Sheaffer Lifetime 2000 - Cartridge Only, Or Also Converter?

[Paul-in-SF]

Based on what I can see on the Penhero site, this pen (photos below) is a Sheaffer Lifetime 2000. It is the right size, it has gold plated hardware and a 14K nib, there is Lifetime on both the nib and clip. The site says this is strictly cartridge, but I just want to make sure whether there is a converter that will fit and work in this pen.

[I-am-not-really-here]

Try the Sheaffer Button Converter.

 

Look here for others http://www.penhero.com/PenInHand/2005/PenInHandMay2005.htm

 

Old Sheaffer cartridges back-filled via syringe, nothing wrong with that.

[Paul-in-SF]

I finally got some new cartridges in the mail, modern Sheaffer cartridges, and I find that, while they do (barely) fit into the barrel, they don't come out again, I have to wheedle them out again with a wire, like a paper clip. The pen writes ok, it gets ink ok, so I guess I'll only have to do it when I'm changing cartridges.

 

Was it always thus, or once upon a time was there a slightly narrower cartridge sold?

 

(Still not having any luck finding a converter that even remotely fits.)

[I-am-not-really-here]

If modern cartridges are too thick then in that case you probably need the Slimline ones or a Slimline converter.

[Paul-in-SF]

If modern cartridges are too thick then in that case you probably need the Slimline ones or a Slimline converter.

I think that in addition to the external size, the size of the pin may be important. The sites that have any of these out-of-production items (Andersen, Peyton) say they only fit certain pens like the Slim Targa and Fashion pens. So I suspect that they are either too long for other pens, or the pin is the wrong size. I have contacted Peyton asking for advice but I suspect I may be stuck with using the cartridges and just fishing them out when they are empty.

[BaronWulfraed]

The Slim Targa and Fashion wouldn't even permit a regular cartridge to fit the section -- they have "Slim" in the name for a reason. A slim cartridge/converter would likely wobble in the section of normal Sheaffer, and likely wouldn't even puncture as it falls too far into the barrel.

 

If we are talking about modern Sheaffer cartridges -- with the ball-seal on one end, and a pit on the other end, have you tried seating the cartridge fully on the nipple by hand, rather than relying on the barrel to push it into the nipple as you attach the section?

[I-am-not-really-here]

I think that in addition to the external size, the size of the pin may be important. The sites that have any of these out-of-production items (Andersen, Peyton) say they only fit certain pens like the Slim Targa and Fashion pens. So I suspect that they are either too long for other pens, or the pin is the wrong size. I have contacted Peyton asking for advice but I suspect I may be stuck with using the cartridges and just fishing them out when they are empty.

 

Yes, if the pin is too wide for the nipple then there is no puncture. Forcing it will lead to a broken pin. The old Skrip cartridges do not have a nipple and can be punctured from either end. But as I recall they are a wee bit wider than a modern standard cartridge.

[pgomme]

You could try a Kaweco squeeze converter. It works well in a slim Targa. It's pretty much just a sac attached to the hardware to mate with the pen. Does not take on a lot of ink.

[Ron Z]

The piercing tube is standard and therefore the same on all Sheaffer pens, and has never changed. Vintage cartridges had one end that was pierced more easily than the other - there are stampings on the end that allow the piercing to to cut through with less effort. Later production cartridges had an indented end that allowed them to put a cartridge in the barrel without the cartridge being pierced.

 

I can't explain the difference in internal diameter of the barrel that makes for a close fit. The plastic on the Imperials is generally fairly stable, and is thick enough that it doesn't shrink. They should be able to accept any cartridge. Length for the converter is another matter. Some of the earlier ones have ribs built into the end of the barrel to hold the cartridge in place that keep a standard converter from fitting, even a button converter. Some have ribs to keep the cartridge or converter from rattling around.

 

The Montiverdi mini converter usually fits. I would assume that the Kaweco mini syringe filler will work as well, and it is better made.

[stephenchin]

wasn't the 2000 model the autograph, with solid gold cap band for engraving?

 

if the OP had scrolled down a few threads, he might have found the original post from Teri at Peyton Street Pens describing the many different types of Sheaffer converters, and a very rare type of piston converter which may be the only one that works with these early Lifetime Cartridge pens:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/241534-sheaffer-converters-6-different-types/

[Paul-in-SF]

I did get a converter that works with this pen, it is an old squeeze or "aerometric" style converter, and it works like a charm.

 

So, having settled that, I have another request for information:

 

I have purchased another pen that looks exactly like the one in the photo above, all dimensions and colors the same. There are three differences: the 14K nib on this new pen is not inscribed "LIfetime" as the first one is; the clip is also not inscribed "LIfetime" or anything else except the white dot, and this pen has a Touchdown filling system.

 

Does that latter fact make this an Imperial instead of a Lifetime 2000? Or some other model? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

 

edited to add: Penhero's description of an Imperial IV from around 1961 (it could be from much later as well, apparently) matches this pen exactly, except that he does not speak to whatever might be engraved or missing from the clip. This one is blank except for the white dot. Also he does not speak specifically to the ends being squared off, but since it came after and was modeled on the PFM III, perhaps that can be taken for granted.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Paul-in-SF

[stephenchin]

Just for clarification, the OP's pen was not a 2000, which was a solid gold banded autograph model. And all Lifetime Imperials were cartridge fillers. PenHero's early Imperial page lays all of this out in detail.

 

As Ron has pointed out, the Sheaffer cartridge piercer has not changed, but there have been some changes in the way Sheaffer has made their cartridges over the years. I believe the current Slovenia production has a color-coded plug in the end, which may be slightly wider than the vintage cartridges and thereby sticking.

 

I believe the early Compact and Lifetime cartridge pens were the first attempts by Sheaffer to make a higher end, gold-nibbed, non-budget/non-student cartridge pen, so they were working out the kinks. These pens do not have the metal threads or the metal cartridge housing of the later imperials, and rely entirely on the steel piercer to keep the cartridge connected to the section.

 

They are great pens, but someone who just wants a good writer that works well with modern Sheaffer cartridges and converters and is robust may want to look at later offerings, rather than getting a bargain on an early model and wondering why the later Sheaffer products don't quite fit.

Edited June 23, 2020 by stephenchin

[Paul-in-SF]

Just for clarification, the OP's pen was not a 2000, which was a solid gold banded autograph model. And all Lifetime Imperials were cartridge fillers. PenHero's early Imperial page lays all of this out in detail.

 

Thank you for the heads-up. Here is the page on Penhero.com that I used for comparison between my pen and the Lifetime 2000. http://penhero.com/365_2010/365_010610.htm. I see that I missed that the cap band would be 14K gold, and since there is no hallmark on my pen's band, it isn't 14K gold but only gold-plated, and with some visible plating wear under magnification.

 

So by default, apparently, this pen is an Imperial IV Lifetime pen. Although I didn't find anything on Penhero.com about this specific appellation, I found a pen like it on an archive page of Peyton Street Pens. This is what they say about the name:

 

Product Name "Lifetime" version which later became the Imperial IV. In 1963, to celebrate their 50th anniversary, Sheaffer renamed some of the white dot Imperial models Lifetime which is marked on the nib, clip, cap, and barrel.

 

My pen matches these criteria so I guess it has been definitely identified, and came out in 1963 or later. And the second pen I acquired, with no Lifetime (or any other) designation and with a Touchdown filler, would be an Imperial IV from before 1963.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Paul-in-SF

[BaronWulfraed]

Second place to check for a match would be https://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html

 

Best match seems to be Sheaffer 1250 Lifetime http://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/1250%20Black%20Lifetime%20G.T.html

[mitto]

I had such a pen that wouldn't take a Sheaffer converter. I engineered a converter for the pen by shortening the length of the Sheaffer old squeeze converter.

 

Here is how I did make the costum converter for my pen.

 

The thread.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/288378-what-sheaffer-imperial-is-this/

 

Illustrating pictures.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/post-117288-0-74557700-1428321487.jpg

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/post-117288-0-20159300-1428329573.jpg

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/post-117288-0-92193400-1428329675.jpg

Edited June 30, 2020 by mitto

[FordW]

The OP isn't a 1963 Lifetime pen. Those were made for only the one year and they have the words lifetime on the clip of the pen. That looks like an imperial IV which is pretty much identical to the 1963 counterpart the lifetime 1250. The lifetime 1500 has a metal cap.

[awa54]

With my *not quite* all-encompassing experience of the Sheaffer Imperial line, I'm confident in saying that your pen has a standard Sheaffer cartridge piercing post and is designed for use with "normal" Sheaffer cartridges *only*.

 

...if the currently available ones are sticking in the barrel, either they're slightly longer and/or larger diameter than older ones (including the Slovenian carts that preceded them and that function reliably in all of my legion Sheaffer cartridge pens), or there is something stuck inside your pens barrel that's causing the interference.

This era and model of Sheaffer isn't prone to plastic shrinkage, but that's another potential cause for the issue.

Sheaffer cartridges were meant to self-pierce; you dropped a cart into the barrel (either way with the old USA made carts, but you need to orient the newer design correctly as only one end can be pierced successfully) then screwed the barrel onto the section, driving the piercer through the cartridge end in the process. This system required a step in the barrel to prevent the cart from being able to fall too deeply into the barrel and relied on moderately precise length tolerances for both pen and cartridge to function as intended.

 

I do seem to vaguely recall an early batch of the Slovenian carts from many years back, having a bit of over-mold or distorted plastic where the ink-colored end cap was heat sealed to the transparent body, which prevented them from inserting all the way into some pens... IIRC I simply trimmed the excess plastic with a knife and they worked fine afterward.

Soooo, you might have to sand, scrape, or trim the ends of these newest issue cartridges to be shorter or smaller diameter so they won't stick in the barrel of your pen?

 

As far as converters, the squeeze converters (which I have several of) are not going to fit in that variant of the Imperial, I tested several in one of my identical type pens. The barrel simply won't accommodate the full length of the converter.

The pens with plastic section threads and a squared barrel base, don't seem to have been designed for use with a converter, but the later pens with metal section threads and round barrel bases do accept converters (at least the squeeze type).

 

I personally refill Slovenian-era Sheaffer carts using a blunt tipped syringe much more often than I use any of the converters I own, which came with pens I purchased between 1980 and the mid 1990s.

The older US made ones work this way as well, but the cartridge ends are thinner plastic and eventually they start to leak, or not hold to the post/feed tube well as the plastic distorts from repeated mounting.

 

Honestly, these cartridge Imperials (and their close relatives) are among the best writing and most reliable pens in my collection and aside from ink creep in the plastic inset part of the nib they're very close to functional perfection as a type.

[joss]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:40 PM, FordW said:

The OP isn't a 1963 Lifetime pen. Those were made for only the one year and they have the words lifetime on the clip of the pen.

 

The Lifetime Imperial was introduced in 1963 and it indeed had a Lifetime imprint on clip, nib, cap and barrel. But can you share the origin of the assumption that it was made for only one year? I think that at least the Imperial Lifetime 1250 (the version with plastic cap and barrel) was in the Sheaffer catalog until at least 1967.

[Mangrove Jack]

I posted a similar question today, about another version of the Imperial, before I saw this thread. 

The cartridge I use in my pen, shown below, is a perfect fit into the barrel. 

[mitto]

I have cutomised (cut to size) a vintage Sheaffer squeeze converter to use in this pen. 

 

Here you can see :