Omas - Who Is Really In Charge

[Seney724]

The folks over at FPG are also currently dealing with a real sh*t storm created by a "member" who is, likewise, a narcissistic, self pitying buffoon.
Over there it is not uncommon for conversations to become offensive and toxic..... but not so much here.
Hopefully if our guy does not obey his self imposed exile (or clean up his act, if he chooses to return) the Mods will ban him.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Seney724

[offbase]

I wish I had checked this thread out earlier. Lots of useful info. Thanks to everyone who shared -- even the rude guy!

[esteroids]

Sorry to be so late to this. I have a bit to add tat might be helpful.

 

In the 2000's, after selling to LVMH, the Omas family participated in a pen project called Atelier Simoni. Atelier Simoni made very few pens before closing on the premature death of it's chief designer.

 

When I first heard about Armoni Simoni Club they announced their first pen, the Harlequin. I called them before ordering asking about the name, if it was a revival of Atelier Simoni. I believe I spoke to Manu. He told me that he had licensed the name from the family for a new company.

 

Manu's ASC bought the inventory and celluloid supplies from bankruptcy. A lot of pens and some 4000 rods of celluloid. They were long rods; I don't know how many pens that is.

 

I see nothing fishy about any of this. ASC is selling ASC pens made from old Omas material just as other penmakers make pens from old Tibalbi or Conway Stewart material.

 

When Scribo first made their pen for Write it Here I inquired a bought one. They never claimed to be Omas, just some skilled craftsmen from Omas in a new company making nibs the same way. The flex broad I got is incredible.

 

As for Ancora, I have yet to see what they will produce under that name.

 

have fun

[freakman]

Sorry to be so late to this. I have a bit to add tat might be helpful.

 

In the 2000's, after selling to LVMH, the Omas family participated in a pen project called Atelier Simoni. Atelier Simoni made very few pens before closing on the premature death of it's chief designer.

 

When I first heard about Armoni Simoni Club they announced their first pen, the Harlequin. I called them before ordering asking about the name, if it was a revival of Atelier Simoni. I believe I spoke to Manu. He told me that he had licensed the name from the family for a new company.

 

Manu's ASC bought the inventory and celluloid supplies from bankruptcy. A lot of pens and some 4000 rods of celluloid. They were long rods; I don't know how many pens that is.

 

I see nothing fishy about any of this. ASC is selling ASC pens made from old Omas material just as other penmakers make pens from old Tibalbi or Conway Stewart material.

 

When Scribo first made their pen for Write it Here I inquired a bought one. They never claimed to be Omas, just some skilled craftsmen from Omas in a new company making nibs the same way. The flex broad I got is incredible.

 

As for Ancora, I have yet to see what they will produce under that name.

 

have fun

But ASC copied every design of OMAS and they didn't purchase the brand name.

The OMAS Society's full name was 'Club Internazionale della Stilografica Armando Simoni' or 'Armando Simoni Pen Club' and ASC picked a very similiar one while having no relations with the owner of the OMAS brand.

There was surely something fishy if you've read the following statements from the current OMAS owner and the liquidator.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190419222550/http://www.omas.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20180407095926/http://www.omas.com/

[Seney724]

But ASC copied every design of OMAS and they didn't purchase the brand name.

The OMAS Society's full name was 'Club Internazionale della Stilografica Armando Simoni' or 'Armando Simoni Pen Club' and ASC picked a very similiar one while having no relations with the owner of the OMAS brand.

There was surely something fishy if you've read the following statements from the current OMAS owner and the liquidator.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190419222550/http://www.omas.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20180407095926/http://www.omas.com/

Exactly!

There was nothing "fishy" about the intent to use the rods to make pens. As esteroids says, quite correctly, others have done that, too.

 

BUT:

There was a total, preconceived and thoughtful intent to deceive the pen buying public. Especially in the manner a name was selected which would confuse many by leading them to believe the pens were those of the venerable 'Club Internazionale della Stilografica Armando Simoni' and to have come from the parent Company (OMAS) itself.

 

As many posts here have well documented, over time there have been many more attempts to deceive. Not the least of which was listing a pen for sale and misstating the price. The actual purchase price was double the price they listed. The price they listed was just the down payment!!

 

All this coupled with poor communication and awful customer service. Shameful...........

Edited May 7, 2020 by Seney724

[Carrau]

I ran across a tidbit on the Ancora1919 webpage-scroll down the webpage to the section at the bottom on “Evolution" where they mention that Giovanni Santini (of Santini Pens) “assumed control" of Ancora. They go on to mention that Ancora pens are made in the company's workshop south of Milan, and continue with additional information covered previously on this thread. Santini pens are also made southwest of Milan-I wonder how that all connects together in terms of who is making what for whom?

https://ancora1919.com/history-and-production/

[mad_pharmacist]

I didn't realize this is a very "charged" topic. I love OMAS and just like many of us here, I lamented their demise. I own two Scribo pens. Its design is a bit of aquired taste. I thought their pen looked like a fat man with really tight belt. All the pens, except their limited editions, have the same shape and size. But I am used to their design. As for the writing experience, all of my Scribo pens write very very well. They make their own nibs and it's a bonus point in my book. The fit and finish are top notch and I am very pleased with my purchase.

 

I own an ASC pen and have a mixed feeling about the company not about the pen. I don't think there is anything illegal with what ASC is doing. Surely if they are violating copyright or trademark regulations and making money off of someone else's design, they would have been sued in no time. While they have not explicitly stated that they are new OMAS, they are doing everything else to claim just that. I understand that this makes some people uncomfortable. For me, the thing that bothers me is that this is a pen company that doesn't make its own pens. It has become some kind of holding company. I do have a problem with this. Ultimately it didn't prevent me from buying their pen. "Their pens" are extremely well made and beautiful. Most of their pens are over priced, but their arco pens are still cheaper than OMAS arco pens (on eBay) when directly purchased from them. There are plenty of sellers who offer discounts. I really wanted an arco pen, but I am not going to spend extra money to get an authentic OMAS arco pen. This OMAS clone is good enough for me.

[Seney724]

I own an ASC pen and have a mixed feeling about the company not about the pen. I don't think there is anything illegal with what ASC is doing. Surely if they are violating copyright or trademark regulations and making money off of someone else's design, they would have been sued in no time. While they have not explicitly stated that they are new OMAS, they are doing everything else to claim just that. I understand that this makes some people uncomfortable. For me, the thing that bothers me is that this is a pen company that doesn't make its own pens. It has become some kind of holding company. I do have a problem with this. Ultimately it didn't prevent me from buying their pen. "Their pens" are extremely well made and beautiful. Most of their pens are over priced, but their arco pens are still cheaper than OMAS arco pens (on eBay) when directly purchased from them. There are plenty of sellers who offer discounts. I really wanted an arco pen, but I am not going to spend extra money to get an authentic OMAS arco pen. This OMAS clone is good enough for me.

I agree with your thoughtful analysis. Further, I do not think anyone could find fault with the decisions which you have made for your own purchase decisions. "To each his (or her) own."

 

I do not agree that ASC's Arco pens are cheaper than authentic Omas Arco pens. I have acquired several over the past two years which, at least for me, satisfy me that I am correct in making this, perhaps, contentious statement.

 

I do think if someone wants to just point, click and own an Arco pen there is the risk of the sticker shock you describe; but, with a little bit of work and relationship building, the genuine Omas Arcos are out there at very attractive prices. Especially at the current time.

 

As for the Arco "clones" of ASC, many (but perhaps not you) have expressed considerable dissatisfaction when trying to get warranty work or non-warranty repairs / service done. The number of posts, from different members, describing the near total absence of post sales service is significant. But, I would willingly concede this is not everyone's experience.

 

What would worry me the most is what happens once all the Arco rods are gone?? My bet is the day the last Arco rod is gone is the same day that ASC is gone. At least for the authentic Omas pens there are still plenty of people around who can service them. They are very simple pens. Not so much with the ASC creations. So my question (rhetorical, of course) is given the significant failure rate of the ASC pens and the almost certain short term departure of ASC from the pen world, what is one who owns one of the Arco "clones" going to do?? They'll have their Arco pen but they will not be able to do anything but look at it.

 

I respect your approach and wish you the best with your pen. Different opinions and approaches is something from which we all learn and benefit. My opinion, which I do not expect you to share, is that the purchase of one of the ASC Arco "clones" is nothing but money down a rat hole.

[mad_pharmacist]

I guess I haven't been looking very hard and I mainly look up prices on eBay. As for the getting ASC repaired, you are correct. They don't make their pens so they can't service their pens. Mine is a piston filler so hopefully it will be easier to get it repaired locally.

 

I was thinking about ASC running out of OMAS celluloid, too. OMAS arco pens made 20-30 years ago are better in terms of esthetics and quality. No doubt about that, but then they had a lot more arco materials to select from to get the right kind of patterns. ASC doesn't really have much option and I think they are more interested in making the most money out of their OMAS stockpile.

 

 

I agree with your thoughtful analysis. Further, I do not think anyone could find fault with the decisions which you have made for your own purchase decisions. "To each his (or her) own."

 

I do not agree that ASC's Arco pens are cheaper than authentic Omas Arco pens. I have acquired several over the past two years which, at least for me, satisfy me that I am correct in making this, perhaps, contentious statement.

 

I do think if someone wants to just point, click and own an Arco pen there is the risk of the sticker shock you describe; but, with a little bit of work and relationship building, the genuine Omas Arcos are out there at very attractive prices. Especially at the current time.

 

As for the Arco "clones" of ASC, many (but perhaps not you) have expressed considerable dissatisfaction when trying to get warranty work or non-warranty repairs / service done. The number of posts, from different members, describing the near total absence of post sales service is significant. But, I would willingly concede this is not everyone's experience.

 

What would worry me the most is what happens once all the Arco rods are gone?? My bet is the day the last Arco rod is gone is the same day that ASC is gone. At least for the authentic Omas pens there are still plenty of people around who can service them. They are very simple pens. Not so much with the ASC creations. So my question (rhetorical, of course) is given the significant failure rate of the ASC pens and the almost certain short term departure of ASC from the pen world, what is one who owns one of the Arco "clones" going to do?? They'll have their Arco pen but they will not be able to do anything but look at it.

 

I respect your approach and wish you the best with your pen. Different opinions and approaches is something from which we all learn and benefit. My opinion, which I do not expect you to share, is that the purchase of one of the ASC Arco "clones" is nothing but money down a rat hole.

[Storch]

What would worry me the most is what happens once all the Arco rods are gone?? My bet is the day the last Arco rod is gone is the same day that ASC is gone. At least for the authentic Omas pens there are still plenty of people around who can service them. They are very simple pens. Not so much with the ASC creations. So my question (rhetorical, of course) is given the significant failure rate of the ASC pens and the almost certain short term departure of ASC from the pen world, what is one who owns one of the Arco "clones" going to do?? They'll have their Arco pen but they will not be able to do anything but look at it.

 

While I mostly agree, I think there are two points to consider.

 

First, it was reported that ASC bought approximately 4000 celluloid rods from Omas. Not it's not all arco, but that's still a whole lot of pens. If you tally up everything that's been done in arco post-Omas, I'd estimate they'd only gone through a couple hundred rods. Manu has outright stated on a couple youtube videos that he isn't making a lot of any given model and plans to retire off the rod stock he has. Releasing a limited edition or two every year and keeping them to less than a hundred or so pens per edition would make that seem very very reasonable.

 

The second point, and I can personally verify this from conversations with Manu at pen shows (though I have absolutely no details), it that ASC is definitely working on new materials. We have already seen the neo-Burkina that was used for the Africa model and I'm sure there are more in the works.

 

The real question is what is ASC all about. To me, and it seems a lot of people on these forums, ASC has been making the biggest most ostentatious ways to say to as large a group as possible "look at me, I have arco". Don't get me wrong, I have one and, if your goal is to showcase the arco material, there is not a better way. That said, the real fate of ASC comes when they can no longer simply be the only guy in town with arco and need to live or die on the strengths of their other offerings. So far, that does not bode well for them as their releases in other vintage Omas materials have been lackluster at best. I think it says something that a significant amount of time later, it is not at all difficult to find one of these for sale despite them being limited to only 88 pieces.

 

Finally, discounting the customer service aspect which is by no means insignificant, I think most of the problems with ASC actually stem from the pricing. Arco is expensive and you are clearly paying a premium for it but, if you look at the other ASC materials, the design of the pen itself does not even come close to justifying the price. This is obvious if you look at the secondary market where they sell for hundreds below MSRP.. So, in the end, you have an ostentatious design being sold at a premium and not adequately supported. The response to this, which should come as no surprise, is that the community would love to see a more reasonable design (more like the original paragon), at a more reasonable price (more in line with how the paragon was priced at the time), and backed by a company that really made you feel like they cared about the quality of their products (like Omas). In other words, people are peeved that ASC is not Omas and, instead of being focused on making quality writing instruments, ASC is focused on making as much money as possible while making writing instruments.

[Seney724]

 

 

I was thinking about ASC running out of OMAS celluloid, too. OMAS arco pens made 20-30 years ago are better in terms of esthetics and quality. No doubt about that, but then they had a lot more arco materials to select from to get the right kind of patterns. ASC doesn't really have much option and I think they are more interested in making the most money out of their OMAS stockpile.

 

 

To your point, just look at the pens ASC themselves have put up into a marketing / promotional photo as examples of their newly marketed Spina de Pesce Arcos.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348313-the-arco-photo-thread/page-5

 

Then take a look at a "real" Omas Spina de Pesce Arco. (Scroll half way down the page)

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/309477-omas-a-striking-pair-of-pairs/?hl=%2Bspina+%2Bpesce

 

The Omas pieces, to the one, look like they belong in a museum. Gorgeous & magnificent. The ASC, self selected, examples look, for the most part, like run of the mill Omas Arco pens.

[kazoolaw]

Perhaps, though it is hard to think of arco as "run-of-the-mill."

[DrFountainPen]

I'd imagine post arco, ASC pens can be serviced by Leonardo Officina since they were the ones who made them in the past and, if I am not mistaken, are making them currently. So there is in fact someone to take care of your pens. Lets assume that 1/3 of the rod stock is arco. That means 1300 long rods which can design upto 3 pens accounting for waste and failure rates. that means upto 2000 arco verdes and 2000 arco bronze pens.

 

Looking at the bologna numbers, I have seen numbers of 500 on some pens so they have atleast that many in both arcos. So just the initial release is 300/1300 rod stocks gone. Post bologna, they have only released limited numbers (gladiatore big and medium, and the visconti collab). Even being liberal with these releases, we can say maybe another 150 rods gone. That leaves 850 long rod x 3. That means they can make about 2500 more arco pens!

 

They are not limited. They are being artifically bottlenecked the way DeBeers controls the supply of diamonds to drive up the price. I imagine 10 years from now, most of the arco pens will be worth half that, so anyone trying to buy them as investments is in for a wicked surprise.

[Seney724]

I'd imagine post arco, ASC pens can be serviced by Leonardo Officina since they were the ones who made them in the past and, if I am not mistaken, are making them currently. So there is in fact someone to take care of your pens. Lets assume that 1/3 of the rod stock is arco. That means 1300 long rods which can design upto 3 pens accounting for waste and failure rates. that means upto 2000 arco verdes and 2000 arco bronze pens.

 

Looking at the bologna numbers, I have seen numbers of 500 on some pens so they have atleast that many in both arcos. So just the initial release is 300/1300 rod stocks gone. Post bologna, they have only released limited numbers (gladiatore big and medium, and the visconti collab). Even being liberal with these releases, we can say maybe another 150 rods gone. That leaves 850 long rod x 3. That means they can make about 2500 more arco pens!

 

They are not limited. They are being artifically bottlenecked the way DeBeers controls the supply of diamonds to drive up the price. I imagine 10 years from now, most of the arco pens will be worth half that, so anyone trying to buy them as investments is in for a wicked surprise.

You are quite right, Leonardo Officina did make the pens for ASC initially. But, they are no longer doing so........

 

So, to your point, the early Arcos made by ASC could theoretically be serviced by Leonardo Officina..... but they are under no obligation to do so. Whether they would comply with such a request is uncertain.

 

The identity of whomever is currently making the pens for ASC is being kept secret by ASC. So, it is much less clear (at least to me) as to where someone with a post Leonardo Officina produced ASC Arco would go.

 

Your "back of the envelope" calculation of the number of rods is very interesting. This is the first that I have seen someone do this and all your logic make sense. The only thing I would question is whether they could really 'eek out 3 pens per rod?? Some of their pens are pretty long in length. What do you think? If so, what impact would that have on your projected numbers??

[DrFountainPen]

You are quite right, Leonardo Officina did make the pens for ASC initially. But, they are no longer doing so........

 

So, to your point, the early Arcos made by ASC could theoretically be serviced by Leonardo Officina..... but they are under no obligation to do so. Whether they would comply with such a request is uncertain.

 

The identity of whomever is currently making the pens for ASC is being kept secret by ASC. So, it is much less clear (at least to me) as to where someone with a post Leonardo Officina produced ASC Arco would go.

 

Your "back of the envelope" calculation of the number of rods is very interesting. This is the first that I have seen someone do this and all your logic make sense. The only thing I would question is whether they could really 'eek out 3 pens per rod?? Some of their pens are pretty long in length. What do you think? If so, what impact would that have on your projected numbers??

HOW DARE YOU?! I am a fountain pen user, good sir. Its atleast a "back of the rhodia paper" calculation . If its 4 per rod, you would divide the number by 3 and then multiply by 4, so 850x4 would put you at 3000 pens more to go.

[Seney724]

HOW DARE YOU?! I am a fountain pen user, good sir. Its atleast a "back of the rhodia paper" calculation . If its 4 per rod, you would divide the number by 3 and then multiply by 4, so 850x4 would put you at 3000 pens more to go.

Ha, ha!!! Sorry!!! Rhodia it is!!!!!

 

4 per rod????? I thought all one could get from a standard size rod was either two or three pens depending upon the length of the pen??? Never having owned a rod, much less machined a pen from one of them, I cannot say for sure. But there are loads of FPN members who have; perhaps one of them could chime in??

[Storch]

Personally, I always tend to err on the conservative side when I do estimates, so I would have said 2 pens per rod but, even then, you would still be left with many more pens in the pipeline than the total of what had been produced so far. In other words, the future holds lots of marketing and hype for not a lot of pens as the slow dribble of arco continues.

[Jarod]

The OMAS Society's full name was 'Club Internazionale della Stilografica Armando Simoni' or 'Armando Simoni Pen Club' and ASC picked a very similiar one while having no relations with the owner of the OMAS brand.

Sorry to come late to the thread, but the acronym "OMAS" stands/stood for "Officina Meccanica Armando Simoni".

Edited June 6, 2020 by Jarod

[Seney724]

Sorry to come late to the thread, but the acronym "OMAS" stands/stood for "Officina Meccanica Armando Simoni".

Coming late is never a problem...... but not reading the thread before making a corrective comment is generally considered to be bad form.

Everyone here knows what the acronym OMAS stood for.....that was not what was being discussed.

 

The conversation had to do with the "Owners' Club" which OMAS created. Subsequently ASC launched itself utilizing a remarkably similar name so as to create some confusion between their pens and those which are authentic OMAS pens.

 

The "Club" which OMAS created was called the "Club Internazionale della Stilografica Armando Simoni." (Or, loosely translated, the Armando Simoni International Fountain Pen Club.)

And, then a Company which named itself "ASC," (which is short for "The Armando Simoni Club"), enters the market.

Clearly a shameless attempt to deceive.

[youstruckgold]

I am not really be surprised of any of these things happening.

When a company goes bust it does not die completely. Companies are made of people, some of them have ideas, some have skills, some have rights, some have assets, etc.

What we really want to know, and I think the OP's question should be correctly interpreted in this way (whether he is actually asking this or not), is where do all these bits and pieces go and how they fit into today's reality and also, since we are the customers (both of Omas pens, and potentially of any other valued product that may derive), who can we trust.

Admittedly I'm not trusting ASC much, I have not bought any of their post-Omas pens, despite I am attracted by the celluloids.

Essentially what seems to lack in ASC, and seems to be present in Scribo (at least as far as I can perceive) is an intrinsic love for the product.

I cannot perceive this in ASC, in the same way I could not perceive it in Martemodena, after Delta died, but I can see it in Leonardo Officina's work.

To be honest I have not yet bought a Scribo pen, but that is for another reason, I really cannot bear that steep step down barrel to section, when they get that right I'm really interested.

 

Well said. Leonardo has done beautiully and from all accounts the SCRIBO has awesome nibs. I'm just waiting for SCRIBO's shape to change then I'm in.