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Montblanc 149


meanwhile

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One thing I remember reading here before buying my 149 is that, while MB quality has suffered, the 149, being the flagship model, does not suffer from quality problems to the same extent. Most threads here on FPN would seem to confirm that.

 

Having just read dozens of posts here and elsewhere, I think that all that can be said is that the 144 was at one time extra specially bad, even as MB fountain pens went. There's no evidence of 149's having had any special treatment from MB. I suspect that being a larger diameter and heavier pen that the 146, they're somewhat more delicate.

 

Another impression I have is that the durability of the resin has improved since the 1970s and 1980s.

 

I'm afraid that I haven't seen any evidence for this. In fact, I can't see how one would gather evidence without access to MB's files. Not unnaturally, most of the pens we hear about are recent ones, bought since the spread of the Internet.

 

- Jonathan

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One thing I remember reading here before buying my 149 is that, while MB quality has suffered, the 149, being the flagship model, does not suffer from quality problems to the same extent. Most threads here on FPN would seem to confirm that.

 

Having just read dozens of posts here and elsewhere, I think that all that can be said is that the 144 was at one time extra specially bad, even as MB fountain pens went. There's no evidence of 149's having had any special treatment from MB. I suspect that being a larger diameter and heavier pen that the 146, they're somewhat more delicate.

 

Another impression I have is that the durability of the resin has improved since the 1970s and 1980s.

 

I'm afraid that I haven't seen any evidence for this. In fact, I can't see how one would gather evidence without access to MB's files. Not unnaturally, most of the pens we hear about are recent ones, bought since the spread of the Internet.

 

One can assume that a company's flagship model gets no special treatment, or one can assume that it gets none. The relative lack of problems with the 149 makes me think the former is the safer assumption.

 

Things that are larger actually usually are less delicate because of the size. It has to do with the stress distribution and basic structural mechanics. Probably that is counterintuitive. As I mentioned about stress being (inversely) proportional to the third power of diameter . . .

 

The evidence that 149s do not suffer as badly is identical to the evidence you provide: the vast majority of reported MB problems are with other pens. In fact your first post on this thread supports that idea. Unless I missed something, none of your problem reports involved modern MB 149s.

 

Scott

 

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My 1977 MB 146 is still hanging in there...never been serviced, adjusted...I have used it carefully, but it has been a good pen over all of these years. Just developing a little piston sputter now. I wouldn't buy one now, though, after all I have read of late. My favorite MBs are the lever ballpoints (280 and 380) and an old Noblesse (Mach 1) nickel steel fountain pen circa 1973, cost of $25, the anti-MB-MB.

 

I will say that the 146 F is a very smooth writer... but there are some Pelikans out there that I'm sure can do the job just as well, and at half the cost...

<i>"Most people go through life using up half their energy trying to protect a dignity they never had."</i><br>-Marlowe, in <i>The Long Goodbye</i>

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Very informative and intriguing review, Meanwhile. I've definitely noticed a solid improvement over your initial draft.

 

I agree with your overall point, that the quality level is too low for what the pen is priced at. 90% is not good enough. It is nice to see that MB makes a great pen when it hits the mark, as Lloyd experienced with his 149. Best pen ever? Even over a VP? That's impressive!

 

I guess the best opportunity is to buy vintage... get a 149 made from the mid 60's or earlier.

 

Personally, I favor the Meisterstuck 82/84 model. Beautiful design, reliable, and that wing nib is just delicious.

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

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Good review and great effort. I think the size of the pen is excellent but then again that is all subjective. I have 2 149 and 3 146s at the moment but i find myself using 90% of the time the 149. I haven't had any problems with the 149s so the quality issue as far as i am concerned is questionable. I really like using the pen and find it very comfortable. Overall i think that the 149 is a classic pen. Yeah vintage 149s are awesome, but at 1k$ minimum i think they are overpriced. There is nothing wrong with more modern ones

 

Thanks

Nikolaos

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One thing I remember reading here before buying my 149 is that, while MB quality has suffered, the 149, being the flagship model, does not suffer from quality problems to the same extent. Most threads here on FPN would seem to confirm that.

 

Having just read dozens of posts here and elsewhere, I think that all that can be said is that the 144 was at one time extra specially bad, even as MB fountain pens went. There's no evidence of 149's having had any special treatment from MB. I suspect that being a larger diameter and heavier pen that the 146, they're somewhat more delicate.

 

Another impression I have is that the durability of the resin has improved since the 1970s and 1980s.

 

I'm afraid that I haven't seen any evidence for this. In fact, I can't see how one would gather evidence without access to MB's files. Not unnaturally, most of the pens we hear about are recent ones, bought since the spread of the Internet.

 

One can assume that a company's flagship model gets no special treatment, or one can assume that it gets none. The relative lack of problems with the 149 makes me think the former is the safer assumption.

 

 

1. The 149 is an injection moulded plastic tube.

 

2. The cost of manufacturing a plastic tube is minimal. Adding more plastic only costs a few cents. However, the more plastic one adds the heavier a pen gets. This will be the effective limiting factor.

 

3. As I've stated, your assumptions are not confirmed by any actual data. Indeed, so far as I can see a trend I've seen the opposite - the large size of the 149 creates greater problems.

 

Things that are larger actually usually are less delicate because of the size. It has to do with the stress distribution and basic structural mechanics. Probably that is counterintuitive. As I mentioned about stress being (inversely) proportional to the third power of diameter . . .

 

Speaking as the possessor of a physics degree, I have to say that this argument as applied to pens is voodoo physics:

 

1. If two tubes are equal in the thickness of their walls, the stronger one will be the lesser in diameter. Anyone can easily confirm this at home with two fruit tins.

 

2. The chance of a pen containing a crack as the result of manufacturing can reasonably be expected to be proportional to the volume of plastic.

 

3. An impact stress, such as a pen will suffer in falling, has nothing to do with "the third power of the diameter". It is the product of the height fallen, the hardness of the surface impacted on, the weight of the object, the area of the object that makes contact, and the degree to which the object flexes on impact.*

 

The third power law maybe relevant to the stress experienced by, say, the stones in an arch on a bridge under load - it has absolutely nothing to do with any pen. (Unless you're planning to use 149's as load bearing components in a bridge, of course!)

 

Finally, the plastic shell of the 146/149 has an additional problem that cheaper MB's do NOT have - a hard brass piston cylinder that will have its own energy to dissipate, and which will effectively act like a hammer to smash the fragile mixture of glass fibres and perspex that makes up "precious resin".

Edited by meanwhile

- Jonathan

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Great review. In my opinion it is really surprising that a fountain pen like the 149, that's around for some decades now, still has so many problems with quality. That's exactly why I don't collect them anymore. Much lower priced and even products that cost less than an average MB nib are so much better and worth their money. For less or about the same price there are also much better products and more interesting products in the higher end market from manufacturers like Nakaya, Caran d'Ache, Pilot/Namiki or Faber Castell. There is in my opinion no good reason to buy a Plexglass pen with a gold nib that has about a value of about 1/10 of it's retailprice (with notoriuos service and a not very good warranty). Seen in a rational and objective way: the are so much better and less overpriced pens on the market. So in the end it must have all to do with marketing. And marketing is mostly about fried air (as is, in my opinion, the 149).

Edited by mr T.
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I agree with your overall point, that the quality level is too low for what the pen is priced at. 90% is not good enough...

 

No, it's not. But is is accurate? Where does this figure come from?

 

Ray

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I agree with your overall point, that the quality level is too low for what the pen is priced at. 90% is not good enough...

 

No, it's not. But is is accurate? Where does this figure come from?

 

Ray

 

From subtracting 10% (Dubiel's figure for MB's that are already cracked when they leave the factory) from 100%.

 

Of course, this assumes that the only thing that can go wrong with an MB is a body failure resulting from a crack: the real percentage of bad 'un's may be higher when one allows for problems like bad feeds, ineffective section sealing, scratchy nibs and what have you.

 

Notice, btw, that I didn't say that MB were achieving a 90% quality rate - just that such a rate, if they are achieving it - and it's the highest figure that I think Dubiel and my admittedly brief survey relative to Pelikan allow - is still unacceptable for a writing instrument.

 

MB are cushioned, of course, from the full impact of their failure rate by the fact that most of their pens are not bought to write - they're mostly sold to status stick afficiandos. Which is why there is such a disparity between "outside world" sales of fountain pens - where Pilot, Pelikan, and Sailor are barely visible and Montblanc is the dominant presence - and FPN. That doesn't mean, of course, that anyone here is buying them for such reasons. As Lloyd's story shows, a good modern MB can be still a very good pen indeed.

Edited by meanwhile

- Jonathan

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Oh, for goodness' sake. I should have known better.

 

Ray

 

Indeed, I had thought that the result of subtracting ten from one hundred was tolerably well known to be ninety...

 

It's also worth noting that the 10% figure is actually conservative compared to an FPN poll of MB users which showed that 15 out of 104 MB owning forumites had experienced "precious resin failure" when a "pen broke unexpectedly" - a term which seems to exclude pens that broke justifiably. Additional problems - faulty nibs, etc, were also reported in posts although not part of the poll data. There were of course also reports of very positive experiences with MB's - although most of these came from the same handful of happy MB users who usually make such posts.

 

I think this post by FrankB, take from the above threadm summarizes the brand's strengths and weaknesses especially well:

 

I own MB(s) that write well and never had a precious resin accident.

 

But I have witnessed two MB precious resin acidents, and heard narratives from three more. All five were dropped from various heights, all five shattered like glass. Hence, I use my MB 146 and 149 exclusively at home. My 146 was pre-owned and has some deep scratches on the end of the barrel where it was posted.

 

I also have three Noblesse FP's from the late 1970's, all of which have differing metal caps and barrels. These pens are not fragile, and I have carried all three of them at one time or another. But they are very thin pens, hence I do not use them for extended writing.

 

All five of my MB's write very well. Both my 149 and 146 have customized stub nibs that I enjoy using very much. I have had no leaks, ink blots or smears.

 

The 149 was given to me as a gift new in the box. All my others were pre-owned. I will not myself pay full retail for a MB as I am among those who disdain MB's pretense. Other than the five I have, I cannot see myself buying any more. I don't care to push my luck with this brand, and there are just too many other good pens available to focus on MB's.

 

 

 

 

 

- Jonathan

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Nevermind

Ray

 

 

Umm, ok, I won't...

 

Which is probably what I would have done anyway if you hadn't posted, of course. Each to their own!

 

Edited to add a much wittier reply:

"Nevermind!" Quoth the Ray-man;

Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to inking..

Edited by meanwhile

- Jonathan

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I have a hard time seeing how the problem reports are fair, when speaking about the MB 149. Here's why:

 

The first is an MB Generation, not the same pen.

 

The second is a retractable nib FP, even more not the same pen.

 

The third is a 146, not the same pen.

 

The fourth is a gold 149, with a report of a "Meisterstuck" of unknown model which cracked after work in Somoa in 1978. So, not the same pen x2.

 

Then there is a complaint about leaking in an extremely corroded pen (should be expected?) followed by another 146 complaint about ink flow. Neither of these can necessarily be attributed to the pens themselves -- might be the ink, for example.

 

I don't really see any of those as valid criticisms of modern 149s. The reasons 146 complaints are not entirely good substitutes are 1) the 149 is the flagship model, not the 146, and 2) the 146 is smaller and thus will have higher stresses in the pen material, presumably causing more cracking etc. Likewise for the ballpoint cracking.

Scott

 

Scott...

If I read the post and the review correctly, the author had widened the discussion at that point out to include the quality issue of MONTBLANC as a whole--with the juxtaposition to PELS as a marque and OTHER MARQUES as entities. Hence there was apples to apples...in this case marque to marque.

 

Well, I correct myself...Lifestyle icon to actual writing implemets. "Close enough" Quote is John Savage to Bettina Huxley in DEMOLITION MAN.

 

Which brings up a question--germaine to the conversation...

 

We know that Raymond Couceau would have used a Montblanc

And we know that Simon Phoenix used a Rotring 600 (he took Warden William Smithers' eye out to use it for retina scan security)

What FP would John Savage have used? I, for one, DO NOT think he would have used a Montblanc. P51 probably.

 

Bill..free associating on the USA's day celebrating Independence...from mostly the Hessian mercenaries...the progeny of which now make MB FPs trying to enslave us again...

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I think maligning these pens is a hobby for some of you guys. :)

 

Scott

 

 

Not sure, Scott, but I think acting as apologists for Montblanc is a full-time job for a lot more of you guys :rolleyes:

 

Bill

 

PS --- take a REALLY GOOD LOOK at my slug line...

Edited by paircon01
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I have a hard time seeing how the problem reports are fair, when speaking about the MB 149. Here's why:

 

The first is an MB Generation, not the same pen.

 

The second is a retractable nib FP, even more not the same pen.

 

The third is a 146, not the same pen.

 

The fourth is a gold 149, with a report of a "Meisterstuck" of unknown model which cracked after work in Somoa in 1978. So, not the same pen x2.

 

Then there is a complaint about leaking in an extremely corroded pen (should be expected?) followed by another 146 complaint about ink flow. Neither of these can necessarily be attributed to the pens themselves -- might be the ink, for example.

 

I don't really see any of those as valid criticisms of modern 149s. The reasons 146 complaints are not entirely good substitutes are 1) the 149 is the flagship model, not the 146, and 2) the 146 is smaller and thus will have higher stresses in the pen material, presumably causing more cracking etc. Likewise for the ballpoint cracking.

Scott

 

Scott...

If I read the post and the review correctly, the author had widened the discussion at that point out to include the quality issue of MONTBLANC as a whole--with the juxtaposition to PELS as a marque and OTHER MARQUES as entities.

 

Exactly. It's hard enough getting data on the brands as a whole as it is. Restricting to a single pen for each would have made it almost impossible. I would probably have had to search a year or more's FPN content to get a couple of faulty M800's. MB's pens are made in the same factory and overwhelmingly of the same plastic. If anything, the comparison was unfair to Pel, whose score was pulled down by their low end pens. Otoh, they were still well ahead, and I wanted to show that I had given MB every possible break.

 

 

- Jonathan

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I have to say, with no intended disrespect, that I have my doubts about Mr. Dubiel's quantitative estimate of MB's quality. I'm sure he examined many FPs but I seriously doubt if he examined even 1000 MB149's under his loupe AND, if he did, I doubt they were a representative sampling; they would (most likely) have been brought to him with other defects. When would he sit and analyze several thousand brand new MB149s? Most owners keep them (inked or uninked) and send them to MB if they need service.

Edited by Lloyd

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Thanks for the review and all other posts and opinions in this thread.

Readings made me definitely sure - today, the fifth of July 2007 is the day. Finally I´am going to afford myself a brand new Montblanc Meisterstuck 149. Yes, I am going to pay for it over 500 EUR. Yes, I know that they are some quality problems and that a lot of you just thinking I am crazy. No, I am not rich, it will cost me app. 30% of my month income. No, I am not a snob, the pen will be used only at home, I will not expose myself with the white star. For daily writers there are my unique VP, L2K, and a pair of pels 200.

I just want to have classic designed pen in my collection and no other OS pens in this price rang did not satisfed me. More, a lot of them are extremly ugly. For me the shape of 149 is perfect. So it goes.

 

I know, maybe I will be disappointed if some problems will occur, but - it is my own and subjective decision - like the majority of pro et contra MB opinions are.

 

Now (my wife is just awakening and she is going to drive me to the local MB dealer), let the god helps me on my Way of the cross :rolleyes:

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I have to say, with no intended disrespect, that I have my doubts about Mr. Dubiel's quantitative estimate of MB's quality. I'm sure he examined many FPs but I seriously doubt if he examined even 1000 MB149's under his loupe AND, if he did, I doubt they were a representative sampling; they would (most likely) have been brought to him with other defects. When would he sit and analyze several thousand brand new MB149s? Most owners keep them (inked or uninked) and send them to MB if they need service.

 

From my newsgroup research:

 

Dubiel did NOT rely on pens brought to him to repair - he was much too smart for this. He apparently travelled around visiting MB boutiques.

 

I don't know if he did look at 1000 pens through his notorious 50x loupe. It certainly isn't impossible for a determined man over a period of years - and Dubiel was determined, and did pursue reearch into pens for decades. On the other hand I don't think that large a sample would have been necessary to say that there was a significant problem, if the sample was constructed well - which would mean in a way that removed variables like the particular store and batch lots.

 

All the data we have available comes from samples that are too small. But the interesting thing is that it all - the FPN breakage poll, my "Week of Failure" analysis - points to a failure rate for MB's that is, rough order of magnitude, 10%.

Edited by meanwhile

- Jonathan

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