Jump to content

Recommendations For Dry Permanent Inks


loganrah

Recommended Posts

I've got a few pens that I find to be overly wet, and I notice that more permanent inks tend to be very wet. Unfortunately I really want to use these pens with some permanent inks. So I'm looking for recommendations for permanent inks (waterproof and light fast, I'm not worried about forgery etc.) that are relatively dry, and hopefully not too much of a hassle to clean.

I'm particularly interested in browns and teals/petrol blues, but any recommendations are welcome.

I haven't tried them yet but I've been eyeing off the De Atramentis Document inks for a while, especially because they can be blended to make colours I like. Can anyone comment on how dry/wet these are?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 20
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • loganrah

    4

  • Eclipse157

    3

  • A Smug Dill

    2

  • Mongoosey

    2

There are only a few inks I can think of that would qualify as nearly waterproof, as in if you dunk the page (or the whole notebook) into a bucket of water nothing much would happen, no colour would come off the inky marks. Being water-resistant and still legible after prolonged soaking is a different matter.

 

I don't think iron-gall inks generally have a reputation for being lightfast.

 

So, I second LizEF's suggestion of Sailor souboku, which is far more waterproof than Sailor kiwaguro. Platinum Carbon Black is waterproof, but I don't think it's "dry".

 

I included nine sample vials of Sailor souboku in the Australian FPN pass-around box initially, so I hope you took one of those before passing it on.

Edited by A Smug Dill

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are only a few inks I can think of that would qualify as nearly waterproof, as in if you dunk the page (or the whole notebook) into a bucket of water nothing much would happen, no colour would come off the inky marks. Being water-resistant and still legible after prolonged soaking is a different matter.

 

I don't think iron-gall inks generally have a reputation for being lightfast.

 

So, I second LizEF's suggestion of Sailor souboku, which is far more waterproof than Sailor kiwaguro. Platinum Carbon Black is waterproof, but I don't think it's "dry".

 

I included nine sample vials of Sailor souboku in the Australian FPN pass-around box initially, so I hope you took one of those before passing it on.

I guess I should be more careful with my words: when I say waterproof with respect to ink I generally just mean that I don't need to worry about accidental moisture exposure or a minor spill or two. I definitely don't expect any ink to survive full submersion. And I am interested only in legibility in this regard, if the colour goes that doesn't worry me.

 

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

 

Platinum Carbon Black is one of the ones I was thinking of that is far too wet for my taste. It is amazingly water resistant/proof, but it just gushes onto the page. I guess a secondary factor I should think about is the difference between wetness in terms of volume of ink going onto the page, and wetness in terms of propensity to spread and bleed through etc. I'm concerned with the latter rather than the former.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

 

IG inks are "safe". Even the old school variants like ESSRI and Diamine Registrars are not going to damage your pen.

 

The whole FUD thing around them is pretty laughable when you consider how long they have been used with fountain pens.

 

Even if they do dry out in a pen, you can flush the particulate matter out with ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

 

You want a great, permanent dry ink: Diamine Registrars, Akkerman #10 Ijzer-Galotnen, R&K Salix (or Scabiosa for a different colour). If you want a wetter experience, KWZ...

Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  1. Sailor Souboku (Not as dry flowing as Kiwa-Guro, but it's color benefits greatly from a wetter pen)
  2. R&K Salix

  3. R&K Scabiosa (I'm a brown ink fan and this is one I love, especially in a wet pen I feel it requires to bring out its potential)
  4. Sailor Kiwa-Guro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

R&K IG are indeed dry but faders, Sailor pigments inks do not fade.

Seeking a Parker Duofold Centennial cap top medallion/cover/decal.
My Mosaic Black Centennial MK2 lost it (used to have silver color decal).

Preferably MK2. MK3 or MK1 is also OK as long as it fits.  
Preferably EU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also not sure how I feel about iron-gall inks in regards to maintenance. I know the modern ones are less of a problem than older ones, but if there are safer options I'd prefer to try those out first.

I'd go against the grain of what seems to be common sentiment in the forum, and say (pens that are filled with) iron-gall inks require no more maintenance than solely dye-based inks.

 

In a pen on which the cap is effective in sealing the nib and feed against ink evaporation, iron-gall inks are not any more apt to dry out when the pen is unused; and, (especially) if the pen has a "solid" gold (alloy) nib, or a modern steel nib that isn't already compromised, the acidity of the ink isn't something the user needs to combat or ward against with more diligent maintenance.

 

In a pen that is not effective in preventing ink evaporation when capped and unused, saturated dye-based inks are just as likely to cause the user grief through by clogging the feed, collector and/or inside of the filling mechanism if allowed to dry out.

 

So, to me, it's more of a question about the quality and fitness of the pen than the type of "for fountain pen use" ink with which it is filled. I have no appetite or "compassion" for pens don't seal well, whether it's modern or vintage. Even my beloved Pilot Capless raden Vanishing Point pens try my patience, and I rarely ink them these days.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. I've ordered a couple of iron gall inks and some sailor pigment ones to try out.

 

A follow up question: is there any worry using Kodak photo flo in any of these inks? I have a big bottle and have used it in the past to make some standard dye based inks wetter with good results. And I figure it is easier to get an ink that is a bit too dry and make it wetter than to go the other way. Of course I always start with a sample vial, but I'm just wondering if there is any known problems with adding photo flo to iron gall or pigment inks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not familiar with the chemistry of photo flo, but just to besure follow the standard safety procedure of mixing in a separate vial and let decant for a few days before filling a pen.

 

Also curious about why ask for dry inks and then making them wetter... there are permanent inks that are already wetter than iron gall inks, like Noodler's whole bulletproof assortment, and pigment inks... I have a few R&K Sketchinks, which are permanent, waterproof and pigmented, and they do flow more readily than R&K iron galls...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can also look into Platinum's Classic Blacks line, e.g., Classic Citrus /Cassis /Khaki /Forest /Lavender /Sepia Black, and also Platinum and Pelikan Blue-Black, are IG inks, and reputed to be rather dry and non-lubricating.

 

I think the concept of wet and dry is very subjective and there is not a clear criteria that we all agree on. I find Sailor's pigment inks actually quite wet.

 

I completely agree that the Platinum Classic Black line ideally dry as is the Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, which is probably the driest ink of them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With respect to pigmented ‘document’ inks, in the reviews on here at least one reviewer stated that the De Atramentis pigmented inks were quite ‘wet’ in comparison the Rohrer & Klingner ones. R&K offer their pigmented inks in several colours.

But, you need to bear in mind that pigmented inks are also thought to require as much attention to maintenance (e.g. DON’T let them dry out in your pen!) as iron-gall inks do.

 

For less-fussy, dye-based, inks that are reputed to be ‘dry’, Pelikan’s 4001 range are ‘dry’ (because the company’s pens ‘write wet’).

They also offer inks in varying degrees of water resistance and lightfastness.

See this page on their website for details.

 

I suspect that 4001 ‘Brilliant Black’ might suit your needs, and am almost certain that 4001 Blue-Black will.
Pelikan ‘Fount India’ is what some people nowadays might call a carbon ‘nano particle’ ink. Others include Sailor Kiwa Guro and Platinum Carbon Black (which you don’t like).

 

For an extremely ’dry’ ink there’s Diamine Registrars Ink (iron-gall).
Slightly less dry is ESS Registrars Ink (iron-gall ink, defined as ‘permanent’ by the UK government, and is recommend by HMG for official use by our Registrars of births, marriages and deaths). Those are both blue-blacks. In a wet pen they cure on the page from blue to black.
Iron-gall inks are famous for not showing line-spread or feathering or bleedthrough.

Whichever of the inks recommended to you by the contributors to this thread piques your interest, I advise you to head over to the ‘Ink Reviews’ board here, and to look for as many reviews of it that you can.

Different people find different things to be ‘deal-breakers’, and different reviewers will highlight different things about the same ink. After all, only you can decide which ink comes the closest to meeting all of your personal preferences.

 

Good luck :thumbup:

Edited by Mercian

Foul in clear conditions, but handsome in the fog.

mini-postcard-exc.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also curious about why ask for dry inks and then making them wetter... there are permanent inks that are already wetter than iron gall inks, like Noodler's whole bulletproof assortment, and pigment inks...

 

The reason I'm interested in this is to dial in the wetness well. I find most permanent inks (at least the ones I've tried) are too wet. So I want to try some drier permanent inks.

 

But if those inks are too dry then I figure it is easier to add wetness to those than try and make the wet inks drier.

Basically:

Too Dry + Photo Flo > Just Right

 

is easier than

Too Wet + ??? > Just Right

 

Especially since I'm not even sure what fills in the ???. Adding (distilled) water to an ink makes it drier, but it also changes the colour and other properties. Whereas the amount of photo flo you have to add is extremely small (

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The reason I'm interested in this is to dial in the wetness well. I find most permanent inks (at least the ones I've tried) are too wet. So I want to try some drier permanent inks.

 

But if those inks are too dry then I figure it is easier to add wetness to those than try and make the wet inks drier.

Basically:

Too Dry + Photo Flo > Just Right

 

is easier than

Too Wet + ??? > Just Right

 

Especially since I'm not even sure what fills in the ???. Adding (distilled) water to an ink makes it drier, but it also changes the colour and other properties. Whereas the amount of photo flo you have to add is extremely small (

This actually makes a lot of sense, thank you for explaining.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing I don't like about PhotoFlo is that along with increasing wetness, it also increases line width.

 

That may not matter, but sometimes it's quite a significant addition to the line width by the time you get the ink flowing properly.

 

But it works out for some people.

 

I'm personally someone who avoids tinkering. If I have to tinker with an ink or pen besides basic nib alignment or an easy nib swap at most, I avoid it, return it, or don't use it lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised no one mentioned Montblanc Permanent Blue or Montblanc Blue-Black. Since you are going to use the ink on an MB pen, those should be obvious suggestions.

Edited by txomsy

If you are to be ephemeral, leave a good scent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33494
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26624
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...