Omas Ogiva - Arco Green

[Seney724]

I'm hoping our Omas experts will have an answer for this one.......

 

In 2013, Omas created a limited edition Ogiva (FP & RB) in Arco Brown and Saft Green. Beautiful pens!

 

From time to time, one sees one of these modern Ogiva pens being produced in Arco Green. And, being sold as such..........

My question is whether the modern day Omas Factory ever actually produced this pen in Arco Green before they closed down?

 

I have had the privilege of actually inspecting two of these putative Arco Green Ogivas in person. Likewise, beautiful pens. However than an Omas nib (which is not the same special nib employed on the LE Arco Brown or Saft Green Ogiva) there are no Omas markings on the pen itself!

 

It is my belief that these Arco Green Ogivas are not actually "official" Omas Factory produced pens but a small run of pens made using Omas components in an "aftermarket" type manner.

 

I know of one very well known and highly regarded European pen seller who is know to have had access to Omas rods in the past and is also known to have created full pens using these Omas rods and other Omas parts. My suspicion is that this current small number of Arco Green Ogivas which are being sold as Omas pens are really not pens produced by Omas but instead all stem back to a small production run by this talented individual in his personal atelier using Omas parts.

 

Can anyone confirm or refute this theory. Has someone actually seen one of these putative Omas pens with all of the expected Omas imprints and a correct nib?

Edited April 7, 2020 by Seney724

[fpupulin]

Now, I believe there is also another possibility.

 

The pens that appear every now and then on the market and which are not, for one reason or another, 100% OMAS, have nonetheless such precision in the shapes and dimensions, as well as in the metal parts and trims, to make me suppose that they have not been created by third parties, but by OMAS itself, although perhaps they were not designed to be marketed or who knows under what circumstances.

 

In the period preceding the defeat of the company, for weeks or perhaps months, there must have been a continuous "leakage" of pens, materials and components from the OMAS gates to the hands of unofficial dealers. This was before that the group of Mr. Caltagirone signed an official agreement with the owners of OMAS to acquire all the remaining stock of pens and celluloid rods.

 

In the specific case of Ogiva, I found numerous pens in the Arco brown celluloid, perfectly identical to those marketed by OMAS in a limited edition, but not numbered, sometimes with characteristics that - regardless of their "legitimacy" - are in my opinion even more desirable than the original (for example, equipped with real vintage OMAS flexible nibs, such as the Extra or Extra Lucens nibs).

 

How many of these pens or parts of pens were "leaked"? I have no idea, but the relative frequency with which they appear makes me think that the OMAS workers, as the crisis approached, produced "on their own" and perhaps upon request (strictly unofficial) a good number of pens in the more requested shapes and colors. If this had been the case, it would have been understandable that the people of OMAS had tried to make some profits for the future, when their jobs were close to being liquidated.

 

It may well be that it was not possible to "complete" the pens with some of the finest components, such as the nibs, because they were not already available in certain finishes or because they were simply kept in places inaccessible to the workers.

 

So, strictly speaking, many of these pens were truly OMAS products, made in the OMAS factory, even though not branded as such, and perhaps often not complete for one or another detail or component. The latter were added successively,re-using parts of older pens or replacement parts that OMAS had sold to third parties.

[Seney724]

Now, I believe there is also another possibility.

 

The pens that appear every now and then on the market and which are not, for one reason or another, 100% OMAS, have nonetheless such precision in the shapes and dimensions, as well as in the metal parts and trims, to make me suppose that they have not been created by third parties, but by OMAS itself, although perhaps they were not designed to be marketed or who knows under what circumstances.

 

In the period preceding the defeat of the company, for weeks or perhaps months, there must have been a continuous "leakage" of pens, materials and components from the OMAS gates to the hands of unofficial dealers. This was before that the group of Mr. Caltagirone signed an official agreement with the owners of OMAS to acquire all the remaining stock of pens and celluloid rods.

 

In the specific case of Ogiva, I found numerous pens in the Arco brown celluloid, perfectly identical to those marketed by OMAS in a limited edition, but not numbered, sometimes with characteristics that - regardless of their "legitimacy" - are in my opinion even more desirable than the original (for example, equipped with real vintage OMAS flexible nibs, such as the Extra or Extra Lucens nibs).

 

How many of these pens or parts of pens were "leaked"? I have no idea, but the relative frequency with which they appear makes me think that the OMAS workers, as the crisis approached, produced "on their own" and perhaps upon request (strictly unofficial) a good number of pens in the more requested shapes and colors. If this had been the case, it would have been understandable that the people of OMAS had tried to make some profits for the future, when their jobs were close to being liquidated.

 

It may well be that it was not possible to "complete" the pens with some of the finest components, such as the nibs, because they were not already available in certain finishes or because they were simply kept in places inaccessible to the workers.

 

So, strictly speaking, many of these pens were truly OMAS products, made in the OMAS factory, even though not branded as such, and perhaps often not complete for one or another detail or component. The latter were added successively,re-using parts of older pens or replacement parts that OMAS had sold to third parties.

Perfectly and 100% correctly stated fpupulin. Well done.

I agree completely.

 

A very good example, albeit Tibaldi and not Omas, are the large number of Blue Trasparente pens of the early 90's which never got any numbers or imprints as the Factory doors were closing. It was a LE of, I believe, 1500 pens less than 1/2 of which were ever imprinted with their LE numbers. They were sold off, without imprints, by the dozens to whomever would take them. All made in the Factory by the workers...just never marked Tibaldi or numbered.

 

This particular Omas, the Arco Verde Ogiva is a bit of a different animal though. The particular collector / seller / craftsman to whom I have referred, has spoken often & freely of the rods he acquired from Omas before the doors shut. He is a known virtuoso on the lathe and he, himself, definitely produced at least one Arco Verde Ogiva which he sold to someone I know. That pen is one of the two pens I have personally inspected. The second pen I have personally inspected is identical. My hypothesis is he is the person who has produced all of the very small number of them which have come up for sale.

 

For the purposes of this thread, however, I am not looking to confirm or refute this hypothesis. I am just looking to see if anyone has seen an Omas Arco Verde Ogiva which carries the Omas imprints and markings which would signify that it came from the Omas Factory as an official Omas production. I do not believe there were any such pens produced but I look to the vast amount of knowledge and insight which exists among the FPN members who serve as our Omas experts. None, of course, fit this description more than you fpupulin; so, your comments are of special value.

[JulieParadise]

@fpupulin: This is exactly what a very well renowned pen repairer / dealer has told me last year when I had the chance to have some pens re-corked (new cork seal) in his workshop. The phenomenon of "disappearing" pens in considerable quantities was, as he said, one of the reasons for the demise of OMAS.

[fabri00]

It could be also that celluloid rods were purchased from the suppliers of Omas, as Omas was not producing the celluloid in house, and then turned.

In fact there are much less faceted pens appearing on the market, as turning with a lathe a round body is easy, but making a faceted one is much more complicate.

[como]

I have one of such pens, an Ogiva in Arco Brown, fitted with a vintage Omas nib, every bit as Omas as the normal Omas that we all know. But no "OMAS Made In Italy" marking on the cap or elsewhere. I bought it from a well known European pen maker/restorer (I am sure many know who he is :-). He told me that the pen came from Omas factory around the time the factory was closing down, hence the "no marking". I think the Omas Arco Brown and the Omas Ogiva Saft Green came out as a special run of 500+ 527 edition. There was no price premium or discount of my "no marking" Ogiva Arco Brown compared to the normal Omas Arco Brown. For my preference, I don't mind the "no marking" and I really love the big soft Omas vintage nib on it (probably came from an old Omas desk pen).

Edited April 8, 2020 by como

[Seney724]

I have one of such pens, an Ogiva in Arco Brown, fitted with a vintage Omas nib, every bit as Omas as the normal Omas that we all know. But no "OMAS Made In Italy" marking on the cap or elsewhere. I bought it from a well known European pen maker/restorer (I am sure many know who he is :-). He told me that the pen came from Omas factory around the time the factory was closing down, hence the "no marking". I think the Omas Arco Brown and the Omas Ogiva Saft Green came out as a special run of 500+ edition. There was no price premium or discount of my "no marking" Ogiva Arco Brown compared to the normal Omas Arco Brown. For my preference, I don't mind the "no marking" and I really love the big soft Omas vintage nib on it (probably came from an old Omas desk pen).

Yes, como, I think you, JulieParadise and I may well all be talking about the same person.

 

And, to the point made by fabri00, since the Ogiva is round it is not at all unlikely that a person of such skill on the lathe could duplicate it in their atelier.

 

como, I do believe this seller probably acquired the Arco Brown "overruns" from the Factory and assembled them just as you say.....

 

But the Arco Verde Ogiva pieces were created from the rods in this individual's shop.

 

It is important to note this person is not the one who sells them as "Omas Factory" Arco Verde Ogiva FPs; the wording on the seller's website when there were two such pens for sale was very carefully composed.

 

It is the others who have subsequently put these pens up for sale who have described them as having come from the House of Omas. I think many of them do not realize this is incorrect.

 

Again, my reason for asking we discuss is not to in any way disparage the pens or the current sellers. I just want to assure that no one knows of any pieces which originated at the Factory and were sold by Omas as such.

 

Thank you to all.

[como]

+1. I put my regular Omas Ogiva Arco Brown (xxx of 527, with "OMAS Made in Italy" marking on cap) and the unmarked Ogiva Arco Brown next to each other, and I can't tell the difference, same length, girth, weight, piston feel, they seem identical apart from the pattern variations. I do consider it an Omas pen. Not an official Omas, but one that came out of the demised Omas factory under the unfortunate circumstances.

 

Of course from selling point of view, any buyer would appreciate the full extent of a pen's background, whether it affects price or not, whether it's of importance to the buyer or not, so buyer can decide if he or she wants it in such condition. Clarity is always appreciated.

 

In terms of price, personally I believe it deserves at least as much as an ASC Arco pen, if not more. That's the pricing framework I put it.

 

Now, I believe there is also another possibility.
... for one reason or another, 100% OMAS, have nonetheless such precision in the shapes and dimensions, as well as in the metal parts and trims, to make me suppose that they have not been created by third parties, but by OMAS itself, although perhaps they were not designed to be marketed or who knows under what circumstances.

[Seney724]

+1. I put my regular Omas Ogiva Arco Brown (xxx of 527, with "OMAS Made in Italy" marking on cap) and the unmarked Ogiva Arco Brown next to each other, and I can't tell the difference, same length, girth, weight, piston feel, they seem identical apart from the pattern variations. I do consider it an Omas pen. Not an official Omas, but one that came out of the demised Omas factory under the unfortunate circumstances.

 

Of course from selling point of view, any buyer would appreciate the full extent of a pen's background, whether it affects price or not, whether it's of importance to the buyer or not, so buyer can decide if he or she wants it in such condition. Clarity is always appreciated.

 

In terms of price, personally I believe it deserves at least as much as an ASC Arco pen, if not more. That's the pricing framework I put it.

 

MORE!!

 

Definitely more!!

(That or the ASC Arco pen should be much less......... )

Edited April 8, 2020 by Seney724

[fpupulin]

I have one of such pens, an Ogiva in Arco Brown, fitted with a vintage Omas nib [...]. For my preference, I don't mind the "no marking" and I really love the big soft Omas vintage nib on it (probably came from an old Omas desk pen).

 

 

como, those nibs were simply spectacular!

 

Also from my point of view, a pen produced at OMAS factory by OMAS highly specialized artisans, with OMAS materials, components and trims, and fitted with a true OMAS nib, is simply a OMAS.

Congratulations for owning such a splendid pen as an Ogiva Arco (well, I understand that you own nothing less than two...) with such a splendid nib like those inimitable OMAS Extras!

 

As to the original post, the very greatest rarity of the Arco Green Ogiva (I never saw one) amply supports Seney724's view that those bodies were turned in a private atelier, probably adapting the trims of other Ogivas originally made by OMAS. I have no experience at all with a lathe, but I find extraordinary the capacity to turn a pen body with the same exact specifications as the original, factory made Ogiva.

 

Seney724, we would be grateful, would it be possible, if you could post a photo of such a rare beast.

[Seney724]

 

 

como, those nibs were simply spectacular!

 

Also from my point of view, a pen produced at OMAS factory by OMAS highly specialized artisans, with OMAS materials, components and trims, and fitted with a true OMAS nib, is simply a OMAS.

Congratulations for owning such a splendid pen as an Ogiva Arco (well, I understand that you own nothing less than two...) with such a splendid nib like those inimitable OMAS Extras!

 

As to the original post, the very greatest rarity of the Arco Green Ogiva (I never saw one) amply supports Seney724's view that those bodies were turned in a private atelier, probably adapting the trims of other Ogivas originally made by OMAS. I have no experience at all with a lathe, but I find extraordinary the capacity to turn a pen body with the same exact specifications as the original, factory made Ogiva.

 

Seney724, we would be grateful, would it be possible, if you could post a photo of such a rare beast.

With pleasure fpupulin. It happens that one is currently for sale on eBay.

As you will see, it looks to be identical to the 2013 Omas Ogiva Limited Editions in Arco Brown & Saft Green. However, to the best of my knowledge, Omas did not produce any in Arco Verde. You will also not see any Omas markings or imprints on this pen....... other than on the nib. I believe this to be one of the several such pens made from an authentic Omas rod but turned on the lathe of a very skilled penmaker in a private atelier away from the Omas Factory.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-OMAS-OGIVA-ARCO-VERDE-CELLULOID-18K-MEDIUM-NIB/114004373701?hash=item1a8b30b0c5:g:Uj0AAOSwKp1dmn0~

[dms525]

Another possibility: In the 1990's (not sure of the date), Marco of Novelli in Rome had OMAS make 30 Ogivas in each of 5 celluloids for his shop. I have one in black Lucens. There is no OMAS identification on the pen barrel. There is a Limited Edition number of the form "XX/30" engraved on the section. You may well need magnification to find it.

 

Mine is a standard Ogiva size and shape with a standard OMAS gold nib.

 

David

[Seney724]

Another possibility: In the 1990's (not sure of the date), Marco of Novelli in Rome had OMAS make 30 Ogivas in each of 5 celluloids for his shop. I have one in black Lucens. There is no OMAS identification on the pen barrel. There is a Limited Edition number of the form "XX/30" engraved on the section. You may well need magnification to find it.

 

Mine is a standard Ogiva size and shape with a standard OMAS gold nib.

 

David

Hi David & thanks!

Lucky you, I know that special edition Novelli Ogiva, it is a gorgeous pen.

 

I don't know if Marco had any Arco Verdes in that special edition series of pens for his terrific store. He visits here quite often; hopefully he will leave a post and let us know.

 

I did, specifically, look for that LE marking on the two Arco Verde Ogivas I have personally inspected...just because the LE number was engraved on the 2013 LE run of Arco Brown & Saft Green pens in that same place. There was nothing there in either case. Since I knew for a fact that the first of the two had come from the private atelier of the non-Omas source I didn't expect to see anything, of course, and did not. By the time I got to look at the second I was already very suspicious that it had come from the same source so I look there simply as a matter of helping me assure I made every effort to discriminate between the private production and one made at the Factory, itself.

[dms525]

Hi David & thanks!

Lucky you, I know that special edition Novelli Ogiva, it is a gorgeous pen.

 

I don't know if Marco had any Arco Verdes in that special edition series of pens for his terrific store. He visits here quite often; hopefully he will leave a post and let us know.

 

I did, specifically, look for that LE marking on the two Arco Verde Ogivas I have personally inspected...just because the LE number was engraved on the 2013 LE run of Arco Brown & Saft Green pens in that same place. There was nothing there in either case. Since I knew for a fact that the first of the two had come from the private atelier of the non-Omas source I didn't expect to see anything, of course, and did not. By the time I got to look at the second I was already very suspicious that it had come from the same source so I look there simply as a matter of helping me assure I made every effort to discriminate between the private production and one made at the Factory, itself.

 

As it happens, I have both of the 2013 OMAS Ogiva LE's to which you referred - the Arco Bronze and the Saft Green. I do believe Marco's LE's included both green and bronze arcos, as well as the black Lucens. I am not sure what the other two materials were anymore. I would dearly love to have an arco green ogiva.

 

David

[Seney724]

 

As it happens, I have both of the 2013 OMAS Ogiva LE's to which you referred - the Arco Bronze and the Saft Green. I do believe Marco's LE's included both green and bronze arcos, as well as the black Lucens. I am not sure what the other two materials were anymore. I would dearly love to have an arco green ogiva.

 

David

Wow, nice collection David!

 

I bet you are right. And, if so, it would be a great way to enable the discrimination of a Omas / Novelli "Factory" Arco Verde Ogivas from the others which likely did not originate from the "Factory."

 

As for your acquiring an Arco Green Ogiva, they do pop up with some regularity....as you have seen there is one on eBay right now. My guess is what is holding you up is the pricing and I don't blame you one bit. I think that is too much $$ too. Yes, I agree with como, an aftermarket / unmarked Arco Verde Ogiva (which is made with all authentic Omas materials) is worth more than an ASC Arco Verde. But, IMO, not that much more unless, maybe, it was one of the Novelli (marked/numbered) special editions!!

[como]

Thank you, fpupulin. As you pointed out, many vintage Omas nibs are real gems and require a much lighter hand to write.

 

como, those nibs were simply spectacular!

 

Also from my point of view, a pen produced at OMAS factory by OMAS highly specialized artisans, with OMAS materials, components and trims, and fitted with a true OMAS nib, is simply a OMAS.

Congratulations for owning such a splendid pen as an Ogiva Arco (well, I understand that you own nothing less than two...) with such a splendid nib like those inimitable OMAS Extras!

 

dms525/David: Thank you for the info on Novelli Ogiva Arco Verde. I can only imagine how stunning it must be!

Seney724: Pricing is a very subjective matter. I understand that Arco Verde is a bit more rare than Arco Brown, so some sellers might justify some premium over Arco Brown. What's good is that between Omas, ASC, Oldwin and some custom-made Arco pens, there is enough data points for a buyer to decide for him/herself what's a reasonable market price range for such things.

Wow, nice collection David!

 

I bet you are right. And, if so, it would be a great way to enable the discrimination of a Omas / Novelli "Factory" Arco Verde Ogivas from the others which likely did not originate from the "Factory."

 

As for your acquiring an Arco Green Ogiva, they do pop up with some regularity....as you have seen there is one on eBay right now. My guess is what is holding you up is the pricing and I don't blame you one bit. I think that is too much $$ too. Yes, I agree with como, an aftermarket / unmarked Arco Verde Ogiva (which is made with all authentic Omas materials) is worth more than an ASC Arco Verde. But, IMO, not that much more unless, maybe, it was one of the Novelli (marked/numbered) special editions!!

[Seney724]

Thank you, fpupulin. As you pointed out, many vintage Omas nibs are real gems and require a much lighter hand to write.

 

dms525/David: Thank you for the info on Novelli Ogiva Arco Verde. I can only imagine how stunning it must be!

Seney724: Pricing is a very subjective matter. I understand that Arco Verde is a bit more rare than Arco Brown, so some sellers might justify some premium over Arco Brown. What's good is that between Omas, ASC, Oldwin and some custom-made Arco pens, there is enough data points for a buyer to decide for him/herself what's a reasonable market price range for such things.

I agree como. But surely you agree there are some objective components as well?

 

More than quality of workmanship & reliability of customer service (which is decidedly lacking in one of the choices you cite), I have to believe that a "branded" pen will have more collectability value......if (and an important "if") one cares about such a thing. Nothing can compare with the joy of a beautiful pen which writes like no other. Such a pen is invaluable to the owner.

 

So, I do not disagree with those who dismiss collectability value as a consideration when making the purchase and are just as happy with an unmarked, unbranded pen. But to spend a small fortune on a pen which has known "QC" issues and a reputation for abysmal customer service makes no sense to me at all.

[como]

Well, Seney724, let's just say that I am going to enjoy playing with my pens and not worrying about the collectibility value too much. The economics of the pen hobby is never going to work out. At best the aim is to be under control .

I agree como. But surely you agree there are some objective components as well?

 

More than quality of workmanship & reliability of customer service (which is decidedly lacking in one of the choices you cite), I have to believe that a "branded" pen will have more collectability value......if (and an important "if") one cares about such a thing. Nothing can compare with the joy of a beautiful pen which writes like no other. Such a pen is invaluable to the owner.

 

So, I do not disagree with those who dismiss collectability value as a consideration when making the purchase and are just as happy with an unmarked, unbranded pen. But to spend a small fortune on a pen which has known "QC" issues and a reputation for abysmal customer service makes no sense to me at all.

[fpupulin]

As it happens, I have both of the 2013 OMAS Ogiva LE's to which you referred - the Arco Bronze and the Saft Green. I do believe Marco's LE's included both green and bronze arcos, as well as the black Lucens. I am not sure what the other two materials were anymore. I would dearly love to have an arco green ogiva.

 

David

Dear David: not only your collection of perfectly selected pens is endless, like a bottomless pit, but for our luck you also are a rare example of “enlightened encyclopedist”, willing to share your treasures and experience with others.

 

Thank you very much for this.

[Ron Z]

Don't forget that manufacturers will always make more parts for a pen than will be needed for the number of pens to be sold so that they have spare parts. These typically are not marked, and would be engraved with the usual imprint, and LE numbers when the replacement art was fitted to the pen. I have seen many Sheaffer and Parker parts, some with the manufacturers imprint, others not, usually no date code, clearly NOS. Conway Steward was doing this with their modern pens when the barrel had a number. If you sent it to them for replacement, they would put the original number on the barrel when they repaired the pen.

 

Extra parts would make their way out of the factory married to other parts to make a complete pen.