Conid Clone By Penbbs?

[Jamerelbe]

Having seen the diagram for the new filling mechanism design, I have a feeling people are going to restate their case of PenBBS copying Conid with the new locking mechanism.

 

I won't be among the crowd of complainers: I could never afford a Conid (assuming they get their production line moving again!), but for the price I've just ordered one of the redesigned 355s. Now just have to wait for delivery from China...

[Karmachanic]

Having seen the diagram for the new filling mechanism design, I have a feeling people are going to restate their case of PenBBS copying Conid with the new locking mechanism.

More like inspired by Conid. As Mech-for-i points out, syringe filler system is not new.

[maclink]

I've been by the etsy.com and had a look at the diagram. I'm not convinced that they've completely mimicked the Conid design, especially when they describe pulling back hard on the piston before turning clockwise to disengage the rod from the piston. The beauty of the Conid design is not having to use any force. Nothing snaps into place. It's a simple latch mechanism that the Conid logo is based on.

[Cyclohexene]

I've been by the etsy.com and had a look at the diagram. I'm not convinced that they've completely mimicked the Conid design, especially when they describe pulling back hard on the piston before turning clockwise to disengage the rod from the piston. The beauty of the Conid design is not having to use any force. Nothing snaps into place. It's a simple latch mechanism that the Conid logo is based on.

Were you perhaps looking at the old mechanism diagram? The old design was a snap fitting mechanism, while the new design has little knobs that latch onto small cutouts. The filling instruction (in Chinese) also doesn't mention forcing anything to snap.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Cyclohexene

[JonSzanto]

Instead of going back-and-forth about the new mechanism, if anyone wants to see two images of the new lock they were posted on the PenBBS Instagram feed.

[boulderchips]

Only downside I found with the 355 is that the cap is a bit short inside so nib swap options are more limited (it won't fit a JoWo nib) so mine is a bit of a mashup - finial, section and tail pieces from a galaxy colored one and the cap/barrel are from the demonstrator, and the nib is a levenger medium titanium.

 

Overall I love it.

I never thought about mixing parts from different finishes, but this sounds like a sweet setup.

 

I'm also waiting on one of the new 355s. I like the look of the new locking mechanism, and I'm also hopeful that the extra metal might improve the heft/balance for my hand. Now for the long wait...

[maclink]

Instead of going back-and-forth about the new mechanism, if anyone wants to see two images of the new lock they were posted on the PenBBS Instagram feed.

I was definitely looking at the old system. Interesting design.

[Honeybadgers]

Well I ordered a new model galaxy. Hopefully its piston still fits the old model barrel so I can maintain my galaxy finial, clear cap, galaxy section, clear barrel, galaxy knob frankenpen with a levenger titanium nib.

[fountainbel]

The improved Penbbs design - integrating the bajonet anchoring of the piston - is clearly a patent infringement on the Conid Bulkfiller patent.

Francis

[Mech-for-i]

The improved Penbbs design - integrating the bajonet anchoring of the piston - is clearly a patent infringement on the Conid Bulkfiller patent.

Francis

AFAIK, you cannot patent a generic engineering mechanism like the bayonet or screw , and that's why the mechanism is open to all to use , the patent on Conid is on the specific implementation of the mechanism, thus say size, and parts spec etc .. this is how originality of patent law come to be , that is idea are not to be patented, but specific made and implementation are and can be patented .. Conid patent only apply when the parts are to be made as they are as how Conid do it, if its just the general concept of a Bayonet fitting , it cannot be considered a patent infringement and regarding that Conid is not the one who invent bayonet fitting nor one who invent it for a valve ( control of liquid flow )

[penzel_washinkton]

The improved Penbbs design - integrating the bajonet anchoring of the piston - is clearly a patent infringement on the Conid Bulkfiller patent.

Francis

 

Please provide the specific Conid patent that PenBBS infringed on as reference

[Honeybadgers]

The improved Penbbs design - integrating the bajonet anchoring of the piston - is clearly a patent infringement on the Conid Bulkfiller patent.

Francis

 

No....? It isn't?

 

Not even a little? The materials and parts that the locks engage into are totally different in construction. There needs to be much more specific evidence for patent infringement.

 

The same logic applied to early lever fillers that were patented. The idea of compressing a sac was not inherently patentable, so companies invented matchstick, coin, crescent fillers, etc.

[Cyclohexene]

The improved Penbbs design - integrating the bajonet anchoring of the piston - is clearly a patent infringement on the Conid Bulkfiller patent.

Francis

Big can of worms you've opened ain't it buddy?

[WaskiSquirrel]

 

Please provide the specific Conid patent that PenBBS infringed on as reference

 

My understanding is that this filling mechanism predates both companies. This patent dates from 1898. As you say, patent infringement would require something very specific that Conid has patented.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US610818

Edited June 5, 2020 by Waski_the_Squirrel

[JonSzanto]

I've watched over the last 3 months as untold numbers of everyday people have fashioned themselves into virologists, epidemiologists, and general medical professionals, all in service of giving advice to others, courtesy of their Internet 'research'..

 

I'm wondering how many practicing patent attorneys, legal scholars, and patent holders are participating in this thread.

[Mech-for-i]

I had work in technology sector for decades and involved in patent application and processes alike and my understanding is that most people really do not understand what and how patent work and the legal and legislative rational behind it.

 

I recall the case of Lotus trying to sue others for look and feel on their spreadsheet software 1-2-3 and that is a very clear case if similarity to many of similar that which an old idea and how it could be implemented ; and someone implement a product patent it ( or copyright ) then proceed to think any form of implementation is thus infringing on theirs but the law and the legal rational actually protect that specific implementation not giving the holder exclusive rights to the concept and idea behind it and certainly not some generic one like accounting sheets - needless to say Lotus lose its cases

 

It is very much similar for many mature technology items like fountain pen but also many advanced technogy items say LCD screen

Edited June 5, 2020 by Mech-for-i

[JonSzanto]

I had work in technology sector for decades and involved in patent application and processes alike and my understanding is that most people really do not understand what and how patent work and the legal and legislative rational behind it.

 

Yes, that was my underlying point: lack of direct experience and knowledge is frequently not a sufficient impediment to lots of opinionated typing.

[Honeybadgers]

I've watched over the last 3 months as untold numbers of everyday people have fashioned themselves into virologists, epidemiologists, and general medical professionals, all in service of giving advice to others, courtesy of their Internet 'research'..

 

I'm wondering how many practicing patent attorneys, legal scholars, and patent holders are participating in this thread.

 

Because it's objectively impossible to provide an educated opinion based on reasonable research, and your ideas are inherently invalid unless you're licensed or contain a degree in X?

Yeah, I see a lot of people who googled WebMD. But a whole lot of them also guessed right that their right upper quadrant abdominal pain might be appendicitis and they probably should come in and have it checked out.

 

People who quote facebook trash without doing more research or a cursory fact checking are a problem. People who say to themselves "hmm. I'm interested in X. I'd like to learn more" are not.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Honeybadgers

[JonSzanto]

Not inherently, no. Also not anywhere as valid as someone who might actually know what they are talking about from experience in that field. Hence my pondering on the opinions so easily given in this subject area.

[Mech-for-i]

Opinion is OK, we all had opinion(s) , but opinionated to the point that regarding every thing and every argument that's put forth as fact is in itself just making oneself prejudiced against anything that might be more matter of fact, reasonable, or rational despite those not being of the same opinion so to speak ...

 

In our field of hobby , at least there is really little to debate , its a mature technology , its not like there's really something new under the sun , now and then we got something new , I think the last one was automated and controlled multi axis lathe which can create parts previously very difficult or impossible to made , then we had 3D printing which really is yet another mean to the same goal , but those are in the manufacturing knowhow , not the pens itself, the pens really there is no advance for decades and that is not a problem ... the wheel had been invented thousands of years ago and its not like its not working and need a replacement

 

In a way Conid, PenBBS, Edison and them some others who bring back old technology and bestow them on us is in itself a good thing , we got to enjoy how technology had been and can be now. Prime example must be the Wing Sung 601 series, no one deny that its the old Parker Vacumetic mechanism and even Wing Sung flatly admit it , but before the 601 it will take custom order to get a new production Vacumetic and many fellow hobbyist might not had the mean or are not comfortable with working vintage pens. The 601 just made that technology now open to everyone and at affordable price. The same can be said for many a PenBBS models and some other Mfr's both Chinese and non Chinese

 

I do understand the negativity that might be there and some of them are justified ( against some Chinese fountain pen ) while some are not , vintage models aside ( which are born of a socio -economical background rooted in a historical political background , say Hero 616, people really do not understand the social aspect of the story unless you study the human sociology of said period in depth or like me a person who actually live through it ). Some of them are though knee jerk reaction of an in bake negative image that China and Chinese business ( the Government, not he people or country ) present and many are all in between

 

Topics as posted on this thread is somewhat on one side of the scale , would it be more constructive if the OP post a title and discuss something like " Conid Bulk Filler vs PenBBS 355 " and not flat out just state one is a clone without actually checking if its a clone or not !!

 

Some day I might, might be I should , write a short long post about the Chinese pens and why and how they come to be after the war ( and might be even before the war )