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Please Help Me Choose An Ink

sailor vega medium-fine ink pairing japan

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37 replies to this topic

#21 russwood

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 01:24

Yonaga is one of the inks I'm considering.  I'm trying to find a sample since I don't trust internet color swatches. Monteverde tends to be a bit wetter than I like.

I'm using Yonaga in my Sailor Sapporo and loving it - great navy colour and smooth writing.  Now just to think about adding the Fairy Tales Vega to my Sailor roster ...



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#22 essayfaire

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 20:34

I'm using Yonaga in my Sailor Sapporo and loving it - great navy colour and smooth writing.  Now just to think about adding the Fairy Tales Vega to my Sailor roster ...

What nib size is your Sapporo? I almost got the Blue Dwarf but decided I liked the Fairy Tales Vega better.  I knew I was going to get an MF nib either way.


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#23 russwood

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 21:10

What nib size is your Sapporo? I almost got the Blue Dwarf but decided I liked the Fairy Tales Vega better.  I knew I was going to get an MF nib either way.

Apologies for the late response, I haven't checked in regularly.  The person who gave me this pen (yes, I am truly fortunate, "gave'" is correct!) called the nib a "H-M" - "Hard Medium" and it's a pleasure to use..  My own style is a very flowing cursive with a light hand - if I do indeed add the FairyTale Vega, I'm wondering how the MF nib will compare with the HM - I often use a Kaweco Sport in EF or the Lilliput in M.  My other possibility (if the Vega isn't available) would be a Platinum 3776 in a Soft Fine nib - any experience with that one? 



#24 A Smug Dill

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 02:53

My own style is a very flowing cursive with a light hand - if I do indeed add the FairyTale Vega, I'm wondering how the MF nib will compare with the HM

 

In which way and/or aspects do you expect to compare the two?

The Vega is fitted only with a medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-MF nib.

This is what I do with the medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-M nib: here

This is what I do with the medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-MF nib: here and here (see the lines for the 11-3051-320 model)
 

My other possibility (if the Vega isn't available) would be a Platinum 3776 in a Soft Fine nib - any experience with that one?


here and here


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.


#25 russwood

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Posted 03 July 2020 - 04:28

 

In which way and/or aspects do you expect to compare the two?

The Vega is fitted only with a medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-MF nib.

This is what I do with the medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-M nib: here

This is what I do with the medium-sized, Sailor 1911-imprinted 14K (yellow) gold H-MF nib: here and here (see the lines for the 11-3051-320 model)
 


here and here

Thanks very much - your examples give me the info I was looking for about how the nibs differ on the page.  I'm so very new at this, and at the moment, of course, can't visit the shops as I'd hope to, to check these out in person. 



#26 chemgeek

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 00:59

Two of my favorites are Diamine Ancient Copper and Diamine Marine. Ancient Copper is a reasonable but different choice for professional work, while Marine is just bright and fun. For a more conventional ink color suitable for work I like Diamine Regency Blue. All of these are pretty wet inks in my Sailor Realo and Pilot Custom 823 with M nibs.



#27 essayfaire

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 21:14

Update - I have yet to ink the pen but have done several dip tests.  My findings so far:

 

1. Sailor Soubuku: Nice fine line with feedback, less toothy than my gold F, the color matches the pen well but looks a bit undersaturated for my taste.

 

2. Robert Oster Carbon Fire: Nice shading (even in this small-ish nib) but I still feel lacks the level of saturation I'm looking for

 

3. Sailor Shin-kai: A bit more clarity than the soubuku, somewhat more saturated, still a bit light for my taste in this nib (which honestly, doesn't seem much larger than my F)

 

4. Edelstein Tanzanite: More fluid ink, matches pen well; writes better on Clairefontaine paper than my habitual(more textured) Peter Pauper Press paper

 

5. Diamine Tudor Blue: Not bad visually, but feels a tad dry

 

6. Diamine Blue Velvet: Wetter and brighter; paler than Visconti Blue (I keep a Pelikan permanently inked with that blue)

 

7. Diamine Inkvert Festive Cheer: Wetter and nicely saturated; in this nib it looks more blue than purple.  This ink may be the winner IF an ink labeled "sheening" won't cause a problem. 

 

Smug, am I correct that you would say ink #7 shouldn't cause problems?


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#28 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 21:37


7. Diamine Inkvert Festive Cheer: Wetter and nicely saturated; in this nib it looks more blue than purple.  This ink may be the winner IF an ink labeled "sheening" won't cause a problem. 

 

Smug, am I correct that you would say ink #7 shouldn't cause problems?

"Sheening" is not the same as "Shimmer" or "Glitter". The latter two have reflective particles ideally suspended in the ink (they tend to settle and require one to rotate and rock the pen to get them back into suspension).

 

"Sheen" is more like an oil slick on rainwater -- as the ink settles on paper it may slightly separate into component dyes that become apparent when viewed at an angle (and not the same as "shading", which I believe is when the main body of the fluid ink follows the nib, leaving a thin dye later at the start of strokes which dry rapidly, followed by a thick layer at the end of the stroke which doesn't backwash into the dry stroke).



#29 A Smug Dill

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 01:51

This ink may be the winner IF an ink labeled "sheening" won't cause a problem. 
 
Smug, am I correct that you would say ink #7 shouldn't cause problems?

 
Yes, I'd say that, ...

 

... but that's me and my appetite for "risk" when it comes to the use of my fountain pens, which some seem to think amounts to an unhealthy and unbecoming disregard for objects (and/or brands with plenty of history and heritage).

 

Notwithstanding that Sailor is my favourite brand out of the Japanese 'Big Three', which each has over 100 years of history, here we're talking about a converter-filled fountain pen with a mass-produced, dark-coloured plastic body with a basic gold nib in the Fairy Tales Vega; what kind of problems could anyone foresee being caused by any commercial fountain pen ink? The ink can't stain the gripping section, the nib and feed are friction-fit and can be pulled out easily enough for a deep clean if necessary, and the converter can be fully disassembled should its inner walls require a light scrubbing if flushing doesn't clear all the colour out when switching inks. As with any other ink, it's a good idea not to let the ink dry inside the pen; but I can trust the cap on a Sailor Professional Gear Slim to seal very effectively when the pen is unused.

 

Sailor makes heaps of highly-saturated and sheeny inks, in its Shikiori and other product lines. I personally wouldn't worry about undue risk from using any of those, or Diamine Cult Pens Iridescinks (sheeny), in my Sailor Professional Gear (Slim) pens, when I'm happy enough to put iron-gall inks (e.g. KWZ Ink IG Turquoise, Hero 232) and particle inks (e.g. Sailor souboku, Platinum Carbon Black, Diamine Shimmering Seas) in them. I have an ultrasonic cleaner, and now finally some (industrial-strength) aqueous ammonia. (Clear ammonia is not something Joe Consumer can just buy in supermarket, pharmacies or building hardware stores in Australia.)

 

You probably already know whether Diamine Inkvert Festive Cheer would dry on the nib when pausing one's writing briefly, from its use in other pens in your operating environment. That's one thing I cannot take into account; Sydney weather is pretty mild, all things considered. Sailor's nibs and feeds aren't commonly prone to that kind of issue themselves.


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.


#30 essayfaire

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 21:00

 
Yes, I'd say that, ...

 

... but that's me and my appetite for "risk" when it comes to the use of my fountain pens, which some seem to think amounts to an unhealthy and unbecoming disregard for objects (and/or brands with plenty of history and heritage).

 

Notwithstanding that Sailor is my favourite brand out of the Japanese 'Big Three', which each has over 100 years of history, here we're talking about a converter-filled fountain pen with a mass-produced, dark-coloured plastic body with a basic gold nib in the Fairy Tales Vega; what kind of problems could anyone foresee being caused by any commercial fountain pen ink? The ink can't stain the gripping section, the nib and feed are friction-fit and can be pulled out easily enough for a deep clean if necessary, and the converter can be fully disassembled should its inner walls require a light scrubbing if flushing doesn't clear all the colour out when switching inks. As with any other ink, it's a good idea not to let the ink dry inside the pen; but I can trust the cap on a Sailor Professional Gear Slim to seal very effectively when the pen is unused.

 

Sailor makes heaps of highly-saturated and sheeny inks, in its Shikiori and other product lines. I personally wouldn't worry about undue risk from using any of those, or Diamine Cult Pens Iridescinks (sheeny), in my Sailor Professional Gear (Slim) pens, when I'm happy enough to put iron-gall inks (e.g. KWZ Ink IG Turquoise, Hero 232) and particle inks (e.g. Sailor souboku, Platinum Carbon Black, Diamine Shimmering Seas) in them. I have an ultrasonic cleaner, and now finally some (industrial-strength) aqueous ammonia. (Clear ammonia is not something Joe Consumer can just buy in supermarket, pharmacies or building hardware stores in Australia.)

 

You probably already know whether Diamine Inkvert Festive Cheer would dry on the nib when pausing one's writing briefly, from its use in other pens in your operating environment. That's one thing I cannot take into account; Sydney weather is pretty mild, all things considered. Sailor's nibs and feeds aren't commonly prone to that kind of issue themselves.

Of course I understand that my milage and risk tolerance may vary.  Thank you for your insights - you have a much deeper knowledge of such things than do I so I find your opinions/experiences useful.

 

I think by difficult I usually mean cloggy - I don't like strong chemicals in my home and thus try to avoid using anything that would require ammonia to clean out under normal circumstances.  Of course, I do have some on hand for when circumstances are abnormal.

 

The Festive Cheer just arrived so that dip test was my first use of it. I don't usually ignore my pens long enough for the ink to dry up, except for one that was my grandfather's that I like to keep filled with Ina-ho, which is not an ink I use regularly. If one of my pens dries out I usually consider that a fault of the pen rather than the ink. My climate is hot and humid for over half the year. 


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#31 Arkanabar

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 00:02

Yonaga is one of the inks I'm considering.  I'm trying to find a sample since I don't trust internet color swatches. Monteverde tends to be a bit wetter than I like.

You are prudent not to trust online color swatches.  eta:  one of the waypoints on the inky journey is "What you see ain't what you get."  They are affected by ink, pen, paper, lighting, camera/scanner software and settings, any corrections or artifacts from the photo processing software, and settings for your graphics card and monitor.

 

However, it is possible to get an idea of how your setup affects colors, and then to look at multiple online color examples, in the hopes of getting some feel for what an ink might look like in your own use-case.


Edited by Arkanabar, 11 July 2020 - 00:03.


#32 essayfaire

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 16:16


 
[font=georgia, serif]However, it is possible to get an idea of how your setup affects colors, and then to look at multiple online color examples, in the hopes of getting some feel for what an ink might look like in your own use-case.


That's a wonderful idea. I'm somewhat embarrased that it hadn't occured to me prior to your mentioning it. Thanks.

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#33 Buzz_130

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:20

Another option is to order samples. You don't need to make a $20+ commitment to an ink you may not like (or work well in your pen) when you get get a couple of ml of ink to fill you pen and give it a try.

 

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#34 essayfaire

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 20:45

"Sheening" is not the same as "Shimmer" or "Glitter". The latter two have reflective particles ideally suspended in the ink (they tend to settle and require one to rotate and rock the pen to get them back into suspension).

 

"Sheen" is more like an oil slick on rainwater -- as the ink settles on paper it may slightly separate into component dyes that become apparent when viewed at an angle (and not the same as "shading", which I believe is when the main body of the fluid ink follows the nib, leaving a thin dye later at the start of strokes which dry rapidly, followed by a thick layer at the end of the stroke which doesn't backwash into the dry stroke).

I somehow missed this response; thank you for the clarification.  This makes sense and makes me less afraid of using something marked "sheen."


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#35 essayfaire

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 13:54

I have a winner!

 

I have continued my testing with numerous samples, and Robert Oster's Tokyo Blue Denim was closer than most, but still not precisely what I wanted.  I obtained a sample of the Diamine Registrars, but think it will be better matched to a different pen.

 

I am currently using Taccia Ukiyo-e Hokusai Koiai.  The ink is flowing well, drying quickly enough for my needs, the color has the teeniest bit of dimension to it without looking frivolous.  The ink is wet enough that the pen is playing better with some of the papers it had difficulty with earlier.  I was fond of the Rohrer and Klingner Verdigris but thought it slightly too dry for this nib.

 

So Hokusai Koiai it is; guess I'm back to, "Use Japanese inks in Japanese pens!" :)


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#36 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 10:04

I chase two toned shading inks, but your nib is too narrow to use with most shading inks. Japanese M-F = a fat western EF or thin F.

 

I find a western M to shade better than a western F.

Could be true for Sheen also. I'm a Sheen noobie. :unsure:


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www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#37 essayfaire

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 20:33

I chase two toned shading inks, but your nib is too narrow to use with most shading inks. Japanese M-F = a fat western EF or thin F.

 

I find a western M to shade better than a western F.

Could be true for Sheen also. I'm a Sheen noobie. :unsure:

It seems to me - and perhaps it is my imagination - that two-toned shading inks (or shimmering inks) can lend some character when used with nibs that remain too narrow to allow the writer/reader to consciously recognize there are two different tones or a "sheen" element.


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#38 A Smug Dill

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 22:37

It seems to me - and perhaps it is my imagination - that two-toned shading inks (or shimmering inks) can lend some character when used with nibs that remain too narrow to allow the writer/reader to consciously recognize there are two different tones or a "sheen" element.

 
Yes. I have posted examples here and there, and @LizEF's "Efnir" (Extra fine nib ink reviews) series has shown shading produced with an exemplary Japanese EF nib for many different inks, e.g. for Pilot Blue/Black:

and Iroshizuku Kiri-same:

 


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sailor, vega, medium-fine, ink pairing, japan



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