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Sorry Twsbi,. It's Over.


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87 replies to this topic

#21 Honeybadgers

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 21:36

Whats not to understand? The OP got a lemon, a defective product, a bad apple. They shouldnt have to pay any more to get it repaired or replaced because they have already paid for a working product but didnt get it.

If you ordered shoes by mail and got a box of rocks youd have a right to get upset about it. You shouldnt have to pay to return the rocks and get your shoes.

This does not mean that your copies of the same product are somehow bad or defective. If yours work be happy. But your good experience with a product does not invalidate someone elses bad experience.

 

Different situations. OP was not sent the wrong product. THAT would be perfectly acceptable to demand an exchange at no cost from the company it was purchased from. If the product was defective when received, the vendor is the one who should be remedying the problem. If they bought it directly from TWSBI via their website or amazon, then yes, it's a crappy thing for them to not replace the product completely, as this is post sale support, not warranty support. I'd be upset about that.

 

But it sounds like the seller offered to send a new nib, which is a less than perfect situation but very common and generally not an issue unless it's for a pen with a notoriously fragile feed like the 580, but the "can't guarantee perfection" thing is just obvious. QC failing happen. There's no way to avoid that. I have gotten two dud nibs from visconti in a row, on a pen costing thirty times as much. that's inexcusable.

 

If the OP was uncomfortable exchanging nibs, they should tell the seller that, and ask that they be provided a return label so that the seller can exchange the nib for them or give them a new pen. Goulet would do this. If they won't do that, again, good reason to be upset, but not at TWSBI.

 

If the OP bought from jetpens, they will screw you over if you send them back a product and they "can't replicate the fault", they'll ban you forever from buying a product from that brand. 

 

Again, this sounds like a mild annoyance in an otherwise solid experience with the brand. I feel bad for the OP, but I would also warn them that this experience with "pay for shipping to the company for warranty work or shipping for the replacement part sent" is the experience they can expect from nearly every single company, so generally, just buy from good vendors who will take care of you for 90 days like vanness, goulet, etc.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 09 June 2020 - 21:37.

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#22 Intensity

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 00:19

This is totally normal to delegate CS to [authorized] vendors.  When you go into Best Buy and buy a refrigerator or a TV, if something is wrong with it when you bring it home, you talk to Best Buy about return or replacement.  You don't call Sony and ask them to send you a new TV.  A lot of the time manufacturer customer service will direct a customer to the vendor for service within 15-30 days of purchase, depending on vendor's rules.  It's especially relevant for manufacturers who are in a different country from the buyer or the vendor, and so shipping replacement parts is not cheap to end customer.  But authorized repair and service centers in the customer's country would have replacement parts or whole replacement units.

 

I don't really understand the need to jump on customer defense without regard to common rules of business and warranty.  In a dream world, we would all be getting perfectly tuned pens out of the box, with perfect warranty that would just fix our pens for free, with shipping covered both ways, even for minor issues that might arise over time. That just doesn't happen in reality with most purchased goods.


Edited by Intensity, 10 June 2020 - 00:21.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#23 max dog

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:42

 

The yellow TWSBI arrived day before yesterday after eleven days in transit from one post office to another just 20km apart. It's my tenth TWSBI. It's also my last, because it came out of the box with a horrible, scratchy nib and it's not going to be fixed.

 

I can't see anything obvious with the loupe and being a new pen I expected the retailer would have me covered. They suggested I buy micromesh, from another seller that would take a couple of weeks to get here, at my cost. Or they would send a spare nib for me to fit, but couldn't guarantee the pen would be perfect. If I wanted better than that I had to contact TWSBI myself.

 

This is the reply I got from TWSBI overnight:

"Jowo makes our nibs and they havve their own tolerance levels for each nib size  Some of the EF nibs just feel scratchier than others because it falls in their "tolerance range"

What is your shipping address?  I can have the factory send you a spare EF nib.  You just need to pay for shipping when they email you."
 
Not happening. Sorry TWSBI. It's over. I expected better quality and great after sales support if there was a problem. You let me down when it mattered.
 
And I do know what an EF nib is like, most of mine are.
 

 

 

While I can understand the frustration of the OP feeling like getting the run around, I think the retailer should have allowed the OP to either return the pen or provide a replacement, and the retailer should have dealt with TWSBI themselves.  Bad on the retailer.  It seems like a good gesture from TWSBI to offer to send a new nib even though according to their supplier (JOWO) there is nothing wrong with the EF nib (within tolerences).  If it was a cracked barrel, then TWSBI should have covered the shipping costs too, which they probably would in that case.  

 

I'm pretty happy with my all clear TWSBI ECO with 1.1 mm stub nib for the price.   I've had it for about 3 years now, and no cracking knock on wood, and writes great.  Not many fountain pen makers offer the kind of value TWSBI does.  Factory stub nib, piston filler, clear demonstrator, wrench, small bottle of silicone grease, all for about $40!  



#24 AmandaW

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:59

In Australia it's more than $40. And a lot to pay for something that doesn't work properly. The disappointment of being let down by both retailer and manufacturer is beyond measuring.

 

My husband worked on it. He made it write, but it's no longer EF. More like a tiny stub. I hate it. And every other pen in the TWSBI drawer.

 

Lemons are sour.


It's all about the greys...


#25 CS388

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 12:48

In Australia it's more than $40. And a lot to pay for something that doesn't work properly.

... and SHOULD work properly, as it is a brand new item.

 

I can't believe you haven't been instantly refunded by the vendor, who would then be reimbursed by Twsibi.

A sad state of affairs. You're doing the right thing by withdrawing your custom - it's now up to them to try and win you back with excellent products and sterling customer service.

 

Good luck!



#26 Helen350

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 01:52

I do agree that the vendor should have refunded you for the defective product.  However, I would also

add that if you continue buying FPs, it is going to be important that you learn how to smooth a nib with

some 1200 grit micromesh.  All collectors learn how to smooth a nib, how to make a nib wetter, how

to use shims on your nibs.  It becomes part and parcel of the hobby.  Only one of my four TWSBI

pens required a bit of smoothing, and it was a medium nib.  Even those who buy very expensive

pens have had the odd time when they were required to a smooth a nib.   I would recommend

watching YT vids by SBREBrown on nib care.  He has taught many to tweak their nibs and

resolve issues.



#27 Glenn-SC

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 23:46

 

Different situations. OP was not sent the wrong product. THAT would be perfectly acceptable to demand an exchange at no cost from the company it was purchased from. If the product was defective when received, the vendor is the one who should be remedying the problem. If they bought it directly from TWSBI via their website or amazon, then yes, it's a crappy thing for them to not replace the product completely, as this is post sale support, not warranty support. I'd be upset about that.

 

I tried to make my example simple and clear, apparentlyI made it too simple.

The OP was sent the "wrong product", they ordered a pen that worked and was sent a pen that didn't.

 

If you buy a product and receive an example that is not 100% correct and functional, that is unacceptable and should be responsible for the costs of making it correct.

 

It is truly sad that Buyers have found it acceptable to be sold defective products (pens) and then are willing to pay more to get them to function properly, and then try to convince others to accept defective products as well.



#28 gerigo

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 11:58

It would seem to me that AmandaW came here to vent and pout. There are some of us that would love to offer solutions but it would seem to be that she will not take any suggestions. So let's just hear her out and let it be.

 

So there will be one less person fighting over Twsbis and she will be missing out on a brand that has really changed the lower end of the pen business.



#29 Glenn-SC

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 20:59

It would seem to me that AmandaW came here to vent and pout. There are some of us that would love to offer solutions but it would seem to be that she will not take any suggestions. So let's just hear her out and let it be.

No, she came here to inform and warn, she paid for and got a bad item and then was told it would cost her additional time and money to get what she had already paid for.
 



#30 max dog

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 21:23

If it was another brand, they would have likely made the OP send the pen in, shipping costs at the OPs expense, and likely have been sent back several weeks later after inspecting it at the repair center, to find nothing wrong with it saying EF nib is within spec.  At least TWSBI offered to send a brand new nib.  


Edited by max dog, 16 June 2020 - 21:23.


#31 gerigo

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 21:49

I feel like I should not wade into this, but I love a good conversation. Yes Glenn I understand as has many in this thread stated, Amanda is not happy with her nib and based on our expectations as customers, manufacturers should rectify problem customers have.

 

Except that this is a fountain pen nib we are talking about. If it is ANY other part of the pen, such as a  crack or a non working piston, I am SURE that Twsbi will definitely help Amanda out. Nib are such personal things. It has been demonstrated time and again that the majority of nib problems aren't actually the fault of the pen. It's the uniqueness of the user and how they hold the pen, together with the combination of ink and paper that has such a high variable rate that manufacturer or distributor would try and help the customer trouble shoot and problem solve first before sending a replacement. As Max Dog said, Twsbi offered a new nib! I think that's pretty generous.

Most all manufacturers or distributors really want happy customers. They will want to work with the customer. I have many Twsbis and find them very reliable well made, well writing pens. I just had a Noodler's Safety end knob strip its thread. I approached Luxury pens for a replacement knob and they immediately offered to send an entire pen.

Calm down. Accept the replacement nib. See how that works. If it does not work, I am sure Twsbi will make it right.



#32 max dog

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 22:25

I feel like I should not wade into this, but I love a good conversation. Yes Glenn I understand as has many in this thread stated, Amanda is not happy with her nib and based on our expectations as customers, manufacturers should rectify problem customers have.

 

Except that this is a fountain pen nib we are talking about. If it is ANY other part of the pen, such as a  crack or a non working piston, I am SURE that Twsbi will definitely help Amanda out. Nib are such personal things. It has been demonstrated time and again that the majority of nib problems aren't actually the fault of the pen. It's the uniqueness of the user and how they hold the pen, together with the combination of ink and paper that has such a high variable rate that manufacturer or distributor would try and help the customer trouble shoot and problem solve first before sending a replacement. As Max Dog said, Twsbi offered a new nib! I think that's pretty generous.

Most all manufacturers or distributors really want happy customers. They will want to work with the customer. I have many Twsbis and find them very reliable well made, well writing pens. I just had a Noodler's Safety end knob strip its thread. I approached Luxury pens for a replacement knob and they immediately offered to send an entire pen.

Calm down. Accept the replacement nib. See how that works. If it does not work, I am sure Twsbi will make it right.

+1



#33 AmandaW

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 00:02

I prefer very fine nibs and have many in many brands because I'm always looking for a line so delicate it's almost spidery for drawing and hatching.

 

This one was my 8th TWSBI Eco with an EF nib - I have been collecting colours since 2016. I also have a Platinum 3776 with  an UEF nib, a Platinum Carbon Desk Pen with an EF - both of those probably define extra fine. And countless others. I do know what to expect. Changing ink didn't fix it. It didn't look misaligned. Horrible thing. It was simply a lemon.

 

If I had bought the pen secondhand or cheap or on clearance or some reason I'd have accepted it and figured something out, but in this instance it was brand new and full price, plus very-slow COVID-affected shipping. No way. Not my problem.

 

The retailer lost a customer because, instead of swapping the pen, they said TWSBI will not allow them to handle it. TWSBI blamed Jowo and wanted me to pay and wait for international shipping (how long was that going to take in the current situation?) The buck-passing by both of them was not good enough. Any company is only as good as their handling of their problem situations.


It's all about the greys...


#34 MuddyWaters

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 02:04

Like others have said, you are passing on a company with comparatively better customer service than other companies.

Secondly, you're passing on a pen maker (which you evidently appreciated in the past for its products) when the bulk of the problem is with your retailer.

Link to a post about ergonomics I made: http://www.fountainp...with/?p=4179072


#35 Twister292

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 08:17

Considering TWSBI have always replaced parts for my pens at postage cost alone, I'd take that over Visconti where a pen costing 1500EUR needed 2 trips to Italy and one to the local AD before it wrote properly



#36 Glenn-SC

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 13:46

What TWSBI did in the past or does for others is irrelevant and/or an insult when they treat a repeat customer like this.

How other FP companies treat their customers is also not relevant. We are concerned with this company in specific.

Who is supposed to be loyal to who? ( Or is that Whom to Whom?)

I own no TWSBIs, but the person in the next office bought one and left me try it. It was bad, scratchy with poor ink flow. He put it aside and never used it. He was happy with another brands Student pen.

#37 Olya

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 14:13

What TWSBI did in the past or does for others is irrelevant and/or an insult when they treat a repeat customer like this.

How other FP companies treat their customers is also not relevant. We are concerned with this company in specific.

Who is supposed to be loyal to who? ( Or is that Whom to Whom?)

I own no TWSBIs, but the person in the next office bought one and left me try it. It was bad, scratchy with poor ink flow. He put it aside and never used it. He was happy with another brands Student pen.

"Who to whom" :)


Edited by Olya, 18 June 2020 - 14:13.


#38 Glenn-SC

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 17:05

"Who to whom" :)


oy vey!!!

#39 Honeybadgers

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 05:29

In Australia it's more than $40. And a lot to pay for something that doesn't work properly. The disappointment of being let down by both retailer and manufacturer is beyond measuring.

 

My husband worked on it. He made it write, but it's no longer EF. More like a tiny stub. I hate it. And every other pen in the TWSBI drawer.

 

Lemons are sour.

 

I'm sorry your experience was so unpleasnt for you but....

 

Seriously, chill. If every other TWSBI in that drawer writes the way you want it to.... then I'd argue you are severely overreacting. Your emotions are not invalid, but it sounds like your perspective is being quite stilted by them.

Living in Australia also has its own subset of problems that you need to just be aware of. Customer service down there for basically everything is the price you guys pay for your "winters" being "one degree below ideal surfing weather". Well, and the spiders. Your grievance is really with the vendor. Not TWSBI. Because it sounds (correct me if I'm wrong) like you bought from a vendor outside of upside down land who then pointed you to interact with a TWSBI branch that doesn't directly service australia (not sure if TWSBI services australia at all for that matter, they may do it remotely through a third party like platinum does in the USA - you send items to luxury brands, not platinum. Or coles with visconti) so the lesson to learn is that you might not want to buy pens from retailers that you don't know and trust. 

 

I had a similar experience with a pilot vanishing point nib from jetpens. It was bad, skippy like mad and had severe baby's bottom. Pilot wanted shipping money, Jetpens "couldn't replicate the issue" and insisted to return the defective product to me. I refused and asked that they refund me instead. They then banned me from ever buying a pilot product from them again. That's appalling customer service, but it's not Pilot's fault. It's Jetpens'.

 

Glenn, you also need to think about it in context. We're not talking about "fixing the industry so we all get perfect pens every time out of the box" here. The reality of the world is not that way and complaining to a tiny obscure subset of people about isn't going to change that either. If "it's generally quite good, their customer service is quite reasonable, and compared to many other brands costing many times as much, they're stellar" then you need to look at the flaws in context because nobody, company or human, is perfect.

 

And I say this coming as someone who kinda hates Philip Wang and is super, super anti-corporate interest. There are legitimate reasons to have grievances with TWSBI. This ain't one of them.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#40 Honeybadgers

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 05:36

 

The OP was sent the "wrong product", they ordered a pen that worked and was sent a pen that didn't.

 

 

This is not how anything works unless we're talking things protected by lemon laws like cars and houses in America (unsure of consumer protection laws in AU however, I know they and the UK are actually quite a bit more strict in some ways) 

 

You aren't getting a wrong product. In hard, strict terms, you are getting the correct part number/SKU. But you are getting a product that has manufacturer defects. And there are no obligations on any manufacturer - in the USA at least - that the manufacturer pay for shipping on replacement or repair. Is it annoying? Yes. But to insist that they do it when nobody else does is kind of utopian, particularly when you're shooting yourself in the foot and now convincing yourself that you hate the $400 worth of pens you already own that write perfectly fine over it.

 

This is not a perfect world. But we know these problems exist and there are safe and reasonable workarounds for them - buying from reputable sellers. Again, not 100% sure what the situation is like in AU, but buying grey market just because you really want a thing, it does become a bit of a "caveat emptor" situation. You buy that platinum 3776 from japan, yeah, it was way cheaper, but you can't be upset at platinum for not wanting to service it.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 20 June 2020 - 05:36.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)







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