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Calling It An "ink" Pen


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63 replies to this topic

#21 empliau

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 03:51

I came across this in a linguistics course.  I am not responsible for the accuracy, but the explanation they gave is: in the American south, and other places as well, "pen" and "pin" are homophones, that is, they are pronounced the same - /pin/.  That is quite common, for instance bough and bow.  But if someone says "Hand me a pin" the hearer may not understand if a pen or a pin is meant, if they are pronounced the same, so in the interest of clarity pen became ink pen (or ink pin, phonetically).



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#22 S_B_P

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 05:21

I am from India. I grew up doing my schooling in 90s. We referred to fountain pens as ink pens. When I initially heard the term 'fountain pen' in late high school, I had thought that fountain pen is some special type of pen with some special filling mechanisms (as opposed to commonly used eyedropper 'ink pens' we use in school).

Ink pen is the term commonly used for fountain pens (at least in Southern states of India).



#23 ISW_Kaputnik

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 06:01

In contrast to an ink pencil.

Well, the Parker Liquid Lead pencil was something like that.

 

http://parkerpens.net/liquidlead.html


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#24 tubular

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 06:07

I wonder if it has to do with the way people substitute a nonspecific qualifier for a specific one out of laziness, forming a nonsensical contraction.   One I hear all the time around here is "wheat bread" for "whole wheat bread"; another is "quality" for (presumably) "high quality."  The practice seems to be related to the taking of a part of a word (sometimes the least important part) for the whole, as in the maddening use of "bus" for "omnibus." 


Edited by tubular, 12 August 2020 - 06:15.


#25 carola

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 07:55

In contrast to an ink pencil.

In German, there actually are ink pencils. I don´t quite know if they are still around, but I remember them clearly. The difference between a pencil and an ink pencil was that you couldn´t erase what you had written with an ink pencil.

 

I have no idea if the ink pencil is an actual lead pencil. In any case it wouldn´t write in a straight grey colour but grey with a violet hue.


Edited by carola, 12 August 2020 - 07:57.


#26 praxim

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 08:17

... some special filling mechanisms (as opposed to commonly used eyedropper 'ink pens' we use in school).

Ink pen is the term commonly used for fountain pens (at least in Southern states of India).

The Onoto Ink Pencil to which I referred earlier was also an ED. Its writing mechanism was not a conventional nib but [looks in pictures to be] a bit of wire rod protruding rather like a mechanical pencil lead, with the ink flowing down its sides. Ink Pencil is indeed a thing.


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#27 AmandaW

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 08:27

Derwent make Inktense pencils. They're saturated colours and watersoluble, so they end on the page looking more like ink than pencil.


It's all about the greys...


#28 Karmachanic

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 09:26

For a period of time I lived in a certain US state/city where 'pin' and 'pen' where pronounced the same. Hence ink pen.


Edited by Karmachanic, 12 August 2020 - 09:26.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."


#29 sandy101

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 10:22

Ink pen - a corral to prevent ink from roaming free on the prairie. 

 

Imagine what the landscape would look like if bay State Blue roamed free.

 

White cliffs of Dover? no.

 

And they'd have to rename Yellowstone National Park - and the Redwood pines would be rainbow pines. 



#30 Monophoto

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 10:43

My sense is that 'ink pen' is a regional affectation, at least in North America.  Seems to be somewhat more common in the South - - -



#31 MadAsAHatter

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 12:52

I came across this in a linguistics course.  I am not responsible for the accuracy, but the explanation they gave is: in the American south, and other places as well, "pen" and "pin" are homophones, that is, they are pronounced the same - /pin/.  That is quite common, for instance bough and bow.  But if someone says "Hand me a pin" the hearer may not understand if a pen or a pin is meant, if they are pronounced the same, so in the interest of clarity pen became ink pen (or ink pin, phonetically).

 

For a period of time I lived in a certain US state/city where 'pin' and 'pen' where pronounced the same. Hence ink pen.

 

My sense is that 'ink pen' is a regional affectation, at least in North America.  Seems to be somewhat more common in the South - - -

 

I live in southeast Louisiana and the term ink pen is very common.  With our regional accents it comes out as "ink pin".  So pen and pin are homophones because of accent and I can see needing the qualifier of ink to distinguish between the two.

 

Then again people around here also like to say hose pipe and hot water heater

-A hose is flexible and a pipe is rigid so which one is it?

-If you already have hot water why do you need to heat it?

:lticaptd:  :lticaptd:  :lticaptd:



#32 Black Spot

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 13:45

In German, there actually are ink pencils. I don´t quite know if they are still around, but I remember them clearly. The difference between a pencil and an ink pencil was that you couldn´t erase what you had written with an ink pencil.

 

I have no idea if the ink pencil is an actual lead pencil. In any case it wouldn´t write in a straight grey colour but grey with a violet hue.

 

you mean a copying pencil, they had a few different uses but the primary point was they what was written could not be erased. Most commonly used for business records in the 1900's and were fading out by the 1930's.

They are still used in technical drawing and some government jobs. 

I have a box of green ones. 



#33 Black Spot

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 13:51

Not remember fountain pens? When fountain pen nibs are seen in logos? When they are seen in Looney Tunes/Warner Bros/Bugs Bunny cartoons? When diplomats and presidents and prime ministers use them to sign important documents of state and treaties--right there on live tv?
 

That just blows my mind that people today don't know fountain pens exist.

 

Aren't they paying attention?

 

Wow. Just ... wow.

 

I expect that at some point soon no one will know what a pen is at all. They will all just use talk to text and post pictures of pens in the guess the mysterious object thread.



#34 Black Spot

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 14:02

But yeah “ink pen” sounds like something the Department of Redundancy Department came up with
:P

your copy,

I will not have my work mocked 

Just because we do the work that others have already done does not make it irrelevant or repetitive.

sincerely yours the Government Ministry for Department of Redundancy  

our motto: Third time the charm.

 

our copy,

I will not have my work mocked 

Just because we do the work that others have already done does not make it irrelevant or repetitive.

sincerely yours the Government Ministry for Department of Redundancy  

our motto: Third time the charm.

 

to be filed,

I will not have my work mocked 

Just because we do the work that others have already done does not make it irrelevant or repetitive.

sincerely yours the Government Ministry for Department of Redundancy  

our motto: Third time the charm.



#35 bemon

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 14:17

I hear it almost exclusively from South Asian folks. So it could be cultural. "Oh, is that an ink pen?" "I didn't know you used ink pens." "My dad always used to use ink pens." 

 

And my favorite from a Pakistani girl I used to work with. "Ew, is that like an ink pen? What are you, 90? My grandpa won't use anything else. You're like acting old." 


Edited by bemon, 12 August 2020 - 14:21.


#36 sciumbasci

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 14:31

I had thought ink pen was a term used by Indian English (which, in fact, is used all over the former British Raj) , whereas a ballpoint pen is called ball pen.

#37 Mysterious Mose

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 15:09

How do you pronounce "pink ink pen?"

 

I remember an episode of Candid Camera which dealt with how "All" and "Oil" are pronounced the same.

 

When I went to college in Michigan, people pronounced "Mary was merry and got married" as "Mary was Mary and got Maryed.".


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#38 ISW_Kaputnik

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 15:25

...When I went to college in Michigan, people pronounced "Mary was merry and got married" as "Mary was Mary and got Maryed.".

 

I'll bite. :D   Yes, that's how I'd say it.  In fact, before seeing your post, it would not have occurred to me that there was another way to say it.  I may look into it later, but I can't imagine how else one would say it. ;)

 

Born in New York, I lived in Iowa, Louisiana, and Illinois growing up.  I've been in Connecticut for over 30 years, but people occasionally still tell me that they can't quite place my accent.  They usually guess Midwest or "South".


"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do." - Benjamin Franklin

#39 Mysterious Mose

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 15:36

How do you pronounce "pink ink pen?"

Correction.  "pink pin pen"


Dan Kalish

 

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#40 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 16:07

 

Wouldn't that be a lead pen? :P

 

That would, to me, refer to a metal-point drawing tool: https://www.jacksons...wing-materials/

 

Whereas I recall a liquid (ballpoint) pencil refill for, I think, Cross pens in the early 70s. Sharpie used to have one https://www.officede...l-05-mm-Opaque/

 

Only thing I currently find on the market is actually a form of acrylic artist paint: https://www.amazon.c...tag=googhydr-20

 

 

Maybe ink pen refers a liquid ink..opposite to ball pen ink..that is a dye grease...not liquid really... ;)

Now you've defined a rollerball pen -- when introduced the selling point was that they did not use a grease/gel carrier, but a liquid in a sealed reservoir. (And my ancient beat-up Levenger even uses international standard cartridges)








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