Pelikan 4001 Blue Black

[silverlifter]

Corniche: “apparently the dyes used in it, (which I believe are the reason for its ban here), don't age gracefully:”

 

Yea, I’m having that problem myself these days as well.

 

Well, if one has to choose between going grey and the alternative...

[Erik Dalton]

There is something distinguished about turning gray. Now graceful, that’s a whole other matter...hehehe

[Anderglan]

There is something distinguished about turning gray. Now graceful, that’s a whole other matter...hehehe

Well, just a couple of days ago, I was experiencing my children's Great-Great-Aunt calling me becoming grey...

[The Good Captain]

Living in the UK I just get my supplies from down the road.

HUZZAH!

[corniche]

Living in the UK I just get my supplies from down the road.

HUZZAH!

Sure, brag about it,... see if I care!

 

Sean

[corniche]

I'm using it in a Preppy felt-tip; not so dry in that medium. 👍

 

Sean

[migla9]

Do you guys (and women) remember years ago when there appears to be two different versions of this ink. One a deep blue the other dries to gray. I got some of the gray stuff in cartridge and bottle. Hated it. Then i got the German version of the ink and it was back to nicely saturated dark blue ink.

I did not know then and still have no idea how to tell which ink will be gray and which will be dark blue. I just happened to be over there at the time so I stocked up.

Does anybody have the answer to this riddle?

[migla9]

See the same article mentioned above https://thepelikansperch.com/2016/04/20/pelikan-4001-blue-black-story/

 

In particular, see my comments at the end (May 2, 2016) with sample swabs and pictures of two bottles, one gray and one blue. The eBay vendor in California checked her inventory from the same batch - most were bluish, but some were gray.

[SchaumburgSwan]

 

Do you guys (and women) remember years ago when there appears to be two different versions of this ink. One a deep blue the other dries to gray. I got some of the gray stuff in cartridge and bottle. Hated it. Then i got the German version of the ink and it was back to nicely saturated dark blue ink.

I did not know then and still have no idea how to tell which ink will be gray and which will be dark blue. I just happened to be over there at the time so I stocked up.

Does anybody have the answer to this riddle?

 

 

Hi,

 

it is prone to fade/discolor when stored too long. Light and oxygen don't make 4001 BB better.

I have 20 year old catridges being gray and two year old bottles giving a nice blue-black.

It's a great ink, but not with that much reserves as a darker/stronger IG ink like ESSRI...

 

Best

Jens

[bokaba]

I did some writing with the Pelikan Blue Black in a flex nib and the ink oxidized to almost entirely black much like Salix and Diamine Registrars.

 

[The Good Captain]

Sure, brag about it,... see if I care!

 

Sean

[Cassotto]

When I was at school (in the eighties), I used to ask for "blue" cartridges at the local stationer's. They gave six-cartridge boxes of two very different colours (why they gave me one or the other, I don't know). Back then, I didn't pay lots of attention to the brands or the name of the colours. It's only now that I've thought they might be selling me blue and blue black cartridges. Of the two, one was a "normal" blue, and the other a greyish blue (or even a bluish grey) with very light green overtones (which might be due to the yellowish paper below), which looked distinguished to me, as it was clearly different from the colour I got from most ball point pens.

 

Some months ago I bought a bottle of Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, thinking it might be the ink I remember (there were only a couple of brands that were commonly sold here, and Pelikan was one of them, the other being Inoxcrom). What I have found is some sort of dark blue, but not the greyish ink I was looking for. Now I wonder whether the formulation has changed over the years, or it was a matter of the cartridges having been stored for too long. The ink was greyish from the beginning (I didn't have to wait for long to see it happen). I've found a couple of people selling old bottles, and I think I'll buy one and see what happens.

[Safari_Camo]

Here is some information in another related post about the date stamped on the Pelikan ink boxes

[Cassotto]

Thanks! But that seems to refer to a recent batch.

 

Anyway, I've already ordered one old bottle from the eighties. I wonder whether it'll be the colour I remember, or maybe it'll have changed with time. Or it might even happen that the ink in the cartridges and the bottles wasn't the same colour.

 

Funny, thinking that I used to life a defective ink!

[inkstainedruth]

Do you guys (and women) remember years ago when there appears to be two different versions of this ink. One a deep blue the other dries to gray. I got some of the gray stuff in cartridge and bottle. Hated it. Then i got the German version of the ink and it was back to nicely saturated dark blue ink.

I did not know then and still have no idea how to tell which ink will be gray and which will be dark blue. I just happened to be over there at the time so I stocked up.

Does anybody have the answer to this riddle?

 

I remember that. I seem to remember some discussion about the formula having changed. And that was a separate issue from it not being available in the US (I joined here in 2012, and that was after the US banned it).

But then, I can no longer get Quink Permanent Blue in the US (similar issue, IIRC). I tried to order some from an eBay vendor in the UK, only to be told that they couldn't ship it out of the country....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Ink Sandwich]

I'm curious what your experiences are regarding fading?

 

Just a couple of days ago I found a package of (I think) wellstored iron gall Pelikan 4001 Blue Black cartridges that have been bought three or four years ago, and despite they have never been exposed sunlight, the ink is completely grey... (...but of course I have no idea how long they've been at the stationer's, maybe a decade or even longer; there's no "www.pelikan.com" on the package).

 

Same experience here. I assume it's because cartridges are not really that airtight, so the ink in cartridges slowly starts to deteriorate.

 

On a sidenote: Where did you get your blue-black cartridges from? I bought them occasionally, but I haven't seen them in stores here for years ...

[Anderglan]

On a sidenote: Where did you get your blue-black cartridges from? I bought them occasionally, but I haven't seen them in stores here for years ...

^^ PM sent

[TheDutchGuy]

 

Same experience here. I assume it's because cartridges are not really that airtight, so the ink in cartridges slowly starts to deteriorate.

 

On a sidenote: Where did you get your blue-black cartridges from? I bought them occasionally, but I haven't seen them in stores here for years ...

 

 

Recently I ordered two boxes of tall P4001 BB cartridges from Appelboom, because I needed to be hospitalized for surgery and in my naive state of mind I’d expected to do lots of writing during recovery. Well, as it turns out I didn’t write a single thing so I still have those boxes lying around.

 

 

To compare cartridge and bottle, I made a direct comparison:

 

 

I always have trouble to accurately reflect the ink’s true colours in a photo, so I included the well-known Rhodia yellow as a reference point. The tissue- and smear-tests are very, very similar. Written text is more blue with ink from the bottle, but that’s mostly because of the pen (a wet ‘50s semi-flex with ebonite feed). The other pen, an ‘80s Elysée with a fat M nib, smears out the ink into a broad line whereas the ‘50s pen leaves a ‘rope’ of ink on the page which looks more saturated.

 

Without saturation, both bottle and cartridge turn grey as the ink dries on the page.

[cgreenberg19]

Nice! in my experience it only takes a little while for the iron gall to show and for the ink to turn a grey color.

[tinta]

Hi Everyone,

 

Pelikan Blue-Black was taken off the market in the U.S. in 2011; not because it contains iron gall, but because it no longer complies with the TSCA guidelines.

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2016/04/20/pelikan-4001-blue-black-story/

 

I was still active here at the time and remember the furor this caused.

I imported mine in from overseas.

 

 

Sean

 

ETA: So you don't have to read through the entire story; here is the relevant passage:

 

Unfortunately, 4001 Blue-Black is not available in the United States and has not been since around 2011. The reason for this now 5 year absence is in part due to the fact that the ink includes an ingredient(s) that is not listed in the United States Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA). That act stipulates that any chemical substance, mixture, or article containing a chemical substance or mixture (including microorganisms and mixtures) may be refused entry [into the United States] if it fails to comply with the TSCA, or is offered for entry in violation of section 5, 6, or 7 of the TSCA. EPA and Customs Regulations (40 CFR 707.20 and 19 CFR 12.120, respectively) require that importers certify that imported chemical substances or mixtures are either in compliance with TSCA sections 5, 6 and 7 at the time of import or are not subject to the TSCA. Penalties for failing to comply can be steep. It has been presumed that 4001 Blue-Black contains a substance not amongst the approved chemicals as outlined by the TSCA. While exclusion from that list doesnt necessarily imply toxicity, I suppose that it made more economic sense for Pelikan to discontinue its United States sales rather than reformulate their ink. There is no such prohibition of this formulation overseas where it is still readily available.

Thank you for the link & the read. Thanks also to the OP for reviewing this ink.

I too have followed many a discussion as to why our distributor Chartpac does not list this ink for North America (Canada included). Whether it has any ferrogallic content or not. Cult pens in the UK (no affiliation) have been my regular source for both bottled (small & large) & carts, (long & short.)

 

No matter what, this fine ink continues to be one of my favourite blue/blacks. I often use it to slow down my enthusiastic fire-hose pens.