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Pilot Stub Nibs

pilot stub 912 743

17 replies to this topic

#1 cullercoats

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 20:03

Hello everyone. Can you help me? I have a Pilot 912 with a music nib. I am tempted to buy another with a stub nib. What is the difference between the Pilot #10 stub nib on the 912 and 742 and the #15 stub on the 743? Has anybody compared the two? I should be only too pleased to benefit from your experience.

Thank you

Adrian



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#2 A Smug Dill

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 00:59

The best I could do is point you to Goulet's Nib Nook, on which you can get a like-for-like comparison between Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Music and Stub nibs, if you're looking for what has already been done.


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#3 cullercoats

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 21:45

That's really interesting. Thank you. However what I am really after is a comparison of the Pilot size 10 stub nib (on the 742 and the 912) and the Pilot size 15 stub nib on the 743. I think the size 15 nib should be softer and possible offer a bit more line variation - but someone out there might just know the answer....



#4 Karmachanic

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Posted 06 June 2020 - 06:47

That's really interesting. Thank you. However what I am really after is a comparison of the Pilot size 10 stub nib (on the 742 and the 912) and the Pilot size 15 stub nib on the 743. I think the size 15 nib should be softer and possible offer a bit more line variation - but someone out there might just know the answer....

 

From various discussions here on FNP I understand that  the #10 FA nib is softer than the #15. Doesn't necessarily mean that this holds true for the stub, but I would be surprised if it didn't. Always up for a pleasant surprise :)


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#5 gerigo

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 02:19

While I personally don’t own the stubs, I have tried them quite a bit at different stationery stores in Japan. No flex at all.



#6 cullercoats

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 20:17

Thank you for that reply. I have a music nib on a Pilot 912 and it is very firm. I think your response might have answered the query. Expect little or no softness in either the larger or the smaller sized nib.

Thank you.



#7 cgreenberg19

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 00:36

The #15 stub is larger in size.



#8 A Smug Dill

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 01:05

I think the size 15 nib should be softer and possible offer a bit more line variation - but someone out there might just know the answer....


I'm not sure I understand. For the calligraphic hands that require, or benefit from, the use of a broad-edged nib, line variation in a controlled manner come from the orientation of the nib in relation to the direction or trajectory of the stroke. To get a wider range of line variation, you simply use a nib in that style with a physically wider edge, cf. 1.9mm Stub versus 1.1mm Stub in JoWo nibs, or 2.4mm versus 1.5mm in Pilot Parallel pens.

I have a music nib on a Pilot 912 and it is very firm. I think your response might have answered the query. Expect little or no softness in either the larger or the smaller sized nib.


I'm pretty sure @Honeybadgers has mentioned more than once on FPN that the 14K gold Music nib on the Pilot Custom 74 is softer than the larger Music nibs in the Custom product line. I cannot corroborate on that, given I hated (both the pen body and the nib on) the Pilot Custom 74 with a Music nib, used it three or four times to produce some writing samples, and promptly sold it the first chance I got; and I didn't have (and never want to use) a larger Music nib from Pilot, so I can't make any comparison.
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#9 cullercoats

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 18:37

I take your point entirely, but a softer nib can also affect the line width and the feel of the pen on the paper. Have a look at the YouTube video comparing the two Sailor Music nibs by WriteHereShrewsbury who looks at these Sailor Pens Music nibs, both 14 ct and 21ct, and compares how they write. I wondered whether there was a similar difference between the two Pilot stub nibs.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the Pilot 74. I have never tried one, but I find both the 912 and the 743 to be very comfortable and perform very well.



#10 rdh

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 21:16

I like the larger Pilot nibs (#15) although I have never used one of their stubs.  They are "springy" and provide a very enjoyable bouncy experience that is quite noticeable when compared with, say, the #5 nib on the Custom 74.  There really isn't any flex, though, nor much line variation.  So, if you are looking for line variation, go with an italic or stub nib, but they will give you less of the springy haptic response you get with the large Pilot nibs.

 

Dave



#11 Violet-Ink

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 00:41

I have a Custom 74 Music and a 912 Stub. My 912 Stub is thiner, less crisp, less wet, less soft, and shows less line variation than my 74 Music. My 912 Stub only works on coarse paper; otherwise it just glides without writing at all (it probably has a problem but I can not notice anything particularly off with my loupe). My 74 Music is a fire hose; only works on quality paper; otherwise, my writing looks like ink puddles.

#12 A Smug Dill

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 00:53

Have a look at the YouTube video comparing the two Sailor Music nibs by WriteHereShrewsbury who looks at these Sailor Pens Music nibs, both 14 ct and 21ct, and compares how they write.

 

Thanks for the link. However, I won't waste/spend time watching video reviews unless I have no other choice in doing my due diligence.

 

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide to get or forgo.


Edited by A Smug Dill, 10 June 2020 - 00:51.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#13 Honeybadgers

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 19:36

 

 

Thanks for the link. However, I won't waste/spend time watching video reviews unless I have no other choice is doing my due diligence.

 

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide to get or forgo.

 

You don't find video reviews of writing samples useful? I sure do. A lot of people fail to mention hard starts in their written reviews but they become achingly obvious when there's a video of someone writing. David (figboot) tends to not really notice extremely minor hard start problems, but those problems are the bane of my damned existence with this hobby. So I often skip around in review videos to writing samples.

 

Matt armstrong did a good job in pointing out any and all flaws he could find with a pen's nib.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 09 June 2020 - 19:36.

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#14 gyasko

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 20:59

I also hate videos and wont watch them. Id much prefer something written, especially since were talking about writing instruments

#15 MuddyWaters

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 23:56

 
You don't find video reviews of writing samples useful? I sure do. A lot of people fail to mention hard starts in their written reviews but they become achingly obvious when there's a video of someone writing. David (figboot) tends to not really notice extremely minor hard start problems, but those problems are the bane of my damned existence with this hobby. So I often skip around in review videos to writing samples.
 
Matt armstrong did a good job in pointing out any and all flaws he could find with a pen's nib.


To be honest I bet most people watch pen reviews for a dopamine pen porn rush, to either admire pens or confirm something they already want. There aren't very many truly critical reviewers, to the point that you could watch 4-5 reviews and not find a single fault with a pen, until you receive it.

Link to a post about ergonomics I made: http://www.fountainp...with/?p=4179072


#16 Honeybadgers

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 18:44

To be honest I bet most people watch pen reviews for a dopamine pen porn rush, to either admire pens or confirm something they already want. There aren't very many truly critical reviewers, to the point that you could watch 4-5 reviews and not find a single fault with a pen, until you receive it.

 

I think a lot of FP reviewers actually do really try to do a good job. But being human, they all have their own biases and preferences. So It's on us to find the things we like and compare it to what reviewers tend to like. I generally really liked Matt Armstrong's reviews, but I also tended to know that things he didn't like about nibs were things I did, so I just looked for nibs that he complained as scratchy and bought those. 

 

I also think that reviews aren't often given enough time. I think 2-5 days isn't enough time to really find the faults with a pen, it needs to be used in rotation for a couple weeks or more.


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#17 MuddyWaters

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 23:48

 
I think a lot of FP reviewers actually do really try to do a good job. But being human, they all have their own biases and preferences. So It's on us to find the things we like and compare it to what reviewers tend to like. I generally really liked Matt Armstrong's reviews, but I also tended to know that things he didn't like about nibs were things I did, so I just looked for nibs that he complained as scratchy and bought those. 
 
I also think that reviews aren't often given enough time. I think 2-5 days isn't enough time to really find the faults with a pen, it needs to be used in rotation for a couple weeks or more.


Tbf if I was receiving 100 pens per year to review i'd probably grow tired of saying something sucked or was boring. That is my attitude after I receive a pen I bought with my own money and don't like, but I cant say I would do the same for the nth pen that is reviewed for the general public.

I wished they talked more about price and value and comparables. Others just gush at everything and that annoys me. I get what you mean about Matt Armstrong's taste in nibs.. polishing feedback nibs :P

Link to a post about ergonomics I made: http://www.fountainp...with/?p=4179072


#18 A Smug Dill

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 05:06

You don't find video reviews of writing samples useful?

 

That's not the point, from my perspective. The signal-to-noise ratio (or ratio of useful, meaningful, enlightening content versus puff and padding material measured in minutes and seconds) in video reviews put me off. It may contain the one gem of useful information that cannot be had any other way, but I'm not going to sit through ten or fifty minutes of a video review to come across it three-quarters of the way in, then sit through the rest not knowing whether more useful information awaits. If that single morsel of "useful" information in a video is going to make the win-or-lose difference in a million-dollar investment; I'd sit through it. Hell, if I'm getting paid my professional rates to sit through an hour-long meeting that is boring, I'd sit through it sufficiently attentively. But the average video review of pen, ink or paper online delivers/offers much less at stake.

 

There are those who enjoy video reviews as "pen porn" and/or entertainment with which to while away the time. I don't; I'd rather be napping, shopping, out running around the Sydney Opera House for physical exercise, or even watching actual pr0n. However, I don't question any of my fellows' prerogative to prefer otherwise. It's just not my style to be spoon-fed information and "entertained" along the way; I prefer something that either tests the viewer's or learner's endurance to mindfully extract useful information akin to finding needles in a haystack, so that the more attentive and astute wins (materially), or a Q&A format where a questor spends hours formulating, distilling and wording a 500-word query, and get a 30-word expert response that cuts through all the noise and distractions to shine a light on the nub of the matter, so that the questor can then send a few more hours understanding the advice and focusing his/her attention on further (or revisited) research.

 

I can't recall too many occasions where hours (or minutes) of research and formulating a query warrants the equivalent in response of time spent or words published. Video reviews seem to demand far more from viewers than the bits of information that is actually useful to the individual.

 

However, this is going all very off-topic.

 

I wished they talked more about price and value and comparables.

 

Personally, that's something I'd just above never do, because I think it alludes to "worth" and/or business analysis. (Just to be clear, I was a business analyst in most of my professional career, by whatever position title that was accorded or trendy at the time.) I want people to get what they want, even though they may have to pay a price they don't want to pay; or alternatively accept they're choosing to forgo what they want eyes wide open for economical reasons. Optimising for what the individual could get for what they're prepared (or find "affordable") to spend is one of the last things I would ever want to be concerned about or address.


Edited by A Smug Dill, 07 July 2020 - 11:24.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.



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