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Fountain Pen Friendly Iron Gall

iron gall ink ink recipe

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53 replies to this topic

#41 silverlifter

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 19:03

I assume from your lack of answer to my question, is that you never used Pharmacists ink, and so you really can't say that one person's ink is out of the league of the other. In fact, if you are talking about the quality of the iron gall ink, I've used both and think that both are/were excellent.

 

If you are not talking about the ink, then you must be talking about the person. People pursue one career path or the other for their own personal choices and pursuit of money is not always the sole driving factor. Because one pursued this financially it does not elevate this person to another league above the other.

 

I didn't answer about using the ink (I haven't) because it is not relevant. Nor is it relevant to suggest that this has anything to do with (either) person - and it is insulting to suggest so.

 

Go back and actually read my initial comment: tinta set up a dichotomy between KWZ/Pharmacist and "large manufacturers". My point is, and remains, that KWZ is more in line with the latter than the former. One sold a few bottle of home made ink here, the other sells thousands of litres all around the world. Not the same league by any definition of that term.

 

But thanks for the baseless attribution of a bad faith argument to me. 


Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.


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#42 cellmatrix

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 19:39

 

I didn't answer about using the ink (I haven't) because it is not relevant. Nor is it relevant to suggest that this has anything to do with (either) person - and it is insulting to suggest so.

 

Go back and actually read my initial comment: tinta set up a dichotomy between KWZ/Pharmacist and "large manufacturers". My point is, and remains, that KWZ is more in line with the latter than the former. One sold a few bottle of home made ink here, the other sells thousands of litres all around the world. Not the same league by any definition of that term.

 

But thanks for the baseless attribution of a bad faith argument to me. 

Your saying Pharmacist is not in the same league as Konrad, really sounded like an insult to me. But thank you for clarifying because I see no need to elevate one over the other, both Pharmacist and KWZ inks are/were great and I am glad at least one of them is still in business.

 

On the other hand, its too bad you never used Pharmacists inks, because you would have liked them. In fact I think its likely that Pharmacists work was the inspiration for Konrad to form KWZ, as KWZ started in 2012 right at the time Pharmacist was at his most active in selling inks. But this was before your time here on FPN, and only Konrad would know the answer to this question.

 

Also I just want to set the record straight: Pharmacist did not sell 'just a few' bottles, he sold hundreds of bottles here, and they were just of the same good quality and just as good as KWZ in every way, although some of Pharmacists ability to use colors was particularly striking. He had a way to dial up or dial down the amount of iron gall in his inks. Higher for his blue black, and lower for his colored inks, allowing the colors to come thru more.



#43 tinta

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 20:09

Your saying Pharmacist is not in the same league as Konrad, really sounded like an insult to me. But thank you for clarifying because I see no need to elevate one over the other, both Pharmacist and KWZ inks are/were great and I am glad at least one of them is still in business.

 

On the other hand, its too bad you never used Pharmacists inks, because you would have liked them. In fact I think its likely that Pharmacists work was the inspiration for Konrad to form KWZ, as KWZ started in 2012 right at the time Pharmacist was at his most active in selling inks. But this was before your time here on FPN, and only Konrad would know the answer to this question.

 

Also I just want to set the record straight: Pharmacists did not sell 'just a few' bottles, he sold hundreds of bottles here, and they were just of the same good quality and just as good as KWZ in every way, although some of Pharmacists ability to use colors was particularly striking. He had a way to dial up or dial down the amount of iron gall in his inks. Higher for his blue black, and lower for his colored inks, allowing the colors to come thru more.

Ouch!

I hope I didn't cause this.


Edited by tinta, 26 June 2020 - 20:11.

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#44 cellmatrix

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 20:18

Looking back I guess I overreacted. Anyway, sincere apology to Silverlifter for being such a pain in the arse!



#45 silverlifter

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 22:02

Looking back I guess I overreacted. Anyway, sincere apology to Silverlifter for being such a pain in the arse!

 

It was a misunderstanding. Your apology is gratefully accepted and much appreciated. :)


Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.


#46 inkstainedruth

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 23:11

Before making further judgements, can you tell us have you even used any of Pharmacist's inks? I only ask because to my knowledge Pharmacist only sold to FPN members and he stopped making them long before you joined. Also, the fact that Konrad went on to became a manufacturer and Pharmacist (who also had an advanced degree, obviously) decided to keep his day job, (despite so many here begging Pharmacist to continue making ink), reflects Konrads and Pharmacists own personal decisions rather than the quality of their inks.

 

Sad to hear that about Pharmacist.  I had a few of his IG inks (and had hoped to try some others, plus get a backup bottle (or three  :rolleyes:) of Turkish Night, the cyan-black he made when he first started playing around with other colors besides blue-black.

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#47 cellmatrix

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 20:09

 

Sad to hear that about Pharmacist.  I had a few of his IG inks (and had hoped to try some others, plus get a backup bottle (or three  :rolleyes:) of Turkish Night, the cyan-black he made when he first started playing around with other colors besides blue-black.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

yes that turkish night ink was amazing wasn't it???



#48 inkstainedruth

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 02:37

Yeah....  :wub: 

Much as I love a lot of the KWZI inks I've tried, their IG Turquoise, while having amazing shading, is just no match for Turkish Night.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#49 fiberdrunk

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 20:03

Is there such a thing as a fountain pen friendly iron gall *recipe*? Not a mass marketed commercial ink. I assume it would have to be without gum arabic at least.

 

I posted quite a few of my homemade iron gall ink recipes several years ago and the fountain pens that they work well with.

I would have to add the Noodler's Boston Safety Pen to the list of pens that work fantastic with homemade traditional iron gall ink.  I'm also currently testing the TWSBI Diamond Mini... it's been working great for a couple of months, with zero start-up hassles.  A couple of the above recipes do have gum arabic in them, yet they don't seem to present a problem for me, at least not for the list of fountain pens I mentioned.

 

Just note that not all fountain pens are suitable for traditional gallo-tannic iron gall inks.  The best candidates are those with ink feeds that can be taken apart for cleaning, and preferably with a gold-plated nib to prevent tarnishing (though not all of the fountain pens I've tested over the years have gold-plated nibs).  I haven't noticed any damage to the pens I listed.


Edited by fiberdrunk, 11 July 2020 - 05:49.

Find my homemade ink recipes on my Flickr page here.

"I don't wait for inspiration; inspiration waits for me." --Akiane Kramarik

#50 cellmatrix

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 20:32

 

I posted quite a few of my homemade iron gall ink recipes several years ago and the fountain pens that they work well with.

I would have to add the Noodler's Boston Safety Pen to the list of pens that work fantastic with homemade traditional iron gall ink.  I'm also currently testing the TWSBI Diamond Mini... it's been working great for a couple of months, with zero start-up hassles.  A couple of the above recipes do have gum arabic in them, yet they don't seem to present a problem for me, at least not for the list of fountain pens I mentioned.

 

Just note that not all fountain pens are suitable for traditional gallo-tannic iron gall inks.  The best candidates are those with ink feeds that can be taken apart for cleaning, and preferably with a gold-plated nib to prevent tarnishing (though not all of the fountain pens I've tested over the years have gold-plated nibs).  I haven't noticed any damage to the pens I listed.

It is really cool that you were able to make all of these inks. I remember reading your posts a few years earlier and I never mentioned it at the time but I was and remain super impressed. Of the different inks you've made, what is your favorite of the bunch? Is there some way you can adjust the recipes such that the ink remains a bit more colored after the oxidation process on the paper? Thanks very much for your advice and expertise!



#51 fiberdrunk

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 21:51

It is really cool that you were able to make all of these inks. I remember reading your posts a few years earlier and I never mentioned it at the time but I was and remain super impressed. Of the different inks you've made, what is your favorite of the bunch? Is there some way you can adjust the recipes such that the ink remains a bit more colored after the oxidation process on the paper? Thanks very much for your advice and expertise!

 

Thanks!  I tend to favor archival permanence over color when it comes to ink.  Dr. Stark mentioned the adding of any kind of dye, including indigotin, shortens the life of the ink (i.e. premature browning on the page and most likely loss of permanence/stability as well). though he liked to use indigotin in his own ink (acts as a preservative somewhat, and heck, who doesn't like a nice blue-black ink!)  My favorite recipes are the Dr. Stark one (uses aleppo galls), and also the U.S. Government Standard ink (uses chemicals).  I'm amazed that the aleppo gall one outperforms the chemical one in retaining the black color, though this may be due to the adding of the blue color to the Standard ink, just like Dr. Stark warned.  Both have aged well so far.  I used indigotin in the U.S. Gov't Standard ink and those older batches are black now... the blue color is now lost in the bottle.  Still makes a nice black ink, though. 

 

I've been meaning to make a new batch of the Standard sometime, but omitting the blue dye next time... it'll most likely go down as nearly transparent on the page, but should still oxidize to black.


Find my homemade ink recipes on my Flickr page here.

"I don't wait for inspiration; inspiration waits for me." --Akiane Kramarik

#52 cellmatrix

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 22:56

When I have the time, I'd love to try to make some ink following your recipes, Dr.Stark as well as Standard. It looks like John Neal books sells the aleppo galls, but where do you recommend to get the chemicals?



#53 fiberdrunk

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 15:42

When I have the time, I'd love to try to make some ink following your recipes, Dr.Stark as well as Standard. It looks like John Neal books sells the aleppo galls, but where do you recommend to get the chemicals?

 

Elemental Scientific has everything except the blue dye and aleppo galls (they have the chemicals, though). 

 

I used indigotin from Kremer Pigmente (very expensive, and it didn't end up retaining the blue even in the jar after awhile).  They have aleppo  galls as well, though I've only bought the galls from JNB and an eBay seller before (sakargravity in India used to have the lowest prices for galls on eBay, but shipping has become crazy expensive recently).  You might try other eBay sellers to see if there's anyone with more reasonable shipping... just make sure you're getting whole galls and not powder.  


Edited by fiberdrunk, 14 July 2020 - 15:43.

Find my homemade ink recipes on my Flickr page here.

"I don't wait for inspiration; inspiration waits for me." --Akiane Kramarik

#54 cellmatrix

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 17:38

 

Elemental Scientific has everything except the blue dye and aleppo galls (they have the chemicals, though). 

 

I used indigotin from Kremer Pigmente (very expensive, and it didn't end up retaining the blue even in the jar after awhile).  They have aleppo  galls as well, though I've only bought the galls from JNB and an eBay seller before (sakargravity in India used to have the lowest prices for galls on eBay, but shipping has become crazy expensive recently).  You might try other eBay sellers to see if there's anyone with more reasonable shipping... just make sure you're getting whole galls and not powder.  

Thanks very much!!







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