Suggestions For A True Fine

[bunnspecial]

As I've evolved through my FP preferences over the last 10 years or so, I've gone from fines, which my early preference(going off what I considered the best pen I'd used prior-the Pilot V5) to mostly setting on mediums and the occasional broad. Most of my daily writers are mediums, although I still use some particularly interesting fines here and there(like one really nicely springy steel Pelikan).

 

At the same time, though, some situations call for a true fine line, and preferably with no or minimal flex.

 

With that said, my tastes have also changed, and I'm looking for what may be a unicorn, but I figured I'd at least try.

 

Here's what I'm looking for in this particular selection:

 

1. As I said, true F, or even EF might be okay

 

2. Smooth and wet-a lot of the reason why I gave up on fines at the time was because a lot I bought seemed to be dry and/or scratchy

 

3. Fairly stiff is preferred, but a bit of flex is okay

 

4. Prefer gold, but good steel is fine too.

 

5. Strong preference for piston filler, but converter is okay.

 

It seems that Japanese pens often get praised for their fine nibs, so I'm thinking of maybe a Pilot Vanishing Point. It suits the situations where I'd want a fine anyway(i.e. note taking or other situations where I'm frequently laying down the pen and where paper space is at a premium) even though I know it's a C/C pen.

 

Can anyone else provide viable suggestions? Bonus points for something that hits all 5 points above...

[hari317]

Pilot Ch92.

[bunnspecial]

Oh wow-that does hit all the boxes assuming the Pilot fine/EFs are as good as everyone says.

 

The only potential downside is I'm not wild about demonstrators, and that's all I see at Goulet. Does it come in a non-demonstrator?

[langere]

I suggest a Sailor Realo. It fits all of your criteria, including piston filler. The "F" nib on a Realo is very precise and has good flow.

 

Erick

[goodpens]

Lamy 2000 EF

[Paul-in-SF]

Oh wow-that does hit all the boxes assuming the Pilot fine/EFs are as good as everyone says.

 

The only potential downside is I'm not wild about demonstrators, and that's all I see at Goulet. Does it come in a non-demonstrator?

I've seen translucent blue and "transparent black." I haven't seen the latter in person, but in photos it appears very dark but still a little translucent. I really love my clear one, it's just about perfect in every way.

 

I suggest a Sailor Realo. It fits all of your criteria, including piston filler. The "F" nib on a Realo is very precise and has good flow.

 

Erick

There are two styles here, Realo Pro Gear and Realo 1911. Both are piston fillers, Pro Gear is flat on the ends, 1911 is regular cigar shaped. Both use the same nibs, I believe, which in my Pro Gear Realo is 21 ct. and has a little softness to it.

 

I'm grateful for the reminder, it's time for me to ink it up again. My only grump about this pen is that, for a pen that is not long (135 mm), it is too fat in the middle to fit well into my gopens.com trays.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Paul-in-SF

[gyasko]

1. Any Sheaffer with a Triumph F nib. F nibs are the most common.

 

2. Pelikan 400/N/NN DEF or DF. No flex, smooth but wet.

[Karmachanic]

Oh wow-that does hit all the boxes assuming the Pilot fine/EFs are as good as everyone says.

 

The only potential downside is I'm not wild about demonstrators, and that's all I see at Goulet. Does it come in a non-demonstrator?

 

Then try the Pilot CH 912 F. Con-70 converter takes 1.1ml. On the other hand you can't go wrong with a MB146 EF. Got mine from Izods

Edited September 9, 2020 by Karmachanic

[bunnspecial]

Thanks-lots of good suggestions here and some things for me to chew on.

 

I like the Sailor a lot, but ~$400 might be a bit out of my budget now. I can swing $200 for the Pilot CH 92, but probably not a ton more. There's one sitting in my cart at Goulet now, even though I'd rather not have a demonstrator as I mentioned.

 

I like the suggestion of a 146 with an EF. For better than a year, an early 90s 146 with what I'm almost positive is an M has been my primary pen, and it's honestly nearly perfect for me in terms of size, weight, nib smoothness, and ink capacity. The only thing I might change is I'd like a softer nib(mine's 14K and is a nail), but otherwise my writing style suits it and the with the right ink(including the blue-blacks I tend to prefer) I get a fair bit of shading with it, which makes up somewhat for the lack of line variation. The only issue with that route is that a new MB is out of my price range, and I'm leery of buying used when looking for a specific(and presumably less common) nib size like EF since it's not overly easy to tell.

[langere]

Well, the Sailor 21k nib is a nail - at least mine is - so that might rule it out.

 

Erick

[JosephKing]

Pilot Custom 823 (F)

You can hopefully get close to your budget mark if you find it on sale

[cunim]

Why not a Bock or Jowo #6 nib assembly from FPNibs? Install that in any pen that accepts the assembly, anything from an Indian eye dropper to a Conid.

 

I've had good luck with these and you can get the nib customized to as fine as you like. Point is, if you are after a specific nib then buy the nib, not the pen.

 

https://fpnibs.com/collections/jowo-steel-6/products/size-6-unit-with-jowo-steel-nib-ef-tip

[A Smug Dill]

1. As I said, true F, or even EF might be okay

_...‹snip›...

It seems that Japanese pens often get praised for their fine nibs,

See https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/343508-q-i-use-western-fine-nibs-what-is-the-japanese-equivalent/page-3?do=findComment&comment=4173656 and scroll down for some comparisons I did a long while back.

 

so I'm thinking of maybe a Pilot Vanishing Point. It suits the situations where I'd want a fine anyway(i.e. note taking or other situations where I'm frequently laying down the pen and where paper space is at a premium) even though I know it's a C/C pen.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/340395-sailor-shikiori-yodaki-four-seasons-summer-night-bonfire/

 

I'll say that Pilot Capless gold nibs are generally smoother compared to other Japanese or even other Pilot gold nibs; but then I value kinaesthetic feedback from the nib when I write, so that's neither a plus nor a minus for me. The Pilot Capless nibs aren't sooo smooth to glide all over the page uncontrollably and create a problem for pen control.

 

With the Pilot Capless, you could always just use an ink cartridge (or even refill an old one) if you desire a larger ink reservoir; or find a discontinued Pilot CON-20 converter for sale.

 

Can anyone else provide viable suggestions? Bonus points for something that hits all 5 points above...

 

So why not a Pelikan M40x with the nib tuned and/or tipping ground down to the desired width? The 14k gold nib will be wet and (compared to the steel M20x nibs) stiff, it'll be a piston-filler, the pen body will be of a certain quality, the cap is pretty good at preventing ink evaporation. Until a week ago, it could be had for £131.63 (≈US$171) delivered. I've managed to get a M400 Brown-Tortoise last year for €158 (≈US$187), so it's doable within a US$200 budget if you keep an eye out for discount offers. As for the cost of a regrind, given it really isn't a viable after-purchase offer option for me, I just grind my M20x and M40x nibs myself where necessary.

 

Lamy 2000 EF

Well, I don't like the EF nib on the Lamy 2000, but that's just me.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/351043-brief-comparison-of-various-lamy-extra-fine-nibs-output/

Edited September 10, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[zaddick]

You can send your MB 146 to a nibmaster and have the line width reduced and even some softness added, all for a lot less than the cost of a new pen.

[zaddick]

How about an MB 12/22/32 (or 14/24/34 if you want a little more length) vintage pen. Should check all 5 of your boxes and often is well within your budget. Pretty easy to service and clean too.

[vicpen123]

Sailor 1911 M with 21k fine nib. I bought this when I was still green on the intricacies of nib widths and did not know that Japanese nibs are finer than western pens.

 

I normally write with an M nib (F for Parker Sonnets) because I prefer smoothness.

 

Even though The Sailor is a fine nail, it still writes smoothly on scrappy paper.

[bunnspecial]

See https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/343508-q-i-use-western-fine-nibs-what-is-the-japanese-equivalent/page-3?do=findComment&comment=4173656 and scroll down for some comparisons I did a long while back.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/340395-sailor-shikiori-yodaki-four-seasons-summer-night-bonfire/

 

I'll say that Pilot Capless gold nibs are generally smoother compared to other Japanese or even other Pilot gold nibs; but then I value kinaesthetic feedback from the nib when I write, so that's neither a plus nor a minus for me. The Pilot Capless nibs aren't sooo smooth to glide all over the page uncontrollably and create a problem for pen control.

 

With the Pilot Capless, you could always just use an ink cartridge (or even refill an old one) if you desire a larger ink reservoir; or find a discontinued Pilot CON-20 converter for sale.

 

 

So why not a Pelikan M40x with the nib tuned and/or tipping ground down to the desired width? The 14k gold nib will be wet and (compared to the steel M20x nibs) stiff, it'll be a piston-filler, the pen body will be of a certain quality, the cap is pretty good at preventing ink evaporation. Until a week ago, it could be had for £131.63 (≈US$171) delivered. I've managed to get a M400 Brown-Tortoise last year for €158 (≈US$187), so it's doable within a US$200 budget if you keep an eye out for discount offers. As for the cost of a regrind, given it really isn't a viable after-purchase offer for me, I just grind my M20x and M40x nibs myself where necessary.

 

Well, I don't like the EF nib on the Lamy 2000, but that's just me.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/351043-brief-comparison-of-various-lamy-extra-fine-nibs-output/

Hmmm, that's a good thought...

 

I've had a Pelikan 400 for a little while now with a medium that I like as my grading pen. I go back and forth on it. On one hand, I like the nib on it, although I've been tempted to swap the nicely spring steel one from my cracked barrel 205 onto it even though a steel nib on a 40x I know is something of a heresy...I should just fix the 205.

 

The other side of that is that I've written with that size pen a lot. It's in the ballpark of being too small for me. The 205 I mentioned above was my primary pen for several years(before it managed a sneaky crack in the cap threads on the section that would leave the whole thing an inky mess) and even though I did write a lot with it often a page or so would leave me with a cramped hand. The MB146 is the perfect sized pen for me, and some of the others suggested in this thread are in the same ballpark of size.

 

At the same time, this isn't being bought as a primary writer, so the wheels in my head are churning. A week or two back, a friend offered me a new in box, never inked 400 in medium for a very attractive price($100USD) because he said it was just too small for him and he couldn't see himself using it. I passed because it was identical to my other 400(white, and I'm not sure what the pattern is called but green translucent stripes on the barrel). Perhaps it would be worthwhile to buy that one and have the nib tuned to what I want-there's certainly money left over at $100.

[bunnspecial]

You can send your MB 146 to a nibmaster and have the line width reduced and even some softness added, all for a lot less than the cost of a new pen.

 

 

How about an MB 12/22/32 (or 14/24/34 if you want a little more length) vintage pen. Should check all 5 of your boxes and often is well within your budget. Pretty easy to service and clean too.

 

I'm hesitant to send off my current 146 because what I'm looking for will be a secondary/supplemental writer for times that I need a fine, and I still prefer a medium for general writing.

 

I'm not opposed to vintage, from MB or anyone else, though.

 

[A Smug Dill]

... I've been tempted to swap the nicely spring steel one from my cracked barrel 205 onto it even though a steel nib on a 40x I know is something of a heresy...I should just fix the 205.

 

 

Funny you should say that. I swapped the gold-plated steel F nib from my Pelikan M200 Smoky Quartz — which is always filled with Platinum Classic Ink Khaki Black, my favourite brown ink and, no, it being an iron-gall ink has not caused any corrosion of the steel nib as far as I'm aware — into my prettier and rather more expensive M400 White-Tortoiseshell, promptly after I received the latter and tested its gold EF nib, because I thought the steel nib is the better nib of the two and the M400 WT 'deserved' it more; that I am now using a gold nib with the iron-gall ink in the M200 SQ is incidental. (In the end, I was dissatisfied with the way the gold EF nib wrote, so I reshaped the tipping myself.) I also swapped the steel EF nib from my M200 Gold-Marbled into my M400 Tortoiseshell-Brown for the same reason.

[bunnspecial]

 

 

Funny you should say that. I swapped the gold-plated steel F nib from my Pelikan M200 Smoky Quartz — which is always filled with Platinum Classic Ink Khaki Black, my favourite brown ink and, no, it being an iron-gall ink has not caused any corrosion of the steel nib as far as I'm aware — into my prettier and rather more expensive M400 White-Tortoiseshell, promptly after I received the latter and tested its gold EF nib, because I thought the steel nib is the better nib of the two and the M400 WT 'deserved' it more; that I am now using a gold nib with the iron-gall ink in the M200 SQ is incidental. (In the end, I was dissatisfied with the way the gold EF nib wrote, so I reshaped the tipping myself.) I also swapped the steel EF nib from my M200 Gold-Marbled into my M400 Tortoiseshell-Brown for the same reason.

Okay, so it's not unprecedented at all.

 

Also, I'm a BIG iron gall fan, and that particular 205 with a steel nib, over the course of about 5 years, digested the majority of a 60mL bottle of MB Midnight Blue(IG formula). I never even thought twice about it.

 

In a bit of an ironic twice, since I've tried in vain but can't get any more IG Midnight Blue, my MB 146 now runs mostly IG Pelikan Blue-Black(which I fortunately was able to buy from Japan since we lost IG Peilkant in the US right about the time I started using FPs). I still have one or two more fills of MB Midnight Blue that I use on special occasions, but I dole it out carefully.

 

Still, I like the 14K M on my 400 tortoise shell, so I'm going to text my friend today and see if he still has that pen and wants to sell it(probably yes on both).