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Sailor Possibly Being Bought Out

sailor

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#81 Olya

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 10:32

Sailor's trying something slightly new with the Compass 1911: 

 https://www.gouletpe...1-fountain-pens

 

Though, it seems to be basically the 1911 version of the Lecoule which is analogous to the Progear Slim, I believe.

 

I would love to see something more along the lines of a Salior 1911L Steel nib type pen... but I'm curious about the Compass 1911.

That seems to be the Profit Jr as it's named in Japan and on some European sites.

The Shikiori is also the steel version of the 1911 Standard, as is the Profit Jr.

 

The Lecoule is indeed the steel version of the Pro Gear Slim.



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#82 A Smug Dill

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 12:18

Sailor's trying something slightly new with the Compass 1911: 
 https://www.gouletpe...1-fountain-pens
 
Though, it seems to be basically the 1911 version of the Lecoule which is analogous to the Progear Slim, I believe.


It is the round-ended sibling of the Sailor Lecoule, yes; and Olya is correct that it is the Profit Junior, although in Japan the standard retail package does not include a converter.

Keep in mind that neither the Profit Junior (or, if you wish to call it the Compass 1911) nor the Lecoule comes with nibs shaped like those on the 1911 pens, and their nibs do not have the 1911 imprint.

I would love to see something more along the lines of a Salior 1911L Steel nib type pen... but I'm curious about the Compass 1911.


Sailor Procolor 500 is the steel-nibbed version of the Profit Standard (aka 1911 Standard). There are both steel- and gold-nibbed pens in the Sailor Shikiori line-up, and the steel-nibbed models are what would have been dubbed Procolor in Sailor's pre-2019 marketing nomenclature. I don't think there's a flat-ended version of that, which would be a Professional Gear Slim with a steel 1911-imprint nib.

As for pens with large-sized 1911 nibs (i.e. for models of the Profit and Professional Gear 'Classic' form factor) in stainless steel... if Sailor won't even offer 14K gold nibs for the larger pen models, so I wouldn't count on steel-nibbed versions of such ever being sold.
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#83 TSherbs

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 12:29

What a dizzying web of nomenclature.

#84 Mongoosey

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 16:16

That seems to be the Profit Jr as it's named in Japan and on some European sites.

The Shikiori is also the steel version of the 1911 Standard, as is the Profit Jr.

 

The Lecoule is indeed the steel version of the Pro Gear Slim.

 

Ah, I see : ) 

 

It is the round-ended sibling of the Sailor Lecoule, yes; and Olya is correct that it is the Profit Junior, although in Japan the standard retail package does not include a converter.

Keep in mind that neither the Profit Junior (or, if you wish to call it the Compass 1911) nor the Lecoule comes with nibs shaped like those on the 1911 pens, and their nibs do not have the 1911 imprint.


Sailor Procolor 500 is the steel-nibbed version of the Profit Standard (aka 1911 Standard). There are both steel- and gold-nibbed pens in the Sailor Shikiori line-up, and the steel-nibbed models are what would have been dubbed Procolor in Sailor's pre-2019 marketing nomenclature. I don't think there's a flat-ended version of that, which would be a Professional Gear Slim with a steel 1911-imprint nib.

As for pens with large-sized 1911 nibs (i.e. for models of the Profit and Professional Gear 'Classic' form factor) in stainless steel... if Sailor won't even offer 14K gold nibs for the larger pen models, so I wouldn't count on steel-nibbed versions of such ever being sold.

 

Good to know : )

 

Yes, such a 1911L or full sized pen is doubtful indeed.

 

What a dizzying web of nomenclature.

 

lol Indeed.


Edited by Mongoosey, 14 July 2020 - 16:19.


#85 A Smug Dill

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 16:41

Yes, such a 1911L or full sized pen is doubtful indeed.


Also bear in mind that the Profit Junior, Lecoule and (formerly) Procolor models are all significantly lighter in weight than the Profit Standard, Professional Gear Slim and Promenade models, even though they've very close respectively in terms of physical size. The only cigar-shaped, steel-nibbed Sailor pen (in its regular product line-up) that has about the same weight as a Profit Standard is a Fasciner, which would set you back ¥7,700 MSRP, so roughly US$72 without accounting for regional distributor's mark-up. In comparison, a Profit Junior is ¥2,200, and a standalone converter is ¥550. Now, if the Compass 1911 is essentially those last two items packaged together as an SKU, and the US MSRP is US$49 (but a customary 20% discount applies to make the everyday street price), then a Fasciner with a converter (nominally ¥8,250) could be expected to be priced 300% of that, and that isn't even a "full sized pen" with a steel nib. I'd say you'd be looking at well over US$100 for an "affordable" steel-nibbed "full sized" Profit equivalent, even if it was produced and offered in the North American market -- and I'm emphasising that last part because there is apparently not much of a market for such Sailor pens in Japan (and, more broadly, Southeast Asia).

In terms of overpriced ink, Platinum has changed their Mixfree ink line like Sailor: new, much smaller bottles (which the advertized as "rhombus" and "diamond" shaped, which you can arrange together as "flower"), same price.
The Mixfree line is overlooked by everyone, but it exists and had an overhaul a few years ago.


By the way, I was just looking on Cult Pens earlier, and it seems to have every colour in the Mixfree line in 60ml bottles in stock, and currently a 10% brand-wide discount for Platinum products (on top of which you can stack a discount code). Buy enough bottles of it at once, and you get free international shipping to Australia, China or the US alike.

Edited by A Smug Dill, 14 July 2020 - 17:02.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#86 Mongoosey

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 18:37

I'd love to see them come out with an affordable piston filler to compete with TWBSI.



#87 Olya

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 21:20

Also bear in mind that the Profit Junior, Lecoule and (formerly) Procolor models are all significantly lighter in weight than the Profit Standard, Professional Gear Slim and Promenade models, even though they've very close respectively in terms of physical size. The only cigar-shaped, steel-nibbed Sailor pen (in its regular product line-up) that has about the same weight as a Profit Standard is a Fasciner, which would set you back ¥7,700 MSRP, so roughly US$72 without accounting for regional distributor's mark-up. In comparison, a Profit Junior is ¥2,200, and a standalone converter is ¥550. Now, if the Compass 1911 is essentially those last two items packaged together as an SKU, and the US MSRP is US$49 (but a customary 20% discount applies to make the everyday street price), then a Fasciner with a converter (nominally ¥8,250) could be expected to be priced 300% of that, and that isn't even a "full sized pen" with a steel nib. I'd say you'd be looking at well over US$100 for an "affordable" steel-nibbed "full sized" Profit equivalent, even if it was produced and offered in the North American market -- and I'm emphasising that last part because there is apparently not much of a market for such Sailor pens in Japan (and, more broadly, Southeast Asia).


By the way, I was just looking on Cult Pens earlier, and it seems to have every colour in the Mixfree line in 60ml bottles in stock, and currently a 10% brand-wide discount for Platinum products (on top of which you can stack a discount code). Buy enough bottles of it at once, and you get free international shipping to Australia, China or the US alike.

Didn't know there was a weight difference between these pens, as dimension-wise they are very much the same (haven't actually measured them).

But that shouldn't be a surprise, imo you can feel the difference in quality between the Lecoule and the Pro Gear Slim, the way they screw shut etc.

The cheaper pens are still great, I've never had any issues with them.

 

Thank you for the info! I should go on Cult Pens more often, it is thanks to you that I saw how frikkin' cheap Pelikan steel m20x nibs are there! Crazy cheap, never seen them anywhere else as cheap! Not even on German sites!!



#88 mke

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 22:11

Sorry, I was off-topic. Let's avoid it.

Edited by mke, 14 July 2020 - 22:31.


#89 Olya

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 22:17

Deleted at request.


Edited by Olya, 15 July 2020 - 12:07.


#90 peroride

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 03:14

Freshly wet and the ink hasn't dried: https://biz-journal....ost_168837.html

 

Here I was thinking the sedate fountain pen biz was like comfy Midnight Diner

 

It's more like a Kurosawa Ran soap opera  :lol:

 

Some of the previous commentators were right, all speculation concerning our mutual lil FP niche is but mere bonito shaving flakes compared the big tuna of biz drama. :rolleyes:


Edited by peroride, 21 July 2020 - 03:14.


#91 mongrelnomad

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 07:38

Freshly wet and the ink hasn't dried: https://biz-journal....ost_168837.html
 
Here I was thinking the sedate fountain pen biz was like comfy Midnight Diner
 
It's more like a Kurosawa Ran soap opera  :lol:
 
Some of the previous commentators were right, all speculation concerning our mutual lil FP niche is but mere bonito shaving flakes compared the big tuna of biz drama. :rolleyes:


Care to give the gist? Translator doesnt seem to want to work on the page...
Too many pens; too little writing.

#92 Karmachanic

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 07:54

https://translate.ya...com/?lang=ja-en


"Simplicate and add Lightness."


#93 mke

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 08:02

> Translator doesnt seem to want to work on the page...

Copy&Paste the text - and it will work well.

In short, the second-last director got the boot, sued, and probably got money to go.

The new management is on probation. Perform or ...

#94 Intensity

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 14:41

Google Translate link for the whole article:

https://translate.go...ost_168837.html


Edited by Intensity, 21 July 2020 - 14:41.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#95 mke

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 22:21

That dismissed director is on positions which are called amakudari positions. High-ranked bureaucrats get high-ranked positions in industry after their retirement from governmental offices - a kind of grey area of bribery and corruption.

Someone in such a high position getting the boot in Japan is VERY, VERY rare and points to some serious trouble or underperforming.
He is now at Kyocera, let's see if this company is also going down.

#96 AL01

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 02:04

No need to think for them.

Input from outside a company is usually never welcome if you are not a source they trust.
In Japan, they even don't listen to you (my experience of working for 30 years in Japan) - especially not if you are a foreigner.
Haven't you heard the complain of US daughter companies of pen makers, that the Japanese HQs are not listening to them. That is just normal.
On the other hand, the bosses are very much listening to their buddies (best friends) in the Japanese pen scene.
Welcome to the world of Japanese business.

 

 And we are seeing the mess of Carlos Ghosn at the moment...



#97 mke

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 08:14

> the mess of Carlos Ghosn

Do we know what really happened there at Nissan? No, we don't - so let's not speculate too much.

#98 mongrelnomad

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 13:37

 

 And we are seeing the mess of Carlos Ghosn at the moment...

 

There's a compelling argument to be made that blame in the Renault/Nissan mess falls at Macron's feet. As Minister of Economy and Industry, he pushed - against Ghosn's advice - to up the government stake in Renault, by extension underhandedly taking over a Japanese 'big-3' auto-maker for the French state. It's hardly surprising he got Japanese backs up (though this does not excuse their subsequent treatment of Ghosn).


Too many pens; too little writing.

#99 AL01

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 14:27

 Evidently internal memos from top Nissan executives leaked...

 

 Many of the memos called to display Ghosn in a negative light.

 

 While I am not saying that Ghosn is innocent, evidence seems to prove that his ousting may have simply been a result of certain Nissan executives finding dirt on Ghosn at the right time and place. 







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