What Everyday Ink Would You Use For Permanent Reasons?

[khalameet]

Hey,

 

I am considering to use only one ink anymore. I want to rely on it's permanent qualities and was thinking about the following inks:

 

Pilot Blue Black

Pilot Iro Shin-Kai

Pilot Iro Asa-Gao

KWZ Iron Gall Blue Black

 

I wanted to use Platinum Blue Black in a Platinum 3776, but the ink is not wet enough in my particular 3776 and the converter size is not that big. I really like the KWZ ink, but I am hesitating to fill it in my planned main pens (Custom 823 and 845). I don't want to put an acidic ink in these pens, so the Platinum Blue Black is not the best choice either (besides it seems to fade more than Pilot Blue Black in UV-light).

 

So the other choices would be between Asa-Gao, Shin-Kai and the standard blue black. The standard ink would win in every aspect, including water resistance and reliability. But Shin-Kai or Asa-Gao would win in terms of color, but they are not as permanent.

 

Would you think these inks are permanent enough to be read by my grandchildren? I want to only write things anymore with an ink I can be sure that it will endure my life.

 

Thank you so much and stay safe.

Edited May 20, 2020 by khalameet

[silverlifter]

KWZ IG BB hands down. Great performing ink and guaranteed longevity.

 

Having said that, I dug out some notes written in 1989 in Parker Quink Turquoise, which is far from permanent, and they were legible, despite being written on crappy reycled paper. Not archival quality, but the moral of the story is that most inks will survive a long time, unless water is a factor...

[Mercian]

If you want permanence and reasonable behaviour, I recommend Noodler’s Black.
It isn’t an interesting colour, but it is waterproof, it is lightfast, and it does not spread or feather very much (if at all). I don’t know if it is available in Germany, but it is available here in the UK.

 

Traditional iron-gall blue-black inks are made by quite a few companies now, including by

KWZI, Diamine (Registrar’s Ink), and ESS (their Registrars’ Ink is the one recommended by the UK government), and I believe that Hero also now make a version of it too.

Be warned though - most iron-gall blue-blacks feel very dry!

 

If you would like some more-interesting colours, you could also look at:

the Dokumentus range of inks made by Rohrer & Klingner;

the De Atramentis Document inks;

the Permanent Blue and Permanent Black made by Montblanc;

the pigment inks made by Sailor (Sou Boku blue-black, Sei Boku blue-green-black, and Kiwa Guro black).

 

[Edit to add: pigmented inks require you to exercise great care to NOT let the ink dry out in your pen, ever. They also require you to give the pen a really good cleaning fairly often. Iron-gall inks require similar vigilance.
I once let some R&K Salix dry-out in a Parker “51”. It’s another iron-gall blue-black, but I didn’t recommend it to you because it fades when exposed to daylight.
It took me several weeks of soaking and flushing the pen in vinegar solution, and then allowing water to ‘wick’ through its nib, in order to get all the old i-g ink out of it. DON’T make the same mistake that I did!

Noodler’s Black is easy to clean out of a pen, and pH neutral.

But, as it is cellulose-reactive, if you spill it on a cotton garment, or table-cloth, or un-varnished wood, it will cause permanent staining.]

[Another edit: I forgot to mention Pelikan Fount India, and Platinum also make a ‘carbon black’ ink.
Pelikan 4001 blau schwarz should be available everywhere - and cheap - in Germany, but lots of people think that it feels ‘dry’.]

 

For all-round ease of use, coupled with a less-boring-than-plain-black colour, you may not be able to do any better than Pilot Blue Black.
Pilot refuse to sell it in bottles here in the UK (which makes me want to murder them ), so I would be interested to learn where you managed to buy it from.

Cheers,

M.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Mercian

[fc2462]

My favorite every day ink that is permanent is Diamine Registrar's. It works great on cheap paper and is very permanent due to iron gall formula.

[SchaumburgSwan]

Hi,

 

I use ESSRI most of the time... sometimes DRI if a very dry ink fits the pen better.

 

Like Silverlifter I still can read my writing made in the 1980s in school blue.

It was Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue, one of the least permanent and washable inks.

 

Best

Jens

[The Good Captain]

I still love Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black but really must try the KWZ one day and also the Akkerman IG B-B - can't remember its name & number at the moment.

[Carrau]

Pilot Blue-Black, R&K Salix, and Noodler’s Black or Blue Black are all good candidates, with water resistance, and you can’t beat the price for any of them.

[Eclipse157]

If you plan to write a diary or anything that's not exposed to light, water or humidity, anything will last a lifetime. I have high school (20+ years ago) notes popping up from forgotten drawers written in Pelikan 4001 royal blue that look perfect.

[Olya]

I'd use Pilot Blue Black. It's the cheapest, it should be more fade resistant than blues like Asa Gao, it's so water resistant I'd call it waterproof, if it dries in your pen it's no big deal as opposed to IG or pigment ink, it won't eat through paper over time like IG ink, it won't corrode a steel nib or decorative metal rings like IG might.

 

However, I'd say you're safe with most inks, very few are so flighty to fade terribly (some washable blues (Königsblau), some turquoise inks (Kaweco Paradise Blue), and Bay State Blue is a terrible fader, but I suppose that's not in the running anyway, some people have had a bit of fading issues with some R&K IG inks as well).

 

Pilot Blue Black is easily obtained in Europe, either directly from Japan or via European shops like stilo e stile.

https://www.stiloestile.it/en/inks/bottled-inks/inchiostro-pilot-black

 

I think other European shops also sell it.

[XYZZY]

Sailor Souboku. Blue black, permanent, good flow & lubrication, comes in a nice bottle. It's a pigmented ink, which gives some people pause, but I haven't had problems with it. I've also never let a pen dry out, though. But this will work better in more pens than an IG ink.

 

I wouldn't use the DeAtramentis document inks if you're trying to find one ink that works with a lot of pens: that ink spreads a lot. Not feathering, mind you, but the ink just spreads a bit when it hits paper and produces a wider line than you'd expect. Its not a big deal when using an EF nib, but you start to notice it with wider/wetter nibs. But in the right pen they are nice inks.

[khalameet]

Thank you all for your answers.

 

My obvious choice would indeed be the KWZ IG BB. I like everything about this ink. But it is not going into a Custom 823 or 845. I don't feel well thinking of putting this ink in these pens.

 

I would rather use a Platinum 3776, but the tiny converter is not big enough and I would have to carry a backup pen. And I don't like refilling cartridges. This is a real first world problem here, I know

 

I think about just using Pilot Blue Black in the 823 or Shin Kai in the 845. I never had an accident with water and documents in like 22 years. But somehow I like the thought that everything that I will write will potentially get really old, so I was considering of using a single ink in a single pen for the next few months (or forever, if the "itch" does not come).

I like the idea of having only one pen and ink. But the two mentioned Pilots are just more enjoyable, but not really "compatible" with my favorite ink.

 

And I already thought about Sou-Boku and even Platinum carbon black. But somehow these inks just do not appeal to me. The KWZ though...personally, the most interesting ink I have ever seen and used. And I like the smell and the price in Germany, too.

[Eclipse157]

KWZ IG Blue-Black has the heaviest IG component of the whole lineup, maybe you'd feel safer with IG Blue#1 which is medium IG? Or maybe one of Platinum Classic?

[khalameet]

I also have the #1. I tried many other IG inks, including Platinum blue black, ESSRI, Diamine Registrar's and Akkerman #10. But unfortunately, I found nothing that compares to the smooth feel that the BB by KWZ has, and the color of #1 is not as nice to my eyes. The blue black has a really nice tone and a slightly shiny quality.

 

Although it has only a pH of around 3 and should be really safe...but then I will constantly end up wondering of something is going to happen eventually.

[silverlifter]

FWIW, I would happily load it into an 823. Konrad knows what he is doing, and pens are meant to be inked.

 

But, your pen, your call

[Eclipse157]

I found nothing that compares to the smooth feel that the BB by KWZ has. The blue black has a really nice tone and a slightly shiny quality.

Well considered that I have a bottle of BB on its way right now consider me happier and hyped-er

[khalameet]

You wont regret it, this is fantastic high quality stuff!

 

@silverlifter: Yes, maybe you are right. Konrad sure knows what he is doing and all of his ink really feel fantastic. With every other pen I don't have any problem. This ink was in a Custom 74, Custom Heritage 91 and 912, several Platinum 3776. I know that there will be no damage, although the extra effort to clean the pens was definitely there. The nib and feed collect rather fast a lot of residue from the iron gall content (I assume that this happens so fast due to the high pH of around 3). Although this is very easy to clean with some ascorbic acid, I somehow feel reluctant putting this in more expensive pens. And the big stainless steel rod in the 823 makes my head ache, too.

 

Konrad told me that he uses corrosion inhibitors in his inks, which can help protect even bad quality stainless steel, and I am pretty sure that Pilot uses high quality stainless steel for the rod. So, logically speaking, nothing SHOULD happen. But keeping the price tag of the 823 in mind (or even the 845, which does not have stainless steel in it, besides the CON-70) I am still reluctant.

[A Smug Dill]

For permanence, Sailor souboku and seiboku pigments inks are always my first choices. They're almost perfectly waterproof, even down to the their sheening component, and they aren't ordinary. While I have some "expensive" pens of which I'm mindful of the acquisition (or replacement costs), I personally always think that (successful accomplishment of the) purpose — including what is requiring that permanence for the content laid down on the page — trumps the tools in value; and if it's a choice between writing intended to last >50 years and using "expensive" ink, versus using some cheaper ink (and/or media) that wouldn't last as long, I'd choose to put priority on permanence. As for the pen itself, I may buy a pen in the spirit of "punting" or experimentation, but keeping it and using it is a matter of it giving me more pleasure than when using other pens. So if I find more pleasure in using an "expensive" pen or "rare" pen for writing with "permanent" ink, knowing there's a risk of it lowering the value of the pen or even damaging it if I'm not careful, I'd still gladly go with that, if the pen means nothing after I'm dead but I want the content of what I wrote to persist — especially if/when those "expensive" pens are still in production and readily replaceable.

[khalameet]

That is actually a rather interesting point of view.

 

It is interesting that writing with this pen and ink combination would give me joy and I hesitate because of 200€ I paid for the Custom 823. But there are probably many, many hours I would write without damaging anything inside the pen (if there ever will be any damage, which I really doubt).

I consider the process of writing and the writing itself far more valuable than the pen.

 

Maybe I should just put the ink in there and see how it works...thank you for these philosophical thoughts.

[Flaxmoore]

To be very honest, I wouldn't use any of the ones you mention, khalameet.

 

When I think "permanent", I think incredibly permanent. I'm a doctor, so permanent to me means that a patient can't tamper with the prescription written in the ink, medical records written in the ink will outlive me, that the only way to make it budge off the paper is to destroy the paper itself.

 

I love Pilot BB. Nearly done with a 350ml bottle of the stuff. However, it isn't that insanely permanent.

 

I have a few requirements.

1. Can't be removed with commonly available solvents
2. Can't gunk up the pen unless left for a very long time
3. Can't damage the paper it's on
4. Has a track record- if you have an ink that's proof against everything, but it'll fade to death in a year or two, it's worthless to me
5. Fade resistant if not fade proof

For me, that leaves two. Platinum Carbon and Diamine/ESS Registrar's.

 

Platinum Carbon is next to impossible to remove, and carbon inks have centuries of experience backing them. Registrar's has literal centuries backing it, and I trust the UK government to pick right. The census records I read for ancestry research may be 200+ years old, but they were written in iron gall and still hold up 200 years later.

[khalameet]

Platinum Carbon Black is another ink that I never actually tried, but I ordered a sample of it along with samples of all the Classic inks made by Platinum.

 

I am trying to heavily reduce my collection. Although I am storing the other pens I have in a drawer and see how it goes with only two pens. But I think I will try it with the Platinum 3776 and try to figure out if the size of the converter is actually a problem.

 

Since I have two 3776, one with a broad and one with a music nib, I think I will ink one with the Platinum Blue Black or KWZ IG Blue Black, and the other one with Carbon black. Those two colours are more than sufficient for my note taking habits. I really like Platinum blue black, though it is not as permanent as the KWZ. It seems to fade a bit with UV light.

Edited May 22, 2020 by khalameet