Parker 51 Color Matching

[Paul-in-SF]

I know there was some variety among various examples of the "same color" of 51 barrels, (or at least there is now, after 70 or 80 years of survival in some cases) but they must have had a color standard that they were trying to meet for each one -- at least I presume so. So each batch at each factory would have been more or less close to this standard or ideal.

 

For example, the color plates in the Parker 51 book probably correspond to some color chart with a hex code or something. I don't know if those represent their actual standard, but I suppose they might.

 

Has this information been preserved anywhere? That is, the color codes for the ideal standard colors for all the various iterations, especially the lucite ones, of the Parker 51?

[Ron Z]

I think that there likely wasn't a hex code back in 1941. I haven't seen anything in any of the books, nor have I heard of anything, referencing a specific color temperature either.

 

Sheaffer was remarkably consistent in their colors batch to batch, especially after the war. Parker, not so much. You can often find half a dozen variations in color between pens and pen parts, sometimes different shades on the same pen. I was going to name colors that are especially bad, but then I realized that all of them have wide variations - even in different parts on the same pen. Some of it may be caused by environmental influences, but I also have seen it in some of the NOS parts that I have.

[Paul-in-SF]

Fair enough. I'm sure it wasn't an exact process (judging by the results) but it's hard for me to imagine that they didn't have specific colors they were aiming for, even when they didn't achieve them consistently at different times and places. If they weren't hex codes could they have been RGB or CMYK formulas? Or just color chips? I'd be very interested to know if these are preserved anywhere.

[pajaro]

Fair enough. I'm sure it wasn't an exact process (judging by the results) but it's hard for me to imagine that they didn't have specific colors they were aiming for, even when they didn't achieve them consistently at different times and places. If they weren't hex codes could they have been RGB or CMYK formulas? Or just color chips? I'd be very interested to know if these are preserved anywhere.

 

You are trying to apply current standards to 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s plastics making? Probably they did try to standardize each color as well as they could. It does appear that when new plastic stock came in with a variation from previous lot that they just made more pens with it, rather than insisting on rigorous regimentation. "Take this junk back?" "We won't bother making pens until you get it right." They probably had to just keep making pens no matter the color shade variations if they were close. Frankly I enjoy the variations and find them charming. Especially the variations in "burgundy." British bloody burgundy, US dark and somewhat lighter burgundy and the Argentine version of burgundy that is more like carmine. Like a color chart with asterisks. I am a stamp collector, and I am used to color variations in otherwise identical items.

Edited August 6, 2020 by pajaro

[FarmBoy]

There are examples of marked Parker pens indicating color samples.

[Paul-in-SF]

Again, I'm not talking about the reality, I'm talking about the ideal and whether they had ideal colors, and how they were defined. It's hard to believe they didn't have some reference points, however loosely they may have hewn to them.

 

I can imagine, though, that they might have just gone to a manufacturer and picked colors from stock and said "Make more of this." If that's the case, I wonder if even that fact is memorialized anywhere. The Parker 51 book has no mention of any of this that I can find.

 

Some of the named colors have rather subtle differences to other named colors, such as Cedar Blue vs. Midnight Blue, so I also wonder how they worked that out.

[Paul-in-SF]

There are examples of marked Parker pens indicating color samples.

 

(This post happened while I was still writing my previous one.) This is good to know. Are they available to be seen by anyone?

[Estycollector]

I read somewhere the cedar blue turned to black over time. I have a mechanical Parker 51 to match my cedar blue that doesn't look quite black and even the seller said it was greenish.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

i have two cedar blues. Neither of mine is "black" just VERY dark blue.

BUT, I don't know if/how much they have darkened over time.

And both of mine are the same colour.

Edited August 6, 2020 by IThinkIHaveAProblem

[Estycollector]

i have two cedar blues. Neither of mine is "black" just VERY dark blue.

BUT, I don't know if/how much they have darkened over time.

And both of mine are the same colour.

Sorry, are you speaking of the FP or pencil? Apparently the plastic is not the same and that caused the pencils to turn.

[inkstainedruth]

Cedar Blue and Midnight Blue are very similar -- but I think that you only find Cedar Blue on the 51 Vacs, and only find Midnight Blue on the Aerometrics.

Now if I only knew where my husband squirreled away the 51 Demi (as well as the other two pens he bought) at the antiques fair we went to in January. I want to put it side by side with my Midnight Blue and my Teal Aeros to see what color the Demi actually is....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

pens.

 

were the pencils not made of Lucite?...

 

answered my own question:

http://parker51.com/index.php/51s/pencils/

 

no, they were generally made of celluloid...

 

Ruth, you are AFAIK correct, midnight is an Aero-metric colour and Cedar is a Vac colour

Edited August 6, 2020 by IThinkIHaveAProblem

[Ron Z]

IIRC, (and FarmBoy could confirm or not) some of the pen parts like blind caps were celluloid and not Lucite, which also explains the color differences. The reference was made about a double jewel Buckskin 51.

[Estycollector]

pens.

 

were the pencils not made of Lucite?...

 

answered my own question:

http://parker51.com/index.php/51s/pencils/

 

no, they were generally made of celluloid...

 

Ruth, you are AFAIK correct, midnight is an Aero-metric colour and Cedar is a Vac colour

Did you notice that the CB turned to black from the link you posted from Parker51?

[Ron Z]

This not to disagree, but I'll have to ask around to find out how they know that the colors darkened VS variations in production, which takes us back to the OP question. An awful lot of archives were lost when Sheaffer closed, and the same for the Parker factory in Janesville. ...either that, or they're scattered around in people's collections.

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

Did you notice that the CB turned to black from the link you posted from Parker51?

i did. glad the pens didn't do that.

[Paul-in-SF]

I may have found an answer to my question about the standards for the Parker 51 colors on Richard Binder's page, in one of the notes.

 

"Color codes are taken from wall-mounted cards used by the Parker factory repair department in Janesville, Wisconsin. Olive and Charcoal appear on the card for the Mark III pen, but I have personally seen pens in neither of these colors."

 

I believe this refers to the color samples he uses on his page, but it's possible it only refers to the code numbers he prints next to the color names. But it doesn't make sense to me that they would have had cards with just numbers posted on the wall, so I choose to believe that they had representations there of the colors as well.

[PDW]

Are the colour differences in a named shade always right through the plastic, or sometimes only on the outside?

 

Might the lucky owners have a look down the inside of the barrel or a removed hood to see if the changes are due to atmospheric or light-induced fading/darkening which only show externally.

Edited August 31, 2020 by PDW

[pajaro]

Several years ago I asked of the experts if colors like burgundy (aero) and midnight blue (aero) had darkened over time, because some of the 51 colors look almost black to me. The experts said that the colors had not darkened. I have looked at a lot of 51s I had collected, and I now agree with the the experts here ten or so years ago.

 

For those confused about whether a color is a Vacumatic or Aerometric color, I refer you to parker51.com and the color chart there.