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Converting Paper Weight In Pounds To Gsm


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19 replies to this topic

#1 Paul-in-SF

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 23:01

I find this a bit confusing. For example, I have two notebooks, one with 90 gsm paper, one with 24 lb. paper. They feel very similar regarding weight, but the conversion calculators I have found tell me that the 24-lb. paper is equivalent to only about 36 gsm. That doesn't make sense to me, since 52 gsm Tomoe River paper is much lighter than the 24-lb. paper in the notebook. 

 

The notebook with the 24-lb. paper is from the UK, do they have different paper weight standards over there? 

 

My regular printer paper is 20 lb. and isn't especially thin but of course isn't very good quality. I also have a ream of 32 lb."premium" paper which is quite thick indeed, thicker than the paper in either notebook. 

 

Is there a good resource where a paper beginner like me can read up on these paper weight standards? 



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#2 carlos.q

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 23:41

You could start here:

https://www.paperpap...er-weights.html



#3 ENewton

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 23:47

 

Is there a simpler explanation somewhere?



#4 effrafax

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 01:00

 

Is there a simpler explanation somewhere?

No, it's a stupidly convoluted system.

 

Give me gsm any day.

 

P.S. Surprised that paper from the UK is specified is poundage.  They've used gsm for donkeys years.


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Effrafax.

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#5 bobs51

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 01:06

This chart may help. The confusing part is the size of the standard sheet for the Basis weight changes with the type of paper, but the chart should give you the equivalent weights without worrying about the underlying calculations.

 

http://www.papermart...ploads/gsm2.pdf



#6 Paul-in-SF

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 03:07

This chart may help. The confusing part is the size of the standard sheet for the Basis weight changes with the type of paper, but the chart should give you the equivalent weights without worrying about the underlying calculations.

 

http://www.papermart...ploads/gsm2.pdf

 

Thank you, that's what I needed.



#7 A Smug Dill

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 08:38

No, it's a stupidly convoluted system.
 
Give me gsm any day.

 
Agreed. Grams per square metre applies to any size, and someone can ask for uncommon sheet sizes in Australia, Europe or Japan and still make a meaningful comparison, whereas if someone in the US is looking for A4 standard (as opposed to "standard A4", with due respect to the fact that A4 is a universal standard but isn't what people in the US use commonly or as standard practice) sheets or notebooks for whatever reason, using the basis weight just confuses.
 
Or maybe it just confuses me. A4 is 210x297mm, and hence the surface area is 0.06237m² per sheet. One ream of 500 sheets of 100gsm paper would therefore weigh 3.1185kg, or 67/8_pounds, but that doesn't seem to compare to anything sensible when looking at the common basis weights of printer/copier paper sold in the US. A conversion chart isn't nearly as helpful as declaring what the "basis" for A4 paper is. As it's stated on the page at http://www.papermartinc.com/wp-content/uploads/gsm2.pdf (suggested above, for a conversion chart):

 

As different weights and types of paper are manufactured in different sized sheets, this makes it particularly difficult to compare the many types of paper.


Why make life difficult?


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#8 XYZZY

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 17:57

I think the good analogy for paper weights is t-shirt sizes:  S, M, L etc.  It's a good enough ball-park that it's not unreasonable to start there, but it doesn't mean it will fit, be comfortable, etc (wait, you wanted breathable, durable and water repellent?)

 

I agree the American "system" is silly: not just because basis weight is not directly measurable by the customer, but because it requires an unreasonable amount of domain specific knowledge to even know what is being measured.

 

Like t-shirt sizes, the weight tells you little.  "Will 70gsm paper be suitable?" is just as under-specified a question as "Will 20lb paper be suitable?".  



#9 A Smug Dill

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:40

I think the good analogy for paper weights is t-shirt sizes:  S, M, L etc.


I'd love to agree with you on that, but I honestly can't. I love (some, although not all) Under Armour apparel, but even within the same brand and just for tops — ergo, for which the same sizing chart is given by the manufacturer — I have to get different sizes in one style versus the next to fit. I mostly wear Medium in the brand's range (including both compression, 'athletic fit' and loose tops), but in some styles I have to get Small (or I'd be swimming in it; and, yes, I've tried the Medium one in a bricks-and-mortar retail store), and others I have to get Large, for the garments to fit my body properly all on the same day.
 

It's a good enough ball-park that it's not unreasonable to start there, but it doesn't mean it will fit, be comfortable, etc (wait, you wanted breathable, durable and water repellent?)


If one's requirements (for a particular application?) is multi-faceted, then it makes sense that the paper weight metric only addresses (at most?) one facet.
 

Like t-shirt sizes, the weight tells you little.  "Will 70gsm paper be suitable?" is just as under-specified a question as "Will 20lb paper be suitable?".


That said, the g/m² metric is very helpful when I was trying to estimate how much a sheet would weigh for mailing purposes, or how much 4,000 sheets of Tomoe River 68gsm paper would weigh and hence cost me to ship from Japan if I were to place an online order.

The problem is when consumers/people look for "perfect fit" with their discretionary spending, but most of the time they aren't even consciously aware, much less are able to articulate, all their requirements for one or more applications to which they want to put a product or service. I personally don't think the idea/objective of published standards is for prospective users to get what is "perfect" or even "suitable", but simply to allow them to individually perform gap analysis against what they need or want, and decide the impact of accepting a given compromise.
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#10 AmandaW

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:50

I was concerned that I've been on the slippery slope to insanity these past few months, I think my misreading of the title of this thread may have provided further evidence. I saw "Converting paper weight in pounds to gsm" and thought "oh my, that's a big paper weight".

 

To make it worse, in an earlier phase of my life, I worked in the print industry. :wacko: 


It's all about the greys...


#11 Anne-Sophie

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 05:47

What I really meant was trying to find the weight in ounce for each sheet.


Is it fair for an intelligent and family oriented mammal to be separated from his/her family and spend his/her life starved in a concrete jail?

#12 A Smug Dill

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 06:02

What I really meant was trying to find the weight in ounce for each sheet.

 
Which is why some of us asked for specifics as to which size and type of Rhodia paper you're using.
 
A sheet torn from a Rhodia Dotpad No.16, which is 80g/m² and A5 size (148 x 210mm) including the stub on the other side of the perforation, would have a surface area of 0.03108g/m² and so each sheet nominally weighs 2.5g (less the stub if you tear the main writing area away from it). You then just look up a grams-to-ounces conversion, if you need to find the weight in ounces.
 
A sheet from a Bloc Rhodia No.18 (A4 size) would be double that at roughly 5g.
 
Bloc-R by Rhodia pads, in which the paper is 90g/m², weigh 12.5% more per sheet for the same surface area.


Edit: struck out the stray "g/" from the unit of page surface area

Edited by A Smug Dill, 29 June 2020 - 21:23.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#13 Kenlowe

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 08:41

I am not sure that the above post is being either reasonable or kind in response to a genuine enquiry Anne-Sophie,

 

To convert the weight of paper in gsm divide the gsm by 33.906  to produce ounces per square yard.

 

Then you simply need to know how many sheets of your paper ina  square yard.



#14 A Smug Dill

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:53

I am not sure that the above post is being either reasonable or kind in response to a genuine enquiry Anne-Sophie,

 
I'm not sure what your problem with it is. Did you even read her query/thread? I've explained to her exactly what I would do if I was in the US and have to work with the local standard units of measurement.
 
The gram is an SI unit of measurement, which is an international standard.
The metre is an SI unit.
Grams per square metre (gsm, or  g/m²), is a derived SI unit.

Anne-Sophie was asking about Rhodia pads.

The paper weight is given for Rhodia products by its manufacturer in SI units (g/m²), usually on the product and/or packaging itself.

The dimensions of each sheet is also given in SI units (mm).

 

The logical approach would be to do form an understanding and do all the calculations in SI units, and at the last step, if the local post office will only deal in some non-SI unit, do the required conversion in order to communicate (and/or work) effectively with the staff or system there. It doesn't matter whether it's more prevalent locally to use pounds and ounces, or catties and taels, as the units of weight (or mass); that conversion is the final step. I was taught that decades ago, back in high school. Have things changed since?

 

So, please tell me how that isn't reasonable.


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#15 Kenlowe

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:31

 
I'm not sure what your problem with it is. Did you even read her query/thread? I've explained to her exactly what I would do if I was in the US and have to work with the local standard units of measurement.
 
The gram is an SI unit of measurement, which is an international standard.
The metre is an SI unit.
Grams per square metre (gsm, or  g/m²), is a derived SI unit.

Anne-Sophie was asking about Rhodia pads.

The paper weight is given for Rhodia products by its manufacturer in SI units (g/m²), usually on the product and/or packaging itself.

The dimensions of each sheet is also given in SI units (mm).

 

The logical approach would be to do form an understanding and do all the calculations in SI units, and at the last step, if the local post office will only deal in some non-SI unit, do the required conversion in order to communicate (and/or work) effectively with the staff or system there. It doesn't matter whether it's more prevalent locally to use pounds and ounces, or catties and taels, as the units of weight (or mass); that conversion is the final step. I was taught that decades ago, back in high school. Have things changed since?

 

So, please tell me how that isn't reasonable.

 

 

Sorry pal, I have a golden rule of never answering people who are difficult and confrontational, first directive in dealing with people who think they are so very important and you have been called out on this so many times I have lost count, I have even had PMs from people saying to just click the Ignore feature.

 

Its a simple division Anne-Sophie, I hope that the figure I have given allows you to work out the figure for ounces per square yard.

 

Anne


Edited by OilMugs, 29 June 2020 - 12:34.


#16 N1003U

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 13:47

What I really meant was trying to find the weight in ounce for each sheet.

 

Below is one of the best references I have found, from a US paper manufacturer in Wisconsin. Yea, you have to do a little math to get to the weight of an individual sheet, but it isn't THAT difficult.

 

https://www.neenahpa...1/basis-weights

 

You may or may not be interested in some of the nearby paper size/weight data nearby on the same site, which includes A-series ISO sizes and weights, and a bit about C-series envelopes, which are generally handy for mailing A-series sheets, but there is a decent amount of useful information there for those who are interested in manufacture and specification of paper.

 

I personally blame the Dutch for the confusion.

 

They came over to the US in the late 18th Century (mostly to the Hudson River valley) with their fancy-pants processes and screens that established a lot of the standard sizes that are still used in the US today, including what is today a 34" roll, from which the 17" x 22" basis for "bond" paper weight is fairly directly derived.



#17 XYZZY

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 17:07

I am not sure that the above post is being either reasonable or kind in response to a genuine enquiry Anne-Sophie,

 

 

I think this was uncalled for.  I thought Dill's response was an honest attempt at being helpful, and I cannot see what was negative about it.



#18 Kenlowe

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 17:18

 

I think this was uncalled for.  I thought Dill's response was an honest attempt at being helpful, and I cannot see what was negative about it.

 

 

Deleted


Edited by OilMugs, 29 June 2020 - 17:25.


#19 Anne-Sophie

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 11:10

I want to thank everyone for being so understanding and helpful!

 

I thought that I composed this thread, because I had the exact same question, but I responded to the wrong thread, so my first post sounded like a second post related to my inquiries on this thread http://www.fountainp...-of-each-sheet/

 

 

I did some calculations using the charts provided and ended up, most probably, paying too much for the letter's postage.

 

I am extremely math challenged, I apologize for my cluelessness in this matter, as well as, causing confusion by responding to the wrong thread.

  

 

I use the Bloc Rhodia number 18 which is A4. Not punched.

 

80 sheets 80g/meter square  21.3lb

 

 

Smug Dill said "A sheet from a Bloc Rhodia No.18 (A4 size) would be double that at roughly 5g."

 

 

So maybe, all I have to do is convert grams into ounces.


Edited by Anne-Sophie, 04 July 2020 - 11:12.

Is it fair for an intelligent and family oriented mammal to be separated from his/her family and spend his/her life starved in a concrete jail?

#20 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 17:52

Probably easier to just obtain something like

https://www.amazon.c...3884918&sr=8-47

 

At least, if part of the worry is in regards to over/under-paying postage...

 

Somewhere I own one that is even simpler -- brass, a simple arc with gradations, a dangling wire pointer, finger ring, and alligator clip.


Edited by BaronWulfraed, 04 July 2020 - 17:53.







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