have a (non-iron-gall) Blue-Black ink in its 'standard' range without a fancy name, as well as a Royal Blue ink^†. The impression I got from my time on FPN is that Oxford Blue and Majestic Blue seem to get the most love here, bearing in mind we're a minority that isn't representative of fountain pen users and/or Diamine product customers at large.

 

^† According to Diamine, "Royal Blue : This ink was used on April 2010 by Presidents Obama/Medvedev in the signing of the nuclear arms treaty at Prague Castel."

[Mercian]

This is an interesting question, and one whose parameters are somewhat slippery!

My own take on ‘flagship’ ink would also not necessarily be the most-expensive ink that is produced by the manufacturer, but is instead the ink of which I immediately think when hearing the company’s name in the context of ink. This might perhaps be the company’s most-well-known ink, or it might be whatever I consider to be the company’s ‘best’ ink.

There is still a large overlap between my list and that of arcfide, but there are also some instances in which my list differs:

Parker:
I grew up in the UK. The ink that was totally predominant amongst fountain pen users throughout my childhood is Parker Quink ‘Washable Blue’. It ships as standard with their pens. It is (was?) the UK equivalent of Pelikan 4001 Königsblau in Germany. But it’s not the ink that springs to my mind when I think ‘Parker’ and ‘ink’.
That would be the long-discontinued Parker Penman Sapphire. I know, I know - how can it be their ‘flagship’ ink when they no longer make it? Objectively, it very clearly can’t be!

Of the inks that they do still make, I would nominate the ‘Washable Blue’ Quink, because of its ubiquity. Even though I personally far prefer Quink ‘Blue’, and think that to be a ‘better’ ink than the ‘Washable Blue’ Quink.

Still, in the empty desert of wind-tossed Nonsense that passes for my ‘mind’, Penman Sapphire will always be Parker’s ‘flagship’ ink.

I encountered it in 2000 or 2001. Because I was afraid to commit to buying a full bottle of this ‘newfangled’ and ‘fancy’ ink ‘sight-unseen’, I ‘sampled’ it by buying a box of five cartridges of it. When I eventually tried it - after having first played with Emerald, Ruby, and Mocha - to my great surprise I liked the ink so much that I ran all of the cartridges of Sapphire through my pen one after the other. Not even the other Penman inks got a look-in. I figured that it was a Parker ink, and so would ‘obviously’ be available for ever. When I went back to the store to buy myself a full bottle of it, there it was, gone

Pelikan:
Although their Königsblau is ubiquitous and ships as standard with all Pelikan’s school pens, it is not the ink that springs to my mind when I think of Pelikan ink. I think of 4001 Blue-black. Even though I’ve never personally used it
This is perhaps attributable to constant subliminal endorsement whenever I see a post on FPN by TheGoodCaptain. But this ink is often hailed on FPN as a superb blue-black; water-resistant, reliable, easy to clean out, inexpensive. And, in Europe at least, it is available almost everywhere. Perhaps the blue-black ink against which all other blue-black inks ought to be measured.

Pilot:
Again, I don’t think of any of the famous Iroshizukus, or of Namiki Blue. I think of Pilot’s Blue/black. Its colour is more of a flat ‘dark blue’ than it is a ‘blue-black’, but it is superb. It is water resistant, it writes smoothly, behaves beautifully on poor paper as well as on good paper, and in much of the world it is cheap and easily available. Even in 350ml bottles! It is perhaps the best ink available for university students.
So I am highly annoyed that Pilot’s official distributor in the UK refuses to let us buy it, except in the proprietary cartridges that don’t even fit in the version of the MR that they sell here, and which (despite what the distributor suggested to me when I contacted them to complain about its unavailability) cannot be used in Pilot’s piston-filled pens. Gah!

Visconti:

For me, their flagship ink is not their Black. It is their Blue. The version that they sell in bottles. I have seen lots of compliments for that ink on here. A vibrant and serious dark blue ink. Beautiful, yet also ‘business-appropriate’. So I bought some cartridges of it to try it out. To my horror, I found out that the stuff in the cartridges is a different ink - the stuff in the cartridges is a ‘washable blue’. After that debacle I did more-thorough research on any ink that I fancied. I eventually bought a bottle of Parker Quink ‘Blue’, and found that it I really like it. So I’ve never personally got around to trying the bottled version of Visconti Blue. But it remains the ink that springs immediately to my mind when I think of the company.

 

I admit that my ‘reasoning’ in the cases above is inconsistent, and thus serves only to identify me as the addlepated fool that I surely am, but there you have it

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mercian

[arcfide]

 

I admit that my ‘reasoning’ in the cases above is inconsistent, and thus serves only to identify me as the addlepated fool that I surely am, but there you have it

 

Well, I think "flagship" for an ink, except in the case of a few makers, is probably a little subjective anyways, so it's hard to fault your "logic" in this case. I think you make good points on those inks.

[RJS]

Pilot:

Again, I don’t think of any of the famous Iroshizukus, or of Namiki Blue. I think of Pilot’s Blue/black. Its colour is more of a flat ‘dark blue’ than it is a ‘blue-black’, but it is superb. It is water resistant, it writes smoothly, behaves beautifully on poor paper as well as on good paper, and in much of the world it is cheap and easily available. Even in 350ml bottles! It is perhaps the best ink available for university students.

So I am highly annoyed that Pilot’s official distributor in the UK refuses to let us buy it, except in the proprietary cartridges that don’t even fit in the version of the MR that they sell here, and which (despite what the distributor suggested to me when I contacted them to complain about its unavailability) cannot be used in Pilot’s piston-filled pens. Gah!

 

I saw an advert on TV today for Pilot pens, and it reminded me how much I dislike their UK distributer. Like you, I grew up in the UK, lived abroad (the far East) and I'm now back once again. The UK distributer clearly hates fountain pen users- none of the standard inks available in bottled form, and a 100% markup on Japanese/Chinese prices (seemingly identical in both markets) for the other bottled inks and the fountain pens available. The last bottle of Pilot BB I purchase abroad was in China and it cost only 2 or 3 pounds. I regret not buying a Custom 823 out there. Even Lamy pens (not the knock offs) are nearly half the UK price...

 

 

 

Parker:

I grew up in the UK. The ink that was totally predominant amongst fountain pen users throughout my childhood is Parker Quink ‘Washable Blue’. It ships as standard with their pens. It is (was?) the UK equivalent of Pelikan 4001 Königsblau in Germany. But it’s not the ink that springs to my mind when I think ‘Parker’ and ‘ink’.

That would be the long-discontinued Parker Penman Sapphire. I know, I know - how can it be their ‘flagship’ ink when they no longer make it? Objectively, it very clearly can’t be!

 

I don't know what version of Quink I would have had circa 1990, but I'd been using it for school. It was around that time I compared it to Pilot BB, and I've avoided Parker ink ever since as it looked so washed out and watered down in comparison.

 

 

Visconti:

For me, their flagship ink is not their Black. It is their Blue. The version that they sell in bottles. I have seen lots of compliments for that ink on here. A vibrant and serious dark blue ink. Beautiful, yet also ‘business-appropriate’. So I bought some cartridges of it to try it out. To my horror, I found out that the stuff in the cartridges is a different ink - the stuff in the cartridges is a ‘washable blue’. After that debacle I did more-thorough research on any ink that I fancied. I eventually bought a bottle of Parker Quink ‘Blue’, and found that it I really like it. So I’ve never personally got around to trying the bottled version of Visconti Blue. But it remains the ink that springs immediately to my mind when I think of the company.

 

I agree that their blue is their flagship, not the black. It is a really great ink, and I'd recommend you buy a bottle, especially as it is very affordable.

[arcfide]

Seems like there is some consensus that Pilot Blue Black, Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, and Visconti Blue are more appropriate flagships for each line, and maybe Washable Blue for the Parker Quink line?

[aurore]

Waterman Serenity Blue (Florida Blue). You might love or hate this ink, but it's legendary and 1st one that comes to mind with Waterman - for many generations.

Aurora Black. No doubt. While some love Aurora Blue (I do not, it behaves perfectly but the colour is a bit dull, particularly for the price).

Edited September 24, 2020 by aurore

[A Smug Dill]

I'd consider as a flagship ink the ink that is most "essential" to the maker, and least superfluous. It's the ink that might be considered to have the most generality, most utility, or be most trusted. It might also, by virtue of its good properties, be most popular.

Seems like there is some consensus that Pilot Blue Black, Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, and Visconti Blue are more appropriate flagships for each line,

 

I dunno. I get the impression of that saying Visconti Blue is the flagship ink, because some users (especially those around here who are motivated to discuss such things or even geek out, as opposed to just buy a fountain pen, use it to write, and get on with what else needs to be done) passionately adore its richness in colour, sheen and all that, is like saying Parker Penman Sapphire was the flagship Parker ink back in the day, ahead of Parker Quink (black, blue, or whichever colour) or even Parker Penman Ebony. I read a few reviews before I pulled the trigger to get my first bottle of Visconti Blue recently, and I vaguely recall not everyone (including those who love the presentation of the ink) think its the quintessential low-maintenance business-/general-purpose ink in Visconti's product range.

[aurore]

 

I dunno. I get the impression of that saying Visconti Blue is the flagship ink, because some users (especially those around here who are motivated to discuss such things or even geek out, as opposed to just buy a fountain pen, use it to write, and get on with what else needs to be done) passionately adore its richness in colour, sheen and all that, is like saying Parker Penman Sapphire was the flagship Parker ink back in the day, ahead of Parker Quink (black, blue, or whichever colour) or even Parker Penman Ebony. I read a few reviews before I pulled the trigger to get my first bottle of Visconti Blue recently, and I vaguely recall not everyone (including those who love the presentation of the ink) think its the quintessential low-maintenance business-/general-purpose ink in Visconti's product range.

 

Perhaps the "flagship ink" itself is such a vague and meaningless term that any argumentation will always lead to a quasi-demagogical pointless and neverending discussion.

 

In my opinion there are only 2 categories which can be cosidered as "flagship": 1) best known, 2) best quality.

The 2nd category is very subjective which is reflected in your reaction above. So I would stick to best-known. Not quite objective? Well, indeed. Then suggest another approach.

 

Anyway, applied to Visconti: regardless whether you love it or not and whether it is quintessential or not, if you ask 100 people which Visconti ink would they pick up if the could have just one, at least 80 would respond blue - some because they love, some because this ink is famous. Very few would choose sepia/brown or turquoise and almost nobody black. So for me it is the flagship ink of the brand. Is it fair? Perhaps not. So is the whole idea of defining "flagship" inks (that said relating "flagship" and what comes with the pens of the brand is a very awkward idea).

Edited September 24, 2020 by aurore

[arcfide]

 

Perhaps the "flagship ink" itself is such a vague and meaningless term that any argumentation will always lead to a quasi-demagogical pointless and neverending discussion.

 

In my opinion there are only 2 categories which can be cosidered as "flagship": 1) best known, 2) best quality.

The 2nd category is very subjective which is reflected in your reaction above. So I would stick to best-known. Not quite objective? Well, indeed. Then suggest another approach.

 

Anyway, applied to Visconti: regardless whether you love it or not and whether it is quintessential or not, if you ask 100 people which Visconti ink would they pick up if the could have just one, at least 80 would respond blue - some because they love, some because this ink is famous. Very few would choose sepia/brown or turquoise and almost nobody black. So for me it is the flagship ink of the brand. Is it fair? Perhaps not. So is the whole idea of defining "flagship" inks (that said relating "flagship" and what comes with the pens of the brand is a very awkward idea).

 

Being subjective, awkward, and open to interpretation and likely to result in never ending discussion? Sounds like a good forum topic to me. ;-)

 

Anyways, I want to inject one more potential "criteria" here. We could ask not only what the users would pick up, but also what inks the company would "discontinue" last. That's not a fullproof metric, but it is an informative one. If a product is "brand identifying" enough, then the company will be less likely to remove it from their production lines, provided that it is *also* profitable and desirable enough from their point of view as well. We can't ask the companies directly, but we can at least interpret or empathize with them a little and try to think like they might think to speculate on what they might consider their flagship.

 

I do think that "Best quality" isn't the best metric here, whereas best known is probably a decent one, though I obviously weight the "default" or "shipped with" inks higher on this scale as that ink is likely to have a wide impact/reach. It's also true that a flagship ink might not be the most loved (Park Quink being a good example I think, versus their Penman Sapphire).

 

Noodler's is a fun case, because I think you'd have to argue that Noodler's Black is the flagship, but perhaps their most "infamous" ink would have to be Baystate Blue, and that's also one that Nathan himself has said represents the brand to a very high degree for him, personally, due to its symbolic stance on user freedom and choice of inks over "constraints" imposed by the pen makers.

[mana]

Pelikan? Most definitely the 4001 Blue Black.

[aurore]

 

Being subjective, awkward, and open to interpretation and likely to result in never ending discussion? Sounds like a good forum topic to me. ;-)

 

Anyways, I want to inject one more potential "criteria" here. We could ask not only what the users would pick up, but also what inks the company would "discontinue" last. That's not a fullproof metric, but it is an informative one. If a product is "brand identifying" enough, then the company will be less likely to remove it from their production lines, provided that it is *also* profitable and desirable enough from their point of view as well. We can't ask the companies directly, but we can at least interpret or empathize with them a little and try to think like they might think to speculate on what they might consider their flagship.

 

I do think that "Best quality" isn't the best metric here, whereas best known is probably a decent one, though I obviously weight the "default" or "shipped with" inks higher on this scale as that ink is likely to have a wide impact/reach. It's also true that a flagship ink might not be the most loved (Park Quink being a good example I think, versus their Penman Sapphire).

 

Noodler's is a fun case, because I think you'd have to argue that Noodler's Black is the flagship, but perhaps their most "infamous" ink would have to be Baystate Blue, and that's also one that Nathan himself has said represents the brand to a very high degree for him, personally, due to its symbolic stance on user freedom and choice of inks over "constraints" imposed by the pen makers.

 

Being subjective, choosing awkward criteria (sorry, the fact a company puts some ink for free with pens has nothing to do with being a flagship thus I called it an awkward criterion, which is on the other hand just my subjective opinion, isn't it ) and to interprete anything in many ways is perfectly fine. However in this case it will never lead anywhere. To cut the long story short it is impossible to get a reasonable answer to a very vague question.

 

What a company would discontinue last is also very vague. Some companies (such as the mentioned Noodler's) bring new inks and discontinue some older while keeping the other older. That said those older inks are often not quite as they used to be (the formulas is not that precise). Some companies "discontinue" inks all the time by renaming them (De Atramentis). Some companies just rename all the inks for no reason (Waterman) and then even change some formulas (their "Mysterious" blue-black) while keeping the others, while for instance Parker Quinck inks are now clones of the current Waterman.

Sailor does all of the above and more - the discontinue and introduce, they rename and then bring the older names back, the change the bottles volume while keeping the price tag. For instance recently their Manyo line has got one ink which is a 95% clone of rikyu-cha (which is still made being more expensive).

Moreover as for Visconti, most probably they will never ever discontinue their Blue, Black and Turqouise. So which one is the flagship?

Edited September 24, 2020 by aurore

[Estycollector]

Not at all surpised that Waterman has been mentioned several times.

[RJS]

Generally I'd argue that each maker's flagship would be their primary blue (or blue black). Harder to list for manufacturers like Diamine and Noodler's who sell a plethora of "regular" blues and dark blues/blue blacks.

[silverlifter]

We could ask not only what the users would pick up, but also what inks the company would "discontinue" last.

 

That's an easy one to answer¹: their most profitable!

 

^{1. For the companies, not consumers.}

 

Given a flagship was the ship bearing the admiral's flag, it suggests that it is a title bestowed by the bearer.

 

Ultimately, though, while this is an enjoyable conversation, it is based on a category error. There are no "flagship" inks, there are popular inks, inks which have accrued a certain gravitas (Serenity Blue amongst restorers and nibsmiths) or notorious inks (BSB), or those that just attract diehard fans (DRI).

[arcfide]

 

Ultimately, though, while this is an enjoyable conversation, it is based on a category error. There are no "flagship" inks, there are popular inks, inks which have accrued a certain gravitas (Serenity Blue amongst restorers and nibsmiths) or notorious inks (BSB), or those that just attract diehard fans (DRI).

 

I disagree there. While it might be debatable, in some cases, more than others, there is a clear flagship ink. Some companies will even use the term flagship to refer to a specific ink in their lineup.

[arcfide]

 

Being subjective, choosing awkward criteria (sorry, the fact a company puts some ink for free with pens has nothing to do with being a flagship thus I called it an awkward criterion, which is on the other hand just my subjective opinion, isn't it ) and to interprete anything in many ways is perfectly fine. However in this case it will never lead anywhere. To cut the long story short it is impossible to get a reasonable answer to a very vague question.

 

What a company would discontinue last is also very vague. Some companies (such as the mentioned Noodler's) bring new inks and discontinue some older while keeping the other older. That said those older inks are often not quite as they used to be (the formulas is not that precise). Some companies "discontinue" inks all the time by renaming them (De Atramentis). Some companies just rename all the inks for no reason (Waterman) and then even change some formulas (their "Mysterious" blue-black) while keeping the others, while for instance Parker Quinck inks are now clones of the current Waterman.

Sailor does all of the above and more - the discontinue and introduce, they rename and then bring the older names back, the change the bottles volume while keeping the price tag. For instance recently their Manyo line has got one ink which is a 95% clone of rikyu-cha (which is still made being more expensive).

Moreover as for Visconti, most probably they will never ever discontinue their Blue, Black and Turqouise. So which one is the flagship?

 

Well, the point isn't to have a clear black and white answer, it's always going to be a shade of color. (*snicker*). Because it's an imprecise domain, it's more reasonable to be thinking in terms of probabilities and weightages and statistics than a specific yes or no. In other words, if we examined, quantified, and then weighted all the data, we would get a percentage of "flagship"-ness for every ink in a maker's lineup. Some inks might have low values, such as in the 10% range, while others might be very high, say, 90% of the "flagship"-ness qualities. For most makers, I suspect that there are certain inks that would be much higher percentage than others, and a very small group that would be the absolutely most high, and often just a single one.

 

In some cases, you could argue that you couldn't really pick between a set of two or three very good choices, but you also wouldn't decide just on a single criteria. For instance, the criterion of whether or not an ink is more or less likely to be discontinued is not a categorical property of a flagship ink, it's just that inks which are less likely to be discontinued are more likely to fit the idea of a "flagship" ink than inks which are more likely to be discontinued. That doesn't mean that the category of "discontinuability" is a 100% predictor of the category of flagship-ness. They are just correlated at some level. So if you combine enough of these correlated factors, when they are combined, they will yield high confidence levels in certain inks being "flagship" inks. So, in the case, as you give, for Visconti, while Blue, Black, and Turquoise might all be (for the sake of argument) equally likely to be discontinued, they are not all equally weighted/scored in other categories such as popularity, image, presence, and impact.

 

The reason that I included whether or not an ink is included by default by a manufacturer is because including an ink by default with your pens is a potentially high impact decision. Choose a poor or too drastic ink and you are likely to alienate customers. You wouldn't just pick any ink to include in your pens by default. You would pick on that is most likely to result in a favorable experience to the customer, while at the same time not unnecessarily costing you more than the favorable experience is worth. This is a pretty good match to the types of things we might consider when considering an ink in general, because a flagship ink (as opposed, in my view) to a flagship pen, cannot be too niche, either in price or properties. Thus, whether or not an ink is included by default by the maker of a pen can serve as a proxy measure of the company's view of that ink and its suitability to represent the brand. It's not the only criteria, but in many cases, it might be the only criteria that really might weight one ink over another when other factors that might weigh more heavily don't apply or don't differentiate candidates clearly in a specific case.

 

And I think, for me, personally, it has already lead somewhere, as people have provided new insights and different perspectives and data to refine the results, and test or strain the criteria by asking whether or not the measures accurately represent what a "flagship" ink really is. I like that.