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Ebay Seller Deceptive Ad - Pen Leaks Badly - Advice?

ebay deception

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#21 Parker51

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 20:15

Regarding leaking pens. I have found that modern cartridge convertor fountain pens have problems just as earlier fountain pens sometimes have. I suspect the difference is that we generally know what the problems are with vintage Fountain Pens that appear intact: sacks needing replaced, or diaphragms, or seals but not so with modern fountain pens as the plastic parts which fail are generally hidden and are part of the structure which holds the pen together tight between the cartridge and the feed.

I purchased a beautiful used Waldmann Sterling Silver with a gold nib. The seller thought it was in excellent condition as it appeared to be. The cartridge convertor would attatch, as would a cartridge and it would leak no mater what. I bought it from a respected seller that guaranteed the pen would not leak and so I was able to return it. It was not able to be repaired as Waldmann used some type of injection molded part which could not be fixed which held the nib assembly in the section and the part was not available from them. As the pen could not be made to work properly I had the option of a refund or an exchange. I chose an exchange for a pen I have been very happy with.

I told this story because it highlights the benefit of buying pens from respected sellers who guarantees their pens and that even such a seller can make a mistake and assume that a modern pen (used) which appears near mint can have a crack that is not visible to the eye. I suspect that the pen was not tested because it appeared to be near mint and we just aren't used to the idea that modern pens fail.

I also purchased a beautiful used (America the Beautiful Model actually) Bexley Fountain Pen at the Ohio Pen Show. The pen appeared to be near mint. I thought, what can go wrong with a ten year old, gently used Bexley Cartridge Convertor and did not try to fill it until after the show. It would not fill. The convertor was stuck to the back of the nib assembly. After much soaking and getting a certain color of blue ink it still was blocked. Eventually I was able to get it all disassembled and found the nib assembly was blocked and sort of melted. The solution was getting a new nib assembly and switching out the nib.

I mention this story because, again there was no visible damage. Does this mean that we may need to start asking to see if almost new pens will fill (with water) using their convertors, and not leak, maybe, because it appears that modern pens may not be any more robust than vintage ones and may requir parts which may or may not be available. I was fortunate with the Bexley as there still are nib units available, but they may not be in the future given the changes with Bexley and some pens are not built using a simple section as the Bexley was that allow for a new nib unit to be screwed in as a replacement and have instead parts unique to not only a manufacturer, but to a specific model as was the Waldmann.

Edited by Parker51, 25 June 2020 - 20:58.


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#22 Seney724

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 20:30

I just bought something on eBay yesterday.  I did not see this.  In fact, I was surprised at how LITTLE sales tax was being collected.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

I assume you know the sales tax for the town in PA where you live Ruth. 

 

What should have been collected is the exact same percentage as if you went into a store in your town and made the same purchase.  Check it and see........

 

If you were charged less, then they did not have the correct information on file for the current tax rate in your town.  If such is the case, then they are actually breaking the law by not collecting the amount of tax they are supposed to collect.  That is the polar opposite of the usual situation where they collect more than they are supposed to collect.

 

This is all simple math.  What most are noticing when they look at the total amount they were charged for State taxes due is the sum of the purchased item PLUS  the shipping charge.  Given in most States there is no tax due on shipping charges, provided that the shipping charge is separated out from the item charge on the invoice (which eBay does do), that sum of the item purchased and the shipping charge represents an over-collection of the amount of State tax due.  This, in turn, increases the buyer's purchase cost total.   Given the relatively small amount of most shipping charges, most buyers  do not recognize what has been done to them.  But multiply that tiny amount per buyer by the millions of eBay sales in the USA per year and all of a sudden you have a very large number of excess dollars collected in the name of taxes due.  What does eBay does with these excess tax collections??  Purely a "rhetorical" question, of course but you can probably figure out what I think they do with them.

 

Needless to say, if the item purchased comes with free shipping or if one lives in a place with no State sales tax this would not apply.

 

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.



#23 Seney724

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 20:48

fpn_1593105303__top-fpn.jpg

How interesting!

My screen does not look the same as yours.........

I do not have that "Rules & Guidelines" tab.

Well, that explains it!

 

Thanks.



#24 Seney724

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 20:51

 

 

Try this link

 

http://www.fountainp...s-terms-of-use/

 

Its a bit clunky to find, the connection to the Rules and Guidelines does not always work, IMHE.

This worked!!

Thank you very much!



#25 Honeybadgers

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:03

this website's "don't you dare oust someone who scammed you or otherwise provided terrible customer service" rule is one I find abjectly ridiculous. There's no way FPN could be held liable for slander in a meaningful way, and all it does is imply that we are not deserving of consumer protections by sharing with one another "who cuts the wheat bread with oat flour", so to speak.


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#26 Paul-in-SF

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:07

Re: sales tax on eBay, I get charged 8.5% on the cost of the item, and having checked several of my purchases they do not appear to be charging sales tax on the shipping (I found a few items where the cost was low relative to the shipping cost so it would be easy to see whether it was included or not). 8.5% is the rate for the place I live, San Francisco. 



#27 Seney724

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:16

this website's "don't you dare oust someone who scammed you or otherwise provided terrible customer service" rule is one I find abjectly ridiculous. There's no way FPN could be held liable for slander in a meaningful way, and all it does is imply that we are not deserving of consumer protections by sharing with one another "who cuts the wheat bread with oat flour", so to speak.

+1



#28 Seney724

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:19

Re: sales tax on eBay, I get charged 8.5% on the cost of the item, and having checked several of my purchases they do not appear to be charging sales tax on the shipping (I found a few items where the cost was low relative to the shipping cost so it would be easy to see whether it was included or not). 8.5% is the rate for the place I live, San Francisco. 

Interesting and thanks for chiming in.........

 

They have most definitely been charging me sales tax on shipping and I found the same in the (admittedly small) sample of people I polled before making the comment.  (Total of 5 people, all from different States)

 

It would be interesting to see what others have experienced.............



#29 Paul-in-SF

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:36

On the other hand, I was just looking to order something on Amazon, and they are charging sales tax on shipping. I guess this is another way they found to stick it to those of us who don't subscribe to Prime. 

 

Wasn't there another thread where this was the primary topic? Maybe we should move this discussion over there?



#30 Seney724

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 03:43

On the other hand, I was just looking to order something on Amazon, and they are charging sales tax on shipping. I guess this is another way they found to stick it to those of us who don't subscribe to Prime. 

 

Wasn't there another thread where this was the primary topic? Maybe we should move this discussion over there?

That's crazy!  When I first realized what eBay was doing to me I immediately reviewed my last six months of Amazon charges. (I am not a Prime member, either).  Amazon never charged me sales tax on my shipping charges whereas eBay did so 100% of the time.  :yikes:

 

"Who's on first?" 

:lol:



#31 Uncial

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 09:10

this website's "don't you dare oust someone who scammed you or otherwise provided terrible customer service" rule is one I find abjectly ridiculous. There's no way FPN could be held liable for slander in a meaningful way, and all it does is imply that we are not deserving of consumer protections by sharing with one another "who cuts the wheat bread with oat flour", so to speak.

 

That can be frustrating, but sometimes it really can only take one post on the internet to begin to have a deeply negative effect on someones business. It is understandable when many others may have had a very positive experience and there's a moral question about whether we have the information in such posts. This thread is a good case in point. We still have no idea what pen it is we are talking about. There are no pictures of the problem making it impossible to know if it is a genuine fault or user error. It isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that it had a bash in the post and something has shifted. Personally I can't see how FPN could adjudicate in such instances as to whether to allow a name to printed as a bad seller when it could be simple error or breakage. The poster here seems, for some reason, to be very keen to give as little information as possible. 

 

On the other hand....where there is a known seller or retail outlet that repeatedly offends and is well known and well documented for it, I think people should know so they can avoid being scammed. That is still an incredibly difficult thing for a website like this to know if it is genuine or not. 



#32 Beechwood

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 09:35

this website's "don't you dare oust someone who scammed you or otherwise provided terrible customer service" rule is one I find abjectly ridiculous. There's no way FPN could be held liable for slander in a meaningful way, and all it does is imply that we are not deserving of consumer protections by sharing with one another "who cuts the wheat bread with oat flour", so to speak.

 

 

In my opinion the barring of Naming and Shaming makes good sense.

 

There have been a number of cases over the years where disgruntled FPN members have tried to declare that the service or quality that they have recieved from a named organisation, whether a pen seller or repairer or even a fellow FPN member has not been acceptable.

 

The reputation of that organisation could be effected by that posted comment.

 

When we hear the story from the other side there is often a very different spin on matters.

 

For example, I know of one experienced pen user, and member on here, who was very critical of a pen repairer. The particular member was no fool when it came to doing their own repairs but sent the pen away, the repairer told him that the cost of the complicated repair would cost more than the pen was worth, did they want to proceed?

 

The member named and shamed the repairer for not having sufficient skills to do good work.

 

The repairer responded with the comment that he had spent several hours on the pen and no charge had been made, including mailing costs.

 

Therefore a complete ban on naming and shaming makes sense.

 

The comment is made "There's no way FPN could be held liable for slander". There is every possiblility that FPN could be brought into a legal action from the  defamed party as the medium that gave oxygen to the libellous comment, if nothing else, FPN could be involved in legal costs and why should FPN expose its balance sheet so that a member can say whatever they wish about another organsisation.


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#33 eachan

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:21

Hi Folks,

I just bought a used pen on eBay that had the description "works very well".  After cleaning it, I tried to ink it up with both a converter and a cartridge.  Neither would seat in the pen and the ink leaked out all over.

The seller offered me less than half the value of the pen + shipping, without return shipping.  I refused the offer and told them that I would be opening a case with eBay and also leaving them a bad review.

Any advice, other than to buy only from known sellers going forward?

Out them by name here?   Is there a thread in FPN where complaints and praise is found?

 

I don't see any benefit  to anyone in bringing this sort of thing to FPN.  Ebay's rules are clear - make use of them!  Open a case and return the pen for a full refund including return shipping.  It's as simple as that.  What other advice do you think you can usefully get from FPN readers?


Regards,

Eachan


#34 Estycollector

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 10:49

The customer is not always correct and especially with little or no evidence provided. 


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#35 inkstainedruth

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 01:33

I assume you know the sales tax for the town in PA where you live Ruth. 

 

What should have been collected is the exact same percentage as if you went into a store in your town and made the same purchase.  Check it and see........

 

If you were charged less, then they did not have the correct information on file for the current tax rate in your town.  If such is the case, then they are actually breaking the law by not collecting the amount of tax they are supposed to collect.  That is the polar opposite of the usual situation where they collect more than they are supposed to collect.

 

This is all simple math.  What most are noticing when they look at the total amount they were charged for State taxes due is the sum of the purchased item PLUS  the shipping charge.  Given in most States there is no tax due on shipping charges, provided that the shipping charge is separated out from the item charge on the invoice (which eBay does do), that sum of the item purchased and the shipping charge represents an over-collection of the amount of State tax due.  This, in turn, increases the buyer's purchase cost total.   Given the relatively small amount of most shipping charges, most buyers  do not recognize what has been done to them.  But multiply that tiny amount per buyer by the millions of eBay sales in the USA per year and all of a sudden you have a very large number of excess dollars collected in the name of taxes due.  What does eBay does with these excess tax collections??  Purely a "rhetorical" question, of course but you can probably figure out what I think they do with them.

 

Needless to say, if the item purchased comes with free shipping or if one lives in a place with no State sales tax this would not apply.

 

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.

 

They did not charge sales tax on the shipping -- that was the point I was trying to make.  I have never had that happen (and the collection of sales tax at all is a recent thing for eBay.   I just did the math (and yes, I do know the sales tax for my county).  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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#36 inkstainedruth

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 01:37

How interesting!

My screen does not look the same as yours.........

I do not have that "Rules & Guidelines" tab.

Well, that explains it!

 

Thanks.

Hover your cursor over the "More" link at the top of the page.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#37 GreenMountain

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 00:31

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the lively discussion!  I don't mind at all if people veer off onto shipping charges.  

In answer to inquiring minds, the pen is a Pilot Custom, vintage 1979, purchased from a seller in Japan.   Before the vendor responded to my request to return the pen I had posted a question in the Japanese pens section asking about the Pilot Custom.  Here is a link provided in that thread:

http://ryojusen-pens.com/17.html

Also, there was mention that I might have better luck with a discontinued CON-W.  Not sure where I would find one.  

Now, what do you all think of trying to convert the pen to an eyedropper?    It really is a nice pen - 18K EF.  I'm going to try, carefully, before I ask eBay to step in with the return.  

 

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#38 Mysterious Mose

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 17:29

Don't leave negative or even neutral feedback.  It's gotten so that eBay's feedback is useless.  

 

When you look at a seller's feedback, you'll get a number and a percentage.  The number is the number of times feedback was left since the beginning of time and the percentage is the percentage of positive feedback left in the last 6 months.  If the seller is an occasional seller and sells, say, 20 items a year, a single negative feedback will result in a 90% feedback rating.  That effectively prevents the seller from ever making another sale or any purchases, even if the seller has reformed.

 

I say this out of personal experience.


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#39 GreenMountain

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 19:12

It turns out the Converter Nipple is broken.  I unscrewed the threaded adapter that  attach the section and body and took some pics, which I've posted on the other thread (on page 2). 

http://www.fountainp...-750/?p=4337350

Anyone know someone who could repair this for me?  If it's a simple operation and not more expensive overall than buying a replacement, I would consider repairing the pen.

Now that I know what a Converter Nipple is, I find that I have another Pilot with a broken Converter Nipple that does not leak.  So, I guess it depends on how badly broken the part is.  And BTW, both pens have exactly the same measurements as measured with a fine caliper, so the problem is not the wrong converter.

 

 


Edited by GreenMountain, 01 July 2020 - 19:12.


#40 steve50

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 20:12

It turns out the Converter Nipple is broken.  I unscrewed the threaded adapter that  attach the section and body and took some pics, which I've posted on the other thread (on page 2). 

http://www.fountainp...-750/?p=4337350

Anyone know someone who could repair this for me?  If it's a simple operation and not more expensive overall than buying a replacement, I would consider repairing the pen.

Now that I know what a Converter Nipple is, I find that I have another Pilot with a broken Converter Nipple that does not leak.  So, I guess it depends on how badly broken the part is.  And BTW, both pens have exactly the same measurements as measured with a fine caliper, so the problem is not the wrong converter.

 

 

 

I doubt it'll be possible to 'repair' the broken nipple... There are people who probably can machine the part for you, but that's likely more costly than the pen itself. 

 

I wonder if there are other cheaper Pilot pens, like the Metropolitan, from which you can take the nipple part out and transplant to yours.  







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