Efnir: Sailor Seiboku

[LizEF]

Extra Fine Nib Ink Review: Sailor Seiboku

 

This is review #24 in my series. Here's the YouTube video:

 

And here is a screen of the final result, for those not interested in the video:

Scan of Completed Review:

 

Zoomed in photo:

 

Lightfastness test... After being held under running water, then spending 2+ years in south-facing window:

Absorbent Paper Closeup (puzzle paper like thick newsprint):

 

Screenshots also available on Instagram: @zilxodarap

 

Previous Review: Rohrer & Klingner SketchINK Emma.

 

Want to influence the inky sequence? Take the "next ink" poll.

 

Hope you enjoy. Comments appreciated!

[LizEF]

Curse me! I know, it should be "you're"!

Used pen flush for cleaning, but was not as difficult to clean as the R&K SketchINKs.

[Aditlojs]

I've enjoyed your reviews. Thanks for posting.

 

This is not a question specific to this ink but more general. Do you think some of the fun in exploring different inks is lost by using EF nibs exclusively?

 

Part of what I like about your reviews is I get a truer picture of what the ink looks like out of nibs similar to what I use regularly. I am relatively new to the hobby but I've noticed a lot my inks tend to look interchangeable when in an EF nib.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Tasmith]

Another great review!

[LizEF]

I've enjoyed your reviews. Thanks for posting....

 

Glad you're enjoying them! And, you're very welcome!

 

.... Do you think some of the fun in exploring different inks is lost by using EF nibs exclusively?

 

I don't know how to answer that question. I don't use EF nibs exclusively. Normally, I tend to use F nibs (both Japanese and western).

 

Beyond that, fun is in the brain of the individual... I guess if what you want to do is explore ink, then you need a wide variety of nib sizes, with varying wetness, and some brushes, different papers, etc., etc. So if you only used an EF nib, you wouldn't be exploring the ink, not fully. Mostly, I just want to use ink. And for that, the fun is using the inks in my pens and for my purposes - which so far don't include huge characters and ink splotches for Instagram.

 

Hmm. I guess for me, the fun is in the variety of inks - switching it up every time I ink - rather than in exploring a given ink in depth. (I have a slight ink sample addiction.)

 

...Part of what I like about your reviews is I get a truer picture of what the ink looks like out of nibs similar to what I use regularly. I am relatively new to the hobby but I've noticed a lot my inks tend to look interchangeable when in an EF nib.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

My point in these reviews is less to explore inks and more to provide a useful tool for EF nib users, because I used EFs more when I first got back into FPs, and most reviews didn't give me a good idea what the ink would look like from really fine nibs. Like you, I found that inks can look quite different from broader nibs, and the differences between inks can be harder to see from really fine nibs.

 

I've gotten enough experience now that I can predict an ink's behavior and appearance in my pens, but it's still a guess. Also, I've changed to enjoy the variety more than worrying about whether an ink color from my pen matches what I've seen in reviews or swatches. And early on, I switched to buying samples, which makes all this more affordable.

 

Don't know if that helps, but those are my thoughts. I'm happy to explore the topic more if you have additional questions.

[LizEF]

Another great review!

Thanks!

[yazeh]

Curse me! I know, it should be "you're"!

Used pen flush for cleaning, but was not as difficult to clean as the R&K SketchINKs.

I remember reading a book about a Buddhist monk building his monastery in Australia. The first bricks in the wall he made were not so straight, and each time he showed the finished wall to visitors he pointed those out of line bricks, his first two....but none of the visitors noticed those bricks but admired the wall......

 

I personally admire and enjoy your work.... and enjoy reading the whimsical meandering.....

 

So thank you

Edited July 3, 2020 by yazeh

[LizEF]

I remember reading a book about a Buddhist monk building his monastery in Australia. The first bricks in the wall he made were not so straight, and each time he showed the finished wall to visitors he pointed those out of line bricks, his first two....but none of the visitors noticed those bricks but admired the wall......

 

I personally admire and enjoy your work.... and enjoy reading the whimsical meandering.....

 

So thank you

Thank you! That's very kind.

[Tincansailor]

Another enjoyable review

[dennis_f]

How did I not see your Instagram link after so many posts?!?

 

I found your last group of 12 or 15 photos is particularly helpful, because they help get a great sense of each ink's particular tone. Sometimes when I'm reading a review online, and looking at the posted pictures, the colours tend to "average out" (if you know what I mean): a blue is just a blue with a bit of green tint, or a bit of purple hue.. but it's still just kind of "blue"; or one green is a bit muddier than another green, but both, viewed one after another (or days after one another) are just "green." But your posts give each colour context and relationships and really make each of them pop in their own unique ways. So, thank you for that additional resource!

[Sailor Kenshin]

Ohhh, soooo tempting! Is this ink difficult to clean out of pens? Because I would totally use this for sketching.

 

And you know I love your reviews.

[LizEF]

Another enjoyable review

Thank you!

 

How did I not see your Instagram link after so many posts?!?

 

I found your last group of 12 or 15 photos is particularly helpful, because they help get a great sense of each ink's particular tone. Sometimes when I'm reading a review online, and looking at the posted pictures, the colours tend to "average out" (if you know what I mean): a blue is just a blue with a bit of green tint, or a bit of purple hue.. but it's still just kind of "blue"; or one green is a bit muddier than another green, but both, viewed one after another (or days after one another) are just "green." But your posts give each colour context and relationships and really make each of them pop in their own unique ways. So, thank you for that additional resource!

Glad that's helping! And I agree, seeing them all together gives you another perspective - that's why I'm using the same equipment and lighting for everything - hopefully nothing breaks!

 

Ohhh, soooo tempting! Is this ink difficult to clean out of pens? Because I would totally use this for sketching.

 

And you know I love your reviews.

I don't find this hard at all to clean out of my pens, though I do use pen flush for it, just to be sure I get everything. If you read @Tas's comments on it and Souboku, since he's used it more than I have, it sounds like long term use is no problem either. Now, I have on occasion dismantled a pen after Seiboku or Souboku and found a sort of black film (not the right word, as it rinses right off) on the back of the nib, and that's why I use pen flush. The theory is that it's just the black component of the blue-black. Others have reported they know about it and that it just flushes through with their next ink fill (this was years ago this was reported - here in a discussion under one of the reviews). Regardless, it's not something that I worry about as it doesn't seem to stick or resist cleaning - just be there at the start of cleaning - and it only shows up on the back of the nib.

 

I'm glad you like them, and appreciate you saying so.

[A Smug Dill]

I've been looking forward to your review of Sailor seiboku, Liz. Thank you for this! I'm astounded that you even have a two-year-old suntanned writing sample to include.

 

This is not a question specific to this ink but more general. Do you think some of the fun in exploring different inks is lost by using EF nibs exclusively?

Beyond that, fun is in the brain of the individual... I guess if what you want to do is explore ink, then you need a wide variety of nib sizes, with varying wetness, and some brushes, different papers, etc., etc. So if you only used an EF nib, you wouldn't be exploring the ink, not fully._...‹snip›... I guess for me, the fun is in the variety of inks - switching it up every time I ink - rather than in exploring a given ink in depth.

I think there is a logical distinction between "exploring different inks" and exploring an ink fully. For example, Sailor Shikiori yamadori, Sailor Kujukuri Coast hakkakuao and Kobe INK Story #44 Sumaura Seaside Blue (which is also made by Sailor) are very similar to each other in colour. To me, part of the fun was in acquiring some of each, and then comparing them and trying to discern the differences between them, even if I'm just doing ink drops, splashes and/or swabs with the inks and also writing in them using an EF nib; even if the colours are seemingly identical, they may yet have different propensities to exhibit shading and sheen, or have different degrees of water resistance from one another.

And then, one could also get a substantial range of colour intensities out of a given ink using a variety of EF nibs.

I am relatively new to the hobby but I've noticed a lot my inks tend to look interchangeable when in an EF nib.

Well, black is black — except when it isn't. Do you want them to look (or be) interchangeable, so that you could just settle for the one that is better behaved, or cheaper and/or easier to get, instead of having to have half a dozen different black inks because you know exactly in which ways they're subtly different from each other? Or have all three of the aforementioned teal inks, and also Diamine Aurora Borealis and Smoke On The Water, Robert Oster Deep Sea, Ferris Wheel Press Bluegrass Velvet, and so on?

 

Then there's the issue of sensory acuity, which of course can develop over time. At any point in time, there is only so much that your senses can differentiate; but as you spend time purposefully looking at more and more inks, you'll start to be able to discern more minor differences, just as a wine connoisseur will have developed a more refined palate over time, than when he/she started out drinking at which point shiraz cabernet and cabernet sauvignon probably tasted "the same" or "interchangeable".

[yazeh]

 

Well, black is black — except when it isn't. Do you want them to look (or be) interchangeable, so that you could just settle for the one that is better behaved, or cheaper and/or easier to get, instead of having to have half a dozen different black inks because you know exactly in which ways they're subtly different from each other? Or have all three of the aforementioned teal inks, and also Diamine Aurora Borealis and Smoke On The Water, Robert Oster Deep Sea, Ferris Wheel Press Bluegrass Velvet, and so on?

 

Then there's the issue of sensory acuity, which of course can develop over time. At any point in time, there is only so much that your senses can differentiate; but as you spend time purposefully looking at more and more inks, you'll start to be able to discern more minor differences, just as a wine connoisseur will have developed a more refined palate over time, than when he/she started out drinking at which point shiraz cabernet and cabernet sauvignon probably tasted "the same" or "interchangeable".

I don't have much experience with fine/ Ef nibs. I like them for precision writing, when I'm editing a printed text. However, I've found wet inks, are much more pleasurable to write with, in that case.... 54th Massachusetts is quite fun, but Kung Te-Chung which is delightful with medium nibs not as much....though the exception to the rule is Scabiosa, which is a pleasure to write with on cheap copy paper....but not so much on FP friendly paper....

[LizEF]

I've been looking forward to your review of Sailor seiboku, Liz. Thank you for this! I'm astounded that you even have a two-year-old suntanned writing sample to include.

Yeah, glad I kept that. It has some other inks on it too, so I'll be using it when I review those (assuming I still have samples of them).

 

I think there is a logical distinction between "exploring different inks" and exploring an ink fully. For example, Sailor Shikiori yamadori, Sailor Kujukuri Coast hakkakuao and Kobe INK Story #44 Sumaura Seaside Blue (which is also made by Sailor) are very similar to each other in colour. To me, part of the fun was in acquiring some of each, and then comparing them and trying to discern the differences between them, even if I'm just doing ink drops, splashes and/or swabs with the inks and also writing in them using an EF nib; even if the colours are seemingly identical, they may yet have different propensities to exhibit shading and sheen, or have different degrees of water resistance from one another.

Oh, good catch. I was thinking explore one ink in depth vs exploring different inks, and you're right, not the same. So I guess I am exploring different inks. But I'm very intentionally doing so with an EF, so no, the EF doesn't take the fun out of it - since without the EF, there's be no fun at all!

 

And then, one could also get a substantial range of colour intensities out of a given ink using a variety of EF nibs.

Holy ink sampling, Batman! I am not that ambitious or curious! At some point, I realized that I just like all the variety and each color (or almost each color) has its own good points, and I quit worrying about how they compare or which is "better" (colorwise). Now I just enjoy having a zillion options. Once in a while, I like an ink so much that I decide to get a bottle, but mostly, I just enjoy the sample and move on.

 

Well, black is black — except when it isn't. Do you want them to look (or be) interchangeable, so that you could just settle for the one that is better behaved, or cheaper and/or easier to get, instead of having to have half a dozen different black inks because you know exactly in which ways they're subtly different from each other? Or have all three of the aforementioned teal inks, and also Diamine Aurora Borealis and Smoke On The Water, Robert Oster Deep Sea, Ferris Wheel Press Bluegrass Velvet, and so on?

 

Then there's the issue of sensory acuity, which of course can develop over time. At any point in time, there is only so much that your senses can differentiate; but as you spend time purposefully looking at more and more inks, you'll start to be able to discern more minor differences, just as a wine connoisseur will have developed a more refined palate over time, than when he/she started out drinking at which point shiraz cabernet and cabernet sauvignon probably tasted "the same" or "interchangeable".

@Tas could make any ink look good!

 

And you're very right about developing "sensory acuity" over time - until I started doing this, I had a hard time distinguishing wetness / dryness from lubrication - now I have no problem. I think at least part of that is how quickly I'm going through them, so the memory of the previous writing experience is still fresh. Also the fact that I'm documenting things in a consistent way so I can refer back to my notes. But you do have to be paying attention!

 

Thanks for your comments!

[Intensity]

And you're very right about developing "sensory acuity" over time - until I started doing this, I had a hard time distinguishing wetness / dryness from lubrication - now I have no problem. I think at least part of that is how quickly I'm going through them, so the memory of the previous writing experience is still fresh. Also the fact that I'm documenting things in a consistent way so I can refer back to my notes. But you do have to be paying attention!

 

I find it most helpful to know the pens I use for ink reviews. I have a "feel" for how the pens work with different inks, and so can make a relative, subjective comparison for things like flow rate, lubrication, shading, etc. The same pen can drag and dig to paper with one ink and glide with another.

[LizEF]

I find it most helpful to know the pens I use for ink reviews. I have a "feel" for how the pens work with different inks, and so can make a relative, subjective comparison for things like flow rate, lubrication, shading, etc. The same pen can drag and dig to paper with one ink and glide with another.

Oh, yes, another good point! Using the same pen for all these reviews definitely makes a huge difference in my ability to discern how the ink itself behaves.

[Tas]

Thank you.

[LizEF]

 

Thank you.

You're most welcome!

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

awesome as always, thanks Liz!