Are There Any Great Deals For Vintage Pens At Shows?

[Hanoi]

I plan to attend at least one just to see what´s all the fuss. But since my main focus for attending one is to buy, I wonder if it´s worth the travel and hotel expense.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Hanoi

[BlueJ]

It won't be worth it if you're just looking for lower prices, though sometimes you can negotiate with motivated sellers.

Generally though, the value of shows is in seeing what's out there that is unfamiliar to you, handling and dip-testing a range of pens to find out how well they really suit you, making side-by-side comparisons and so on.

 

Of course, this year many shows are being cancelled, and travel to any that do happen may be more difficult than usual, so this also affects the value equation.

[I-am-not-really-here]

If you want to see what all the fuss is about you hardly have to spend any money at all. Go to Youtube and search “fountain pen shows 2019.”

[Barry Gabay]

Having attended US pen shows for more than 30 years, I would like to say that there is nothing quite like one for a serious pen fan. At the first show I attended, I met people with whom I have remained friendly all this time. We have watched one another's children grow into adults, watched ourselves and our wive become more and more happily decrepit, and of course, bought and sold many, many fountain pens during that time. There are pen show regulars and members of this community who are no longer alive, who are frequently discussed and missed.

 

As far as deals are concerned, they certainly exist. I attended pen shows as a "civilian" for about 10 years before investing in a table and becoming a vendor. There are still some shows I attend as a weekend trader and do not get a table. I have found deals exist at pen shows because there is genuine competition among sellers. Imagine, for eg, being in the main room at a large pen show where there are hundreds (no exaggeration) of Parker Big Red Duofolds for sale. They will range from very ragged to mint in the original box, and their prices will reflect their condition and rarity. There is certainly a desire among table holders to sell their pens, and reasonable people are willing to negotiate. Depending on what you are seeking, you may find it at a large show or meet someone who knows where you can find it. Generally, I sell pens at shows for less than I do online. At a show, there is no cost of postage and insurance, and payment is immediate. To me, those advantages are certainly worth selling a pen for less than i would online, perhaps waiting months to do so. Pen shows also are places where retailers move their inventory to make room for more. There are deals on new pens for this reason.

 

Finally, the most important and rewarding aspect of attending pen shows is meeting people with whom we have so much in common. I have found pen show vendors and attendees are very open and willing to share information with anyone who asks. Long and detailed conversations regarding particular models, eras, manufacturers, materials often continue in the bar, dining room, or lounge long after the show has closed for the day. Because I was so appreciative of the veterans i met at my early pen shows, I am willing and even eager to help people who are new to the hobby when I meet them. I have met many sterling folks at shows with whom I had corresponded online, some for years before meeting. Everything I've said above about pen fans also applies to those with a particular interest in inks and various paper. Pen shows are quite simply a perfect introduction and education into the writing culture.

 

Because of the world's current health crisis, there is no telling what pen shows will resemble when they resume in a few months. We all hope for the best but must remain realistic. I have all 12 fingers & toes crossed that future shows will be safely operated, well attended, and enjoyed by all in good health.

[Parker51]

Worth traveling to a pen show, maybe, depending on what your general travel/ vacation budget and plans are.

If you are comfortable with spending significant amounts of money for an experiance and going to a pen show is an activity you might want to experiance, then compare the cost of the show you might want to attend compared to another activity you have done and valued.

This schema works with considering any travel plans and evaluating success and failure.

As example, I have a friend who went on vacation from Ohio to Hawaii. He and his family spent a lot of money on that trip. It was enjoyable, but less than trips he regularly takes to West Virginia to go Fly Fishing. His trips to West Virginia cost significantly less, so for him, his evaluation was that vacation was a failure, not because it was bad, but because it did not provide a return on his expenditure greater than other alternatives.

If you will be traveling from the Philipines and you travel regularly to the US then you know that cost is quite high and the travel is not pleasante given the length of the journey and the nature of air travel today. I know someone who did not make that trip the other way when his father died due to this situation. He instead carefully plans his trips there and back for every two years, shops for God fares and stays in the Philipines for two months at a time, staying at his families Villa (his family is quite wealthy). If you are like him, a person of moderate income, then going to a pen show in the US from the Philipines makes no sense. But, if you routinely travel that path, have plenty of air miles and can get an upgrade to business class, and plan on spending $10,000.00 US or above then yes, it probably makes sense as your routine vacations likely involve you spending $10,000.00 a week, per person routinely (4 to 6 vacations a year). And if you have access to a very large amount of funds like a former coworker of mine who travels from Ohio to Hong Kong for most every holiday and for a HK Yaht club race (the patriarch of the family races his yaht regularly), then attending a Pen Show likely would save you some money as the other activities you engage in cost a lot more, just in travel expenses and luxury accommodations.

 

For regular people, unless you live close enough that you have travel expenses under a $1,000.00, then no it doesn't make sense unless you can include it with a family vacation so the effective cost is under $1,000.00.

[inkstainedruth]

@ Hanoi -- Can you find deals on vintage pens at shows? Sometimes. Maybe. It depends....

As was said before, there is value in being able to see pens in person, and handle them (something that might have been a "grail pen" for you might turn out to be too short/heavy/whatever when you actually have it in your hands, and then you've saved money. OTOH, you may be able to see a vast variety of Pen X in the color you want, and can shop around for what is the best deal for you (although it helps to bring a small notebook to keep track of where you saw them, especially at the larger shows).

Of course, the flip side you might find something that you didn't know about that has been just waiting for you to buy it....

One of the things on my wish list had been a Parker 75 Ciselé. So last fall, when I was at the Ohio Pen Show, I scoped out every 75 there. Asked questions of the various vendors, and educated myself (one vendor had several different ones and I was able to say "Okay, what's the difference between pen A and pen B and pen C?"). I ended up not buying one at the show (partly because I found something else that caught my eye and which at also been on the wish list for longer). But just being able to learn the differences between the different versions made me more comfortable about buying one just in general, because I knew what to be looking for. Ended up paying more for one on eBay, with tax and shipping than I would have at the show (and in a couple of cases by quite a lot -- but of course by the time I worked my way back around to where the best deals were, someone else had gotten there first). But I still, I think, did okay because I knew what I was looking at for the eBay listing, and am happy with the one I got.

That's the real upside to shows -- not that you will necessarily find your grail pen for a steal (or even at all) but that you will have knowledgeable people be able to explain and show the differences.

And that doesn't even include the classes and workshops. Plus if you get a weekend pass, rather than just pay by the day the way I did at the first couple of shows, that gets you into the parties and just get to meet people who of course are there at the show for the same reasons you are -- a love of fountain pens). And some shows have auctions at them, and yes, you can even get deals on pens at the auctions (I know that I did a couple of times -- and I really didn't expect to be able to afford anything at them).

And if you're worried about being on a budget, you can do what I've done at some of the shows I've been to: stay someplace in the area that is less expensive so you have more money to spend at the show itself.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[silverlifter]

Having attended US pen shows for more than 30 years, I would like to say that there is nothing quite like one for a serious pen fan...

 

God, Barry: your post is killing me! There are no pen shows at the moment, and when they do resume they will be half a world away and now, thanks to you, the FOMO levels are at Extreme!

[Wolverine1]

Hanoi- going to Pen Shows is a good thing, and I would encourage you to go and attend a few. Only caveat being this - wait till this COVID-19 lockdowns and all associated rules and regulations are lifted and things are back to normal. Which means to maybe wait till 2021 to go to Pen Shows.

[mana]

Since you are based in the Philippines I would suggest seeking out local pen show like the Manila Pen Show. From what I have heard people are seriously passionate about pens over there and even a local meetup can (well, used to before COVID-19) have an attendance of 20-30 people.

[inkstainedruth]

Oh another thing I just thought of, with mana's suggestion of the Manila show -- sometimes the organizers will work out a deal with an ink manufacturer and have some custom inks made specifically for that show, either for sale as an LE or as swag that is handed out when you check in.

Right now, I'm sort of sweating out conditions for the Triangle Pen Show (which got postponed until the middle of August) because of coronavirus fears. I wasn't going to go because it's a fairly long drive from Pittsburgh (longer for me because I have a bad back and have to stop more often to walk around than I used to be able to manage), even though I've enjoyed myself the two times I've gone (and the second time my husband came along for at least part of it). But then he said that he'd be willing to go down if he can either take some vacation time or can figure out how to work remotely from the hotel room (the issue being is that he has a work laptop AND a work desktop computer, and most of the stuff he's actually working on is on the desktop one; plus he may have to go up to see his mom at some point -- where he will have the same work issues). She's in failing health, and his youngest brother has been hospitalized for several weeks (no, not COVID-19) plus has been undergoing chemo treatments for cancer (we're going back and forth on whether it's worth me going along because we can't stay at the house, with his mom's live-in caregiver).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Hanoi]

Hi guys I really appreciate many pensive responses to my query. I do agree that being able to handle many old and rare pens will likely save me money in the future acquiring as I would quickly learn which vintage pens I like best at the show. In USA, Europe and Asia which shows are the biggest/best? I will plan my schedule in a way that I can attend at least one show in the coming years.

[Parker51]

Its complicated. Each show has its own characteristics. Some are very small, some large and some very large.

In the US typically a show is put on by a show promotor. The venue typically will be a Hotel Ballroom. Vendors will be set up with what they are selling at tables. Some vendors represent shops, both virtual and brick and mortar, some represent manufacturers, some are the manufacturer, some are repair people, some may sell tools to repair pens, some may sell vintage parts, some sell paper, some ink, many will sell vintage pens and many will sell new pens and many will sell both vintage and new pens. While there are professionals at shows, most of the people there are hobbiests, this includes a large amount of those that set up to sell and most of the people who are there to buy.

 

There likely will be special sessions away from the main show were there may be classes in caligraphy, nib adjustment, buying pens or anything else pen related that the organizer agrees to,that someone wants to present. There may be fees for some classes. Also there may be presentations on pen histories, talks by authors of books on pens or pen related subjects. These typically do not have any extra charges.

 

There likely will be an auction of pens, typically vintage. Some places,have two auctions. Auctions typically are only open to

Vendors and weekend participants. These people pay for the privelage to set up and have table space in the case of the vendors and to attend all days and all hours for the weekend participants.

 

In regard to what type of admission to buy, I suggest weekend participant if you are traveling far as the public hours tend to be busy and with a large show it may be difficult to see everything you are interested in and talk to the vendors, especially of you are going to any of the classes and presentations, in one day.

 

Now some fine points. This is all said in relation to US shows. In the US Fountain Pens are a hobby. Few people take them seriously even though they are serious about the hobby. Yes, that sounds confusing, but what is comes down to is no one needs any of these pens, be they a $5.00 pen or a $5,000.00 pen. As such matters related to Fountain Pens are typically handled in a friendly way. Most prices with most vendors are not totally fixed. Vintage pens especially are subject to negotiation in regard to prices. Aggressive and antagonistic behavior generally is not exhibited and not tolerated. It is not a place full of poor people trying to make a living desperate for a sale. And it is not a place full of rich merchants happy to sell you junk to make them a tidy profit. As such, you the participant and potential customer are neither the king nor the supplicant. That does not mean there aren't bargains, there are, not that some items are not overpriced, they will be, especially if the seller really likes the pen they are selling, possibly from their personal collection.

 

From what I have read, this description may not apply to all Pen shows outside the US. I leave it to those who have experianced shows in other places to characterize the shows there in detail. I have read that in some places Pen Shows are not seen as and treated as extensions of a Hobby, but as more purely commercial endeavors.

 

Personally I am not interested in a purely commercial show, irrespective of the possibility of getting a bargain or two at one. There are other kinds of shows in the US full of those kinds of people and they are no fun as they take offense when you know more than they do, are hypersensitive about what they are selling, even if it is junk and in general are not nice people, perhaps never happy and always just trying to maximize transferring my funds into their pocket and will never share information or advice unless there is something in it for them immediately. I know this because I have been going to Antique shows for the better part of 45 years and many dealers at Antique shows take what they are selling very seriously and are pursuing it as a purely commercial endeavor.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Parker51

[Estycollector]

Wow, that's a pretty cynical view of others.

 

I've been going to guitar shows and antique malls for years. It is the same as when buying off eBay, the buyer must be knowledgable and disciplined. Ask questions, learn, perform due diligence in searching broadly and creatively.

 

If I went to a show and there was an Esterbrook with a 1000 series nib for $50, I should know that's too much. You should know which Parker 51's are rare and the market price in advance. Just like eBay, you can find some for $50 and others for $500 for the same pen. And, just because its a good deal doesn't mean you should buy it.

 

Often taking an expert along for the ride will help in finding an authentic example.

[Parker51]

Well, my wife and I routinely due simple acts of kindness and charity towards others and we are told repeatedly that no one has ever done that for them. We have been told repeatedly we are angels for doing things we think are simple decencies. We have seldom experianced others doing so towards us. So, yes my attitude has become quite cynical.

 

Also in my professional life I seldom witnessed or was told about someone being nice or generous to my clients, all who have developmental disabilities, most who are pleasant helpful people. On the contrary I was aware of a large amount of minor to major offenses against them and actual and attempted financial and other exploitation. In my field some of this is classified as Major Unusual Incidents and any crime against one with said disability is treated extra seriously by the law. We had an entire department dedicated to investigating MUIs and they don't adress all criminal activity perpetrated against our clients. In regard to children, Children Services have that responsibility.

 

So yes, for over thirty years on a daily basis I would get calls about someone being taken advantage of by someone else, sometimes financial and sometimes other categories. These are disabled people, often dependent on others and sometimes those others, their own family members in some cases, would be the ones doing the financial exploitation.

[inkstainedruth]

To answer Hanoi's question, DCSS is probably one the largest in the US (but it got cancelled for this year). I have not been to any of the shows on the West Coast so I can't say how they compare size-wise. I also have not been to DCSS since the site change, because normally it conflicts with our regular vacation. Since that got cancelled, I had hopes.... That is probably also the most prestigious show in the US, because it used to be that the big companies would introduce new models of pens and new colors of ink.

The best show I've been to specifically for vintage pens is probably the Ohio Pen Show, usually the first weekend in November. The organizer lost the old hotel (it got sold to a company that was taking it out of the convention business); I've heard that a new location has been found, but of course don't know what will happen with coronavirus stuff this far out. It's not as large as the DC show, but it's still pretty big, and it's the show I've been to most often because it's the closest one to where I live. Probably my favorite of the shows I've been to, because it's not as big and crowded and generally overwhelming as DC (which was the first show I ever went to -- in retrospect that was probably NOT the first show someone should go to, especially as a newbie to to the hobby the way I was.... But I went with a friend and it turned out to be a win-win all around (I had someone to split the cost of the hotel room, my friend didn't have a car, and my husband was happy I wasn't driving 5+ hours on almost no sleep because I'd flown back from the West Coast the day before going down to the show. Of course he was NOT happy that my friend (FPN member Uncle Red, who I've known almost as long as my husband) turned out to be a complete enabler.... Two of the three pens I bought were because Red said "If you don't buy them, I will..." and also dragged me over to the Indy-Pen-Dance table on Sunday morning (on Richard Binder's advice) to get the third pen -- an Azure Blue Pearl Vacumatic Sub-Debutante -- repaired and working (the repairs cost more than the pen -- so that's one of my "yes, you can get deals on pens" anectdotal stories: I think I only paid $30 for the pen to begin with...).

I've also been to the Triangle Pen Show a couple of times and the Baltimore-Washington show once. They both are a bit smaller than OPS. I have not been to the new sites for either of those; my husband and I were considering driving down to the Triangle Show (which is in the Raleigh, NC area) but are not sure whether it will be safe yet (we just heard that NC had a spike in COVID-19 cases last week). It's normally the end of May/beginning of June, but got pushed back till the middle of August.

I've also been a few times to the Commonwealth Pen Show, just north of Boston. It's very small in comparison to the other shows I've attended (just one day) but it gives us an excuse to go visit my husband's mother for the weekend -- drive up to the Boston area, visit with her on Friday night and Saturday, and then Sunday I drop him off at her house and then drive to the show, then pick him up in the late afternoon and we get as far as we can that night, and drive the rest of the way on Monday. Have not yet heard if that show is happening yet -- someone posted a few weeks ago that there will be an announcement one way or the other the beginning of August (that show is the middle of September, generally).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Oh, that's another plus to shows -- the repair people are right there, and you can sign up to have pens re-sacced or nibs tweaked or reground, right there on the spot. You usually give them your cellphone # and they'll call you when you're next up on the list, although I usually keep just checking back over the course of the day to see how many people they've gotten through who are ahead of me on the list.

Edited June 16, 2020 by inkstainedruth

[Hanoi]

Maybe one day I run into you at a show lol

 

 

@ Hanoi -- Can you find deals on vintage pens at shows? Sometimes. Maybe. It depends....

As was said before, there is value in being able to see pens in person, and handle them (something that might have been a "grail pen" for you might turn out to be too short/heavy/whatever when you actually have it in your hands, and then you've saved money. OTOH, you may be able to see a vast variety of Pen X in the color you want, and can shop around for what is the best deal for you (although it helps to bring a small notebook to keep track of where you saw them, especially at the larger shows).

Of course, the flip side you might find something that you didn't know about that has been just waiting for you to buy it....

One of the things on my wish list had been a Parker 75 Ciselé. So last fall, when I was at the Ohio Pen Show, I scoped out every 75 there. Asked questions of the various vendors, and educated myself (one vendor had several different ones and I was able to say "Okay, what's the difference between pen A and pen B and pen C?"). I ended up not buying one at the show (partly because I found something else that caught my eye and which at also been on the wish list for longer). But just being able to learn the differences between the different versions made me more comfortable about buying one just in general, because I knew what to be looking for. Ended up paying more for one on eBay, with tax and shipping than I would have at the show (and in a couple of cases by quite a lot -- but of course by the time I worked my way back around to where the best deals were, someone else had gotten there first). But I still, I think, did okay because I knew what I was looking at for the eBay listing, and am happy with the one I got.

That's the real upside to shows -- not that you will necessarily find your grail pen for a steal (or even at all) but that you will have knowledgeable people be able to explain and show the differences.

And that doesn't even include the classes and workshops. Plus if you get a weekend pass, rather than just pay by the day the way I did at the first couple of shows, that gets you into the parties and just get to meet people who of course are there at the show for the same reasons you are -- a love of fountain pens). And some shows have auctions at them, and yes, you can even get deals on pens at the auctions (I know that I did a couple of times -- and I really didn't expect to be able to afford anything at them).

And if you're worried about being on a budget, you can do what I've done at some of the shows I've been to: stay someplace in the area that is less expensive so you have more money to spend at the show itself.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Hanoi]

yep, would not to have my nibs modified by the experts on my more expensive pens. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

 

To answer Hanoi's question, DCSS is probably one the largest in the US (but it got cancelled for this year). I have not been to any of the shows on the West Coast so I can't say how they compare size-wise. I also have not been to DCSS since the site change, because normally it conflicts with our regular vacation. Since that got cancelled, I had hopes.... That is probably also the most prestigious show in the US, because it used to be that the big companies would introduce new models of pens and new colors of ink.

The best show I've been to specifically for vintage pens is probably the Ohio Pen Show, usually the first weekend in November. The organizer lost the old hotel (it got sold to a company that was taking it out of the convention business); I've heard that a new location has been found, but of course don't know what will happen with coronavirus stuff this far out. It's not as large as the DC show, but it's still pretty big, and it's the show I've been to most often because it's the closest one to where I live. Probably my favorite of the shows I've been to, because it's not as big and crowded and generally overwhelming as DC (which was the first show I ever went to -- in retrospect that was probably NOT the first show someone should go to, especially as a newbie to to the hobby the way I was.... But I went with a friend and it turned out to be a win-win all around (I had someone to split the cost of the hotel room, my friend didn't have a car, and my husband was happy I wasn't driving 5+ hours on almost no sleep because I'd flown back from the West Coast the day before going down to the show. Of course he was NOT happy that my friend (FPN member Uncle Red, who I've known almost as long as my husband) turned out to be a complete enabler.... Two of the three pens I bought were because Red said "If you don't buy them, I will..." and also dragged me over to the Indy-Pen-Dance table on Sunday morning (on Richard Binder's advice) to get the third pen -- an Azure Blue Pearl Vacumatic Sub-Debutante -- repaired and working (the repairs cost more than the pen -- so that's one of my "yes, you can get deals on pens" anectdotal stories: I think I only paid $30 for the pen to begin with...).

I've also been to the Triangle Pen Show a couple of times and the Baltimore-Washington show once. They both are a bit smaller than OPS. I have not been to the new sites for either of those; my husband and I were considering driving down to the Triangle Show (which is in the Raleigh, NC area) but are not sure whether it will be safe yet (we just heard that NC had a spike in COVID-19 cases last week). It's normally the end of May/beginning of June, but got pushed back till the middle of August.

I've also been a few times to the Commonwealth Pen Show, just north of Boston. It's very small in comparison to the other shows I've attended (just one day) but it gives us an excuse to go visit my husband's mother for the weekend -- drive up to the Boston area, visit with her on Friday night and Saturday, and then Sunday I drop him off at her house and then drive to the show, then pick him up in the late afternoon and we get as far as we can that night, and drive the rest of the way on Monday. Have not yet heard if that show is happening yet -- someone posted a few weeks ago that there will be an announcement one way or the other the beginning of August (that show is the middle of September, generally).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Oh, that's another plus to shows -- the repair people are right there, and you can sign up to have pens re-sacced or nibs tweaked or reground, right there on the spot. You usually give them your cellphone # and they'll call you when you're next up on the list, although I usually keep just checking back over the course of the day to see how many people they've gotten through who are ahead of me on the list.

 

[sharonspens]

Since you are based in the Philippines I would suggest seeking out local pen show like the Manila Pen Show. From what I have heard people are seriously passionate about pens over there and even a local meetup can (well, used to before COVID-19) have an attendance of 20-30 people.

I was just about to make a similar comment about finding a show locally (vs. travel to the States). You said it so perfectly.

 

Sharon in Indiana

[Pmcl2992]

Hopefully we will all be able to attend pen shows soon.